advice in choosing steel AGP and equipment?

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firstladykatie

firstladykatie

Bronze Supporter
May 31, 2013
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After learning to do BBB on this site with various softside pools the past 10 years, our 26' intex ultra pool has died. We want to upgrade to bigger (33' round unless I can find a bargain on 20x40 oval) and more permanent. I was hoping to spend under $5000, but if I have to go higher to get it right the first time, I need to start planning now. I'm getting overwhelmed and about ready to give up and buy another intex ultra, but the kids were excited about a bigger one and have asked if I can try to figure out what to get. My hubby is not part of these kinds of tasks. Any and all advice is welcome!!

We have to hire all the labor. Installer says it will be $1800 for this big, whether used or new. My questions are about used vs new pools, width of top rails, sand vs DE filters, essential requirements in equipment, and anything else anyone can tell me.

A) Is the used one I found a good deal compared to buying new (and are the new prices I found reasonable?)--

32' used Vogue (3 yrs old) for $2000 plus $300 disassembly. Everything included.
Millenium Ultimate Granular Filtration In Ground Series 27"
Don't know what liner I need (want it to be DURABLE).

33' new Seaspray Evolution for $6050
comes with 22" Sta-Rite sand filter, offer $480 DE filter & 1hp pump system upgrade

32' new Doughboy Palm Shore for $8800 (comes in pkg, but I didn't get details)

B) Is the top rail width an important factor for heavy duty use? (I have six kids who are not little anymore, and they have LOTS of friends who come over.)

C) Coming off cartridge filters, sand sounded like a big step up. But the Seaspray salesperson strongly recommends DE. Which is more effective, easier to use, etc. We are a very, very busy family who has to travel for work, so efficiency or timers would be a big help.

D) As I'm trying to decide on a pool (going 2 hrs to see the used one tomorrow and on my way to a different pool store today), what are the MOST IMPORTANT criteria for pool construction and equipment? I think I've already found an experienced ground prep/installation guy, and I am already sold on TFP water systems...so what else really, really matters?

THANK YOU for helping me!!
 
Over sized filter, Sand or cartridge for you would be better from this statement "We are a very, very busy family who has to travel for work, so efficiency or timers would be a big help."

2 speed pump, way better than single speed

salt water generator, because you travel this would be number 1 on my list, it will make your life easier, we recommend 2 to 4 times bigger than needed

Look at my pool build below, it is an intex 16 x 32 and I love it and works great :) A 33' round is stronger though, round is always stronger... You can also get an idea of equipment and hard pipe.

Hope this helps :)
 
Round pools are indeed stronger and hold more water. Ovals are more expensive but are ideal in yards that have minimal space. DE filters are the best at filtering but they require babysitting if you have an algae outbreak. I have a DE filter, it's all I'll ever own because I like it so much.

You're going to need a proper test kit too. I'll always recommend the TF100 found at tftestkit.net.
 
Have been reading like crazy late every night. Your pool build story was great, Casey. Still have a lot I don't understand about SWG, but if that is a key to maintenance when gone a lot, I will keep trying to learn it.

I gather that Hayward pumps are popular here, 2-speed is important for lower electricity usage, but that the low speed must be adequate for SWG requirements. How do I know what SWG size is needed for 33' round, or what 2-4 times bigger would be, and what speed that would require in a pump?

Yesterday I priced a new Wilbar Sentinelle 33' whole set-up and installation at $7500...Today I am going to look at the used Vogue 33' which will run my $4500 with new liner and installation. The new one is resin (how big of a plus is that if I'm going to do SWG??), but the used one would save me the money to actually buy the SWG equipment. Trying to weigh the costs without really understanding the needs fully.

How do I compare a sand filter listed in pounds (250) to one listed in inches (27)? Are both adequate for a 33' round pool?

Thank you.
 
Some of this we can get from poolmath :) So 33 round is about 25000 gallons, you would need a 40k to 60k SWG.. I love my curcupool SJ series and they are way less expensive but basic, no neat screens or tests or voltages, just an on and off switch an 25%, 50%, 75%, and 100% buttons.. this is an SJ40 CircuPool® SJ-40 Salt Pool System here is a comparison chart Full Market Comparison of Salt Water Chlorine Generators for Swimming Pools

all the pump and filter is depending on how and what you want to do.. I did mine in all hard pipe and in ground pool equipment but you can also have all above ground equipment or mix and match... It also depends on how the power is getting to the equipment pad

Are the quotes you received including power to the pad or not?
 
Thanks, Casey, for the math help and chart link. Sorry I didn't thank you sooner. I disappeared to go on a wild goose chase all over rural Oklahoma tracking down the one I was interested in from Craigslist. Uggh.

No, my estimates do not include costs for running the electric. This installer does not do that, and I figure that's an equal additional cost no matter whether I go with the used pool or the new one. I need to be researching electricians and code requirements. Maybe I'm getting my cart ahead of the horse, but I wanted to nail down a pool and get on the installer's list in the hopes of getting this done by mid-summer at least.

My current thinking and questions are:

The used one I drove 3 hours to see (!!!) was not as advertised. It was "only" 30' (I want huge) and must be a Zenith Tuscany instead of Costa del Sol based on the pattern. It appears to be in excellent condition, but the bottom of the pool has a few inches of dirt and grass up against it...will that be a problem in removing it or in its condition for re-installlation?

After I got over being annoyed, I made them an offer. Still negotiating. As I read here every night, I am starting to think I could use the extra $ for partially burying the pool and adding deck and fencing in a couple years (vs. buying the new Sentinelle set up). But the pumps in my two options seem to not have great reviews on here: Waterway with the used one, Jacuzzi with the new one...will I regret these?

One other benefit I see to going with used 30' instead of new 33' is that The Liquidator 8 gallon might be more useful to that slightly-smaller volume of water. We are the often-gone, too-busy family. I have read and read about SWG, but I don't think it's something I'm comfortable starting off with. Is that stupid?

Shopping for pools online seems tedious. I can't find any pricing without submitting contact forms...am I missing something obvious?

The sites I have in mind in my backyard (which is huge) may have septic lateral lines underneath. My installer says the weight of the pool could ultimately crush them. Anyone know about this? The pool distributor says to call 811 and they will tell me, but when we bought the house (16 yrs ago), I was told no one can detect placement of laterals without digging. Advice? A related question that I can't seem to figure out is: how close to the pool does the equipment need to be, and what are the advantages of closer vs farther?

I think I discovered that a 27" sand filter holds 350 lbs of sand (which is the size the used 30' pool has). The new 33' pool comes with 250 lb filter. Is oversize in filters a big advantage?

On the flip side, I think the pump with the 30' used is 2 hp, vs a 1.5 with the new 33' pkg. This will be an electricity drain unless I sell/switch?

Thanks again for any and all comments. I am definitely in over my head and about ready to go give up and go buy another Intex.
 
Take a look at Pool Supply World. That is where I purchased my pool from. I purchased the Sharkline Venture and am happy with it. I did not purchase a package that included the pool, filter and pump. Instead I purchased each of the components separately so I could get just what I wanted. I had no issues with the company. If you choose to go with them, one of their employees is on the forum and will PM you a coupon code to use for purchase.
 
Going with saltwater is always a good option and makes it easier, not harder. The liquidator also works fine, lots of people use them. But, you will be hauling bleach and filling up that tank.

It is not important for the equipment to be close to the pool. A straight run of 2" pipe does not significantly impact head pressure. You can put it 50' away and be fine.

Contact your city, they may be able to pull the original septic permit plans. You don't want a pool on your lateral lines.

The bigger the filter the less often you have to backwash it and clean it. There is no downside to bigger.

You really want to get a 2 speed pump, 1-1/2hp is plenty. Run it on low for filtering and high for vacuuming. It will save you lots of money on electricity and your filter will work better. A 2 speed pump will move half the water on low but only use 25% of the electricity.
 
Thanks for the Poolsupplyworld suggestion! I actually COULD see prices there without submitting forms.

Thanks for the idea of checking septic permit plans with city, too...didn't know about that but will do so asap.

Anyone have a recommendation FOR or AGAINST jacuzzi or waterway pumps?

Follow-up question (forgive my ignorance) about electricity: are there multiple ways to have it go to the pad? I assumed electricity was just a straightforward "here's how it works" thing. Are certain ways better or safer?

Regarding the partial 2' bury option...does that require using in-ground equipment so my pump and filter won't be too high for the pool? My installer definitely doesn't want me to bury but will probably take my money and do it if I insist (has cautioned about warranty and said something about pump being too high, I thought?). Anyone have experience with that?

When I checked Poolsupplyworld, I looked at a 33' Sharkline Matrix. Says easy to DIY. I have strong young teenagers who REALLY want a pool. Has anyone who is NOT a gifted handyman-type person put one together themselves?
 

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We purchased a 21x43 oval Wilbur last summer. Purchased from thepoolfactory.com. We are very pleased a and love the size. We wanted the length for lap swimming and I teach swimming lessons. Purchase price was $4500 and included pump, and liner. Spent around 300.00 on sand and maybe another 800 to install.
 
Your kids could probably dig up the grass and get the ground level and compacted, starting at the lowest spot. there are a few good threads on this forum that show how. I also get sneezing and sinus fits in the ocean, and to lesser extent SWG pools. Don't know why.
 
You have some great questions :) Ok, here it goes..

Placement of pool, use a garden hose and find the best place to put it. this is a long read but here is my thread on septic leach lines, bottom line, do not install over them... AG pool over septic leach lines

Electrical: Find or hire an electrician, yes they are expensive but your families safety is worth every penny, closer to your power coming into you house the better.

SWG, worth every penny and don't be scared, if your gone as much as you say you are I would do it in a heartbeat. I would not want to haul that many gallons of bleach a week for that size pool. So the ocean is about 32,000 ppm salt level, a SWG is about 3,000 so WAY under what you think.

If you read my pool install below I went through a crazzzy install and returned a huge hard sided pool like yours because I did not want the headache of installing it myself, if you look at everything I did during my install I am pretty handy but you be the judge :)

I would only go for a 2 speed pump for Major cost savings... There are many people that use those pumps, but most replace with 2 speeds when they die...


As for burying the pool, there are very few pools that can do this, all other you will lose your warranty and the install cost goes way up.. it is cheaper to have your deck 2 feet taller than go in the ground 2 feet, not saying it is bad ( I was going to do it) until I found out how much they were going to charge me :)

I can tell you this, I really love my intex and it is way cheaper than the pools your looking at, and its huge, and Atwoods has them for cheap now.. along with 10% chlorine and the good muriatic acid :)
 
firstladykatie said:
Thanks for the Poolsupplyworld suggestion! I actually COULD see prices there without submitting forms.

Thanks for the idea of checking septic permit plans with city, too...didn't know about that but will do so asap.

Anyone have a recommendation FOR or AGAINST jacuzzi or waterway pumps?

Follow-up question (forgive my ignorance) about electricity: are there multiple ways to have it go to the pad? I assumed electricity was just a straightforward "here's how it works" thing. Are certain ways better or safer?

Regarding the partial 2' bury option...does that require using in-ground equipment so my pump and filter won't be too high for the pool? My installer definitely doesn't want me to bury but will probably take my money and do it if I insist (has cautioned about warranty and said something about pump being too high, I thought?). Anyone have experience with that?

When I checked Poolsupplyworld, I looked at a 33' Sharkline Matrix. Says easy to DIY. I have strong young teenagers who REALLY want a pool. Has anyone who is NOT a gifted handyman-type person put one together themselves?
Click to expand...

We are not handy people. Went with cartridge filter for our 21x43 and love it! We had to run electrical from house to pump - did a little pad made of patio stone for pump to sit on. My husband did electrical and grounding himself and passed inspection. Have you decided where you want the pump? We wanted ours away from the house so when we service it there wouldn't be a mess of water right near the house. Ran about 50 feet of electrical from house. Not sure what your code requirements are but our wire had to be 18" in the ground.
 
firstladykatie said:
Also, regarding SWG...I know they say it is less salt than an ocean...but I have a son who is very allergic to saltwater at the ocean, so can anyone speak to that?
Click to expand...

Do you use TFP method for chlorinating? It's so easy - if your concerned about saltwater reaction maybe stick with TFP using household bleach to chlorinate. Maybe you could put some homemade saltwater on his skin to test.
 
Duh. I never considered trying the homemade saltwater test. I can do that in a bath. Thanks.

Went to city building department, who said go to health department for septic line records. Waiting on return calls. Will read Casey's link about septic lines while I'm waiting.

Went back to pool seller, nice little old lady who has been in business 40+ years. She is not resistant to anything I tell her, and we had a friendly discussion about CYA, liquid chlorine, etc. She called the Sentinelle distributor, who said it is warrantied for SWG use. That was positive. However, she said she had never heard of using a 2-speed pump on an above ground pool. Both she and the installer I've been talking with insist that a pool this big must have the pump running 24 hrs a day, but neither thinks a low speed pump is a good idea. Incidentally, a different man (also in the pool business 50+ years) dropped by to see her while I was there, and he insisted he only runs his pump 6 hrs a day while using his automated cleaner. They agreed to disagree on the pump time, but neither saw any reason to get a 2-speed pump, even when I explained that I want energy efficiency. So...is this a controversial topic? The lady said all she could think of is that people suggesting this must be running in-ground pumps on above-ground pools. I asked if that was good for pools being partially buried, and she said she didn't know. Help? The installer insists that a partial bury will make the pump at the wrong height?

Meanwhile, I found a new Craigslist add for a 36' round AGP...anyone have any reason for me not to consider it, except for how far the center will be to clean?
 
firstladykatie said:
Duh. I never considered trying the homemade saltwater test. I can do that in a bath. Thanks.

Went to city building department, who said go to health department for septic line records. Waiting on return calls. Will read Casey's link about septic lines while I'm waiting.

Went back to pool seller, nice little old lady who has been in business 40+ years. She is not resistant to anything I tell her, and we had a friendly discussion about CYA, liquid chlorine, etc. She called the Sentinelle distributor, who said it is warrantied for SWG use. That was positive. However, she said she had never heard of using a 2-speed pump on an above ground pool. Both she and the installer I've been talking with insist that a pool this big must have the pump running 24 hrs a day, but neither thinks a low speed pump is a good idea. Incidentally, a different man (also in the pool business 50+ years) dropped by to see her while I was there, and he insisted he only runs his pump 6 hrs a day while using his automated cleaner. They agreed to disagree on the pump time, but neither saw any reason to get a 2-speed pump, even when I explained that I want energy efficiency. So...is this a controversial topic? The lady said all she could think of is that people suggesting this must be running in-ground pumps on above-ground pools. I asked if that was good for pools being partially buried, and she said she didn't know. Help? The installer insists that a partial bury will make the pump at the wrong height?

Meanwhile, I found a new Craigslist add for a 36' round AGP...anyone have any reason for me not to consider it, except for how far the center will be to clean?
Click to expand...

Do you have an older neighbor that has been in the neighborhood a while? I only ask because that is how we knew exactly where our septic line was. He pointed us right to it. The only thing we ran into was an old clothes line cement post - but it dug right up.

We have a 2 speed pump and can run it 8 hours a day but I run it closer to 12 hours. I like running mine longer than most - for some reason it just makes me feel like my pool is cleaner, but I would think you would have to run at least 8 hours for that size of a pool as long as you keep up with the chemicals or SWG levels. The experts here will be able to help. I don't think the pool being partial inground will matter much with the size of pump. I believe (could be wrong) that the size or power of pump is dependent on how many gallons of water or sq footage of pool you have. For our 24,000 gallon the 2speed, 2hp pump is great for us :) - Happy planning! Nichole
 
Well, duh again. Never thought about asking the neighbors, but will try that too. Thanks! Maybe I've been reading so much that I am not thinking very sharply.

So about pumps...I take it there are pumps for in-ground and pumps for above-ground pools...what are the differences, and does the level that I am placing my pump at in relation to the pool dictate the need for in-ground instead of above-ground? I think I grasp concepts that I don't want to oversize the pump, that 2-speeds are more energy efficient, and that a higher run speed may be required for using The Liquidator or SWG. But I still don't understand if I should be asking for in-ground equipment instead of above ground units.
 
That is the funny thing about companies and doing business for a long time.

1, "if it aint broke don't fix it" is there moto, they do not have to pay for power and 40 years ago up to 10 years ago that was exactly what all pool installers did, the bigger the pool the bigger the pump needed to be... Not until electricity rates started to rise did someone really start looking at these things and doing testing... That is why you hear more and more about 2 speed and VS (variable speed) pumps... read what Pentair says about pumps here Energy Saving Pool Speed Pump Tips | PENTAIR

Here is what we say about run time Pool School - Determine Pump Run Time We recommend starting out at 4 hours per day, 6 to 8 if you have a SWG and go from there :)

I am running an in ground pump on an above ground pool.

36 foot pool would be great if its a great price :)
 
firstladykatie said:
Well, duh again. Never thought about asking the neighbors, but will try that too. Thanks! Maybe I've been reading so much that I am not thinking very sharply.

So about pumps...I take it there are pumps for in-ground and pumps for above-ground pools...what are the differences, and does the level that I am placing my pump at in relation to the pool dictate the need for in-ground instead of above-ground? I think I grasp concepts that I don't want to oversize the pump, that 2-speeds are more energy efficient, and that a higher run speed may be required for using The Liquidator or SWG. But I still don't understand if I should be asking for in-ground equipment instead of above ground units.
Click to expand...

I think you would be using an above ground pump. You could always call a company as ask. The people at the pool factory are very helpful. Let them know what you are doing, how big your pool is and that you going with SWG and they can help you - 855-280-7665.

p.s I have no affiliation with them at all. We bought our pool from them last year and found them to be pretty helpful with installation type
questions.
 

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