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Thread: Pump won't move any water

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    dayhiker's Avatar
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    Pump won't move any water

    I posted the info below to an existing thread about solar. I thought I'd repost here since it seems like more of a pump/filter issue.



    OK, so I have all of the plumbing in to make the pool operational again, but don't have the panels hooked up. I did take the top off of my cartridge filter, which I'd never done before, to make sure my new plumbing wouldn't interfere with it's removal. I decided that now was a good time to check and make sure the pool still worked. It doesn't.

    When I turn on the pump, nothing happens. No bubbles in the pool for the incoming water, nothing. When I look at the pump I can see about 4" of air in the basket. This is after letting the cartridge refill and closing it off when the water comes out. I don't have my camera cable with me or I'd post a pic in case anything jumps out. I wondered if maybe the main 3-way valve was leaking a little even though no water was coming out or no air, so I went ahead and glued the cutoff valve in place and retried. Nada. The only thing I noticed was at one of the returns it made a small ripple in the pool from attempting to suck.

    I guess this means I'm sucking air from somewhere, but water isn't coming out any of the fittings. I'm still pretty new to all of this and don't know all of the signs to look for. My guess is that one of the 3 threaded fittings out of the filter, into the SWG, or out of the SWG are leaking.

    Any advice? Could something else be a cause? I did trip the 3-way to see what would happen and shot water out as if water were being diverted to the panels. That rules out the check valve being in backwards even though I've checked that about 10x.

    I'm concerned that I shouldn't really proceed any further with the solar install until this problem is solved.

    Thanks.

    Photos:

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/85659721@N ... 522083093/

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/85659721@N ... 522083093/
    The avatar is Spalding from Caddyshack
    18x36 vinyl IG - approximately 24000 gal
    Jandy SHPM1.5 Pump (1.5 HP); Jandy APURE 1400 SWG; Polaris PB4-60Q Booster Pump; Jandy CL340 Cartridge Filter
    (3) 4'x12' Aquatherm solar panels
    Next project, pump sound enclosure and lots of pool landscaping [6tons of stone 8) funnnn]

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    frustratedpoolmom's Avatar
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    Re: Pump won't move any water

    The basket has to be filled with water to prime the pump. You should have the filter housing closed and locked before you turn on the pump. You open the air release valve at the top of the filter and bleed out all of the air until water comes out from the opening (duck, you will get wet.) shut the pump off, tighten the air release valve, turn the pump back on.
    Helpful links: Pool School; CYA/Chlorine Chart
    24' round AG pool, 52" high, Raypak heater; Waterway 2 spd Pump;
    150 Sq ft. Clearwater Cartridge Filter; Former and DISSATISFIED "Pool Frog" owner
    http://www.PerfectlyClearPoolService.com

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    dayhiker's Avatar
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    Re: Pump won't move any water

    I'll try putting water in the basket. Water is coming out of the valve on top of the filter, I shut it, and still nothing though.

    I'll report back in 5 minutes.
    The avatar is Spalding from Caddyshack
    18x36 vinyl IG - approximately 24000 gal
    Jandy SHPM1.5 Pump (1.5 HP); Jandy APURE 1400 SWG; Polaris PB4-60Q Booster Pump; Jandy CL340 Cartridge Filter
    (3) 4'x12' Aquatherm solar panels
    Next project, pump sound enclosure and lots of pool landscaping [6tons of stone 8) funnnn]

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    dayhiker's Avatar
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    Re: Pump won't move any water

    I've had the hose in the basket for a few minutes and the water elevation hasn't changed. Does this mean I've shoved tons of air in the system and that it'll just take a while for the basket to fill?
    The avatar is Spalding from Caddyshack
    18x36 vinyl IG - approximately 24000 gal
    Jandy SHPM1.5 Pump (1.5 HP); Jandy APURE 1400 SWG; Polaris PB4-60Q Booster Pump; Jandy CL340 Cartridge Filter
    (3) 4'x12' Aquatherm solar panels
    Next project, pump sound enclosure and lots of pool landscaping [6tons of stone 8) funnnn]

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    frustratedpoolmom's Avatar
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    Re: Pump won't move any water

    I don't know. This is a puzzle. It could be flowing back down the line into the pool. Are you certain all the valves are open or in their proper position?
    Helpful links: Pool School; CYA/Chlorine Chart
    24' round AG pool, 52" high, Raypak heater; Waterway 2 spd Pump;
    150 Sq ft. Clearwater Cartridge Filter; Former and DISSATISFIED "Pool Frog" owner
    http://www.PerfectlyClearPoolService.com

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    frustratedpoolmom's Avatar
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    Re: Pump won't move any water

    maybe try closing the valves, filling the basket, securing the lid, then reopen the valves?

    I'm sorry I'm guessing here based on your pics. I don't know what else to suggest, none of our equipment guru's are logged on....
    Helpful links: Pool School; CYA/Chlorine Chart
    24' round AG pool, 52" high, Raypak heater; Waterway 2 spd Pump;
    150 Sq ft. Clearwater Cartridge Filter; Former and DISSATISFIED "Pool Frog" owner
    http://www.PerfectlyClearPoolService.com

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    dayhiker's Avatar
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    Re: Pump won't move any water

    Still filling. It must be going in the pool. I'll close the valves and report back.
    The avatar is Spalding from Caddyshack
    18x36 vinyl IG - approximately 24000 gal
    Jandy SHPM1.5 Pump (1.5 HP); Jandy APURE 1400 SWG; Polaris PB4-60Q Booster Pump; Jandy CL340 Cartridge Filter
    (3) 4'x12' Aquatherm solar panels
    Next project, pump sound enclosure and lots of pool landscaping [6tons of stone 8) funnnn]

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    dayhiker's Avatar
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    Re: Pump won't move any water

    I closed all 3 valves. The basket started filling. When it was totally full I closed the cover. I opened the valve on the filter. I turned the pump on and then opened the 3 valves. The water immediately dropped in the basket. It's dropping to the bottom elevation of the line that runs into the basket.
    The avatar is Spalding from Caddyshack
    18x36 vinyl IG - approximately 24000 gal
    Jandy SHPM1.5 Pump (1.5 HP); Jandy APURE 1400 SWG; Polaris PB4-60Q Booster Pump; Jandy CL340 Cartridge Filter
    (3) 4'x12' Aquatherm solar panels
    Next project, pump sound enclosure and lots of pool landscaping [6tons of stone 8) funnnn]

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    Re: Pump won't move any water

    Dude, you've gotta warn folks when you post pics like that :P - my wife asked if I was having a heart attack when I clicked on the first pic 8)

    What you want to do is close 2 of the suction valves to prime the pump and then SLOWLY open another one and the third one.

    If your system is elevated (like over 5' above the pools water level) you MAY have to wrap a rag around the garden hose and stick it into the skimmer port that's valve is open at the filter [you want to have someone keep a hold on the rag so it doesn't get sucked in when the pump primes 8) ]

    I'll wait for your response before trying to give you more tips on 'how to prime a hard to prime pump'
    Luv& Luk
    -Ted

    Having done construction and service for 4 pool companies in 4 states starting in 1988, what I know about pools could fill a couple of books - what I don't know could fill a couple of libraries :-D

    POOL SCHOOL, TF Testkits, Jason's Pool Calculator, CYA vs. cl chart, (Just a few DARNED handy links!)

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    dayhiker's Avatar
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    Re: Pump won't move any water

    I closed all 3, filled it up, turned on the pump and then slowly opened one of the valves. The water dropped.

    Let me make sure I haven't made a very elementary mistake. The water goes into the pump from the 3 valves I've shown, it goes through the pump, into the filter, out of the filter, and out into the system. I put my check valves oriented based on that flow.
    The avatar is Spalding from Caddyshack
    18x36 vinyl IG - approximately 24000 gal
    Jandy SHPM1.5 Pump (1.5 HP); Jandy APURE 1400 SWG; Polaris PB4-60Q Booster Pump; Jandy CL340 Cartridge Filter
    (3) 4'x12' Aquatherm solar panels
    Next project, pump sound enclosure and lots of pool landscaping [6tons of stone 8) funnnn]

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    dayhiker's Avatar
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    Re: Pump won't move any water

    I tried it again. I turned on the pump then opened one valve, then two, then three. The valve on the top of the filter immediately spit water. The water elevation in the basket is above the pipe inflow. When I opened the valves it dropped and then went back up again. I can see a leaf floating in there less than an inch from the cover, so it's essentially full. The leaf is floating and not swirling though so water is not moving in the pump cover.
    The avatar is Spalding from Caddyshack
    18x36 vinyl IG - approximately 24000 gal
    Jandy SHPM1.5 Pump (1.5 HP); Jandy APURE 1400 SWG; Polaris PB4-60Q Booster Pump; Jandy CL340 Cartridge Filter
    (3) 4'x12' Aquatherm solar panels
    Next project, pump sound enclosure and lots of pool landscaping [6tons of stone 8) funnnn]

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    dayhiker's Avatar
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    Re: Pump won't move any water

    PS, which photo gave you a heart attack?
    The avatar is Spalding from Caddyshack
    18x36 vinyl IG - approximately 24000 gal
    Jandy SHPM1.5 Pump (1.5 HP); Jandy APURE 1400 SWG; Polaris PB4-60Q Booster Pump; Jandy CL340 Cartridge Filter
    (3) 4'x12' Aquatherm solar panels
    Next project, pump sound enclosure and lots of pool landscaping [6tons of stone 8) funnnn]

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    dayhiker's Avatar
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    Re: Pump won't move any water

    I read this:
    pool-school/pool_circulation_system

    It said the main cause for a pump not priming is a leak on the intake side. What is the intake side? That sounds like water going in to the pump and I haven't messed with any of that. Those are all glued connections. Everything that I've changed has been between the outgoing filter line and the line going to the returns. Would a leak here prevent the priming of the pump or would it be more like a water leak. I'm not seeing any water leaks. This morning I'm going to get rid of all of the debris on the equipment pad and try to dry it off with a leaf blower. Maybe this will help leaks show up.

    I'm still totally baffled.
    The avatar is Spalding from Caddyshack
    18x36 vinyl IG - approximately 24000 gal
    Jandy SHPM1.5 Pump (1.5 HP); Jandy APURE 1400 SWG; Polaris PB4-60Q Booster Pump; Jandy CL340 Cartridge Filter
    (3) 4'x12' Aquatherm solar panels
    Next project, pump sound enclosure and lots of pool landscaping [6tons of stone 8) funnnn]

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    Mod Squad JohnT's Avatar
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    Re: Pump won't move any water

    A leak anywhere before the water gets to the pump can cause priming problems, but it seems like some installations are just prone to priming problems for some reason.

    I close the valves to the skimmer and drain, remove the basket lid and add water until the strainer is full, then put the lid back on. Get somebody to help, and have them open the valves quickly and turn the pump on. Make sure the lid is tight. It should empty the basket pretty quickly, but if you leave it on you'll get water coming in after 20 or 30 seconds.

    If the pump doesn't empty the basket, you may have a restriction after the pump.
    TFP Moderator
    20K Gallon 20X36 Vinyl Inground
    Hayward S244T Sand Filter with 1HP Whisperflo Pump. Liquidator C-201 and Solar Heat

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    frustratedpoolmom's Avatar
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    Re: Pump won't move any water

    Quote Originally Posted by waste
    Dude, you've gotta warn folks when you post pics like that :P - my wife asked if I was having a heart attack when I clicked on the first pic 8)
    I don't get it.
    Helpful links: Pool School; CYA/Chlorine Chart
    24' round AG pool, 52" high, Raypak heater; Waterway 2 spd Pump;
    150 Sq ft. Clearwater Cartridge Filter; Former and DISSATISFIED "Pool Frog" owner
    http://www.PerfectlyClearPoolService.com

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    dayhiker's Avatar
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    Re: Pump won't move any water

    Quote Originally Posted by JohnT
    A leak anywhere before the water gets to the pump can cause priming problems, but it seems like some installations are just prone to priming problems for some reason.

    I close the valves to the skimmer and drain, remove the basket lid and add water until the strainer is full, then put the lid back on. Get somebody to help, and have them open the valves quickly and turn the pump on. Make sure the lid is tight. It should empty the basket pretty quickly, but if you leave it on you'll get water coming in after 20 or 30 seconds.

    If the pump doesn't empty the basket, you may have a restriction after the pump.
    I've been turning the pump on then immediately opening a skimmer valve. It's probably a 5 second difference. The basket empties, fills, but doesn't totally fill. It looks like the water in the basket isn't moving. I'm so paranoid the check valve is backwards, but I know it isn't.

    I'll try one more time and see what happens. I'm afraid I'm going to have to pay a pool person to come look.
    The avatar is Spalding from Caddyshack
    18x36 vinyl IG - approximately 24000 gal
    Jandy SHPM1.5 Pump (1.5 HP); Jandy APURE 1400 SWG; Polaris PB4-60Q Booster Pump; Jandy CL340 Cartridge Filter
    (3) 4'x12' Aquatherm solar panels
    Next project, pump sound enclosure and lots of pool landscaping [6tons of stone 8) funnnn]

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    Re: Pump won't move any water

    What is the current position of the 3way?

    In your pictures, with the handle pointing up, I believe you have closed off the opposite end coming from the filter. No water would be coming out of the filter. My valve's closed part of the 3way is across from the handle. You handle should be pointing to the 3 o'clock position. This would close the open solar connection and send the water straight through to the swg cell.

    Verify the "closed" position of the 3way.
    Joe

    21k IG vinyl, 300 lb. sand filter, 1hp pump, Polaris 280 cleaner, 3/4hp booster pump, 240sq ft Fafco solar, Liquidator

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    dayhiker's Avatar
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    Re: Pump won't move any water

    It's working. The 3-way valve is backwards. When the handle is in the direction of flow as if you weren't using the panels it's actually blocking the flow, hence my problems. When I "opened" the valve and closed the 2nd closure valve then it all worked. In the 2nd pic you can see a black handle in the vertical position. That sure seemed like it would be correct. Nay, nay.

    I'll take a pic once the storms clear out. Our town got nailed by a tornado a bit ago. I just heard on the news of a report of cattle becoming airborne in an adjacent town.

    Thanks for everyone's help. I feel bad taht I did it to myself but can't hardly account for a backwards handle.
    The avatar is Spalding from Caddyshack
    18x36 vinyl IG - approximately 24000 gal
    Jandy SHPM1.5 Pump (1.5 HP); Jandy APURE 1400 SWG; Polaris PB4-60Q Booster Pump; Jandy CL340 Cartridge Filter
    (3) 4'x12' Aquatherm solar panels
    Next project, pump sound enclosure and lots of pool landscaping [6tons of stone 8) funnnn]

  19. Back To Top    #19
    dayhiker's Avatar
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    Re: Pump won't move any water

    Quote Originally Posted by joenj
    What is the current position of the 3way?

    In your pictures, with the handle pointing up, I believe you have closed off the opposite end coming from the filter. No water would be coming out of the filter. My valve's closed part of the 3way is across from the handle. You handle should be pointing to the 3 o'clock position. This would close the open solar connection and send the water straight through to the swg cell.

    Verify the "closed" position of the 3way.
    Wow, you nailed it. About an hour ago I decided to try that and it worked. I had to duck into the basement when all the tornado warning came through and am just now sticking my head back out.

    Does that not seem like the valve is backwards? All of my other valves are parallel to the direction of flow. Talk about putting me behind on the install. I pretty much stopped what I was doing for this issue.
    The avatar is Spalding from Caddyshack
    18x36 vinyl IG - approximately 24000 gal
    Jandy SHPM1.5 Pump (1.5 HP); Jandy APURE 1400 SWG; Polaris PB4-60Q Booster Pump; Jandy CL340 Cartridge Filter
    (3) 4'x12' Aquatherm solar panels
    Next project, pump sound enclosure and lots of pool landscaping [6tons of stone 8) funnnn]

  20. Back To Top    #20
    frustratedpoolmom's Avatar
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    Re: Pump won't move any water

    Glad you were able to get everything working! Scary about the tornados, stay safe.
    Helpful links: Pool School; CYA/Chlorine Chart
    24' round AG pool, 52" high, Raypak heater; Waterway 2 spd Pump;
    150 Sq ft. Clearwater Cartridge Filter; Former and DISSATISFIED "Pool Frog" owner
    http://www.PerfectlyClearPoolService.com

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