High CC levels

[KM16]

hey guys i just opened my pool for the spring and these are the results i got to using my taylor k-2006 test kit. My pool is 18,000 gallos above ground.

FC 6.6ppm CC 1.6 ppm
ph 7.2
TA 50
CYA 48

So, my ph is a little low, the CC level is too high, TA & CYA are ok. I read on one of the forums that i need to shock my pool (FC 16ppm) until the CC goes down, i plan on using 8.3 bleach which is what i have at home. Will this affect the ph, TA and CYA??

 

[kimkats]

GREAT job on getting a good test kit and knowing how to use it! SWEET!

Your PH and CYA (should be read as 50 for SLAM levels please) are right where they need to be. While you do the SLAM you will not worry about any other levels other than FC.

How does your water look?

Can you please put your pool details and equipment in your siggy? (setting, edit signature) THANKS!

Kim

 

[KM16]

Thanks for your reply, I will put in my info in the morning so i can look up the details first, but we use a sand filter.

Now i have another dilemma, i read this on the abc's for water chemistry
"non-chlorine shock) will show up on FAS-DPD chlorine tests as CC. There is a special reagent you can get to neutralize the potassium monopersulfate so you can get a true CC reading" so i went to the pool store where i got all the chemicals for my pool last year ( including the ones i used to close it in the fall) to figure out if this could be why the cc level was high. They told me that the Sustain System i was using last year keeps a "reserve" of chlorine in the water that always show as higher cc levels in tests, and that that reserve would dissolve on its own if i stop using the Sutain system, and it wasn't necessary to shock the pool. I dont necessarily trust them since my pool got green a lot last year and they could never really tell me how to fix it even with a water sample almost every week! ( thats why i started learning about bbb method). However, right now the water looks really good, so she could be right. So my question now is do you think i should shock my pool to try to bring cc level down or see if it will really lower on its own???

 

[Richard320]

If you literally just opened the pool and pulled the cover off, that CC could just be some stuff that was trapped in there and UV from the sun and circulation should eliminate it. Still, taking it up to shock level until the water is clear, the CC goes away, and it holds overnight could turn out to be a one-day thing and you'd only be out a few extra bucks for bleach.

That sustain stuff is one of those mysterious proprietary formulas. The MSDS doesn't say much. http://baystatepools.com/media/wysiwyg/msds/PPG/8000338sustainwintershieldsummershield.pdf

The promotional stuff says it lasts 150 days. I doubt it's the sustain stuff raising CC. Bleach it out whatever it is.

Your pool pro has demonstrated he doesn't know how to be rid of algae for good, so stop listening to him.

 

[cowboycasey]

To easy to bring to SLAM level and make sure everything is good Mine was completely clear and I still brought to SLAM level to start out... Also it looks like your using the 25ml level, use the 10ml level from now on and multiply by .5, it will save you on reagents

 

[KM16]

Ok so, since bringing the pool to SLAM wont hurt anything I will try it. To be honest I am a little intimidated to try doing it with the bleach for the first time��, so i was kind of trying to avoid it if necessary, But i guess i gotta bite the bullet, Ill have to do it sooner or latter any way, i even bought the bleach already and read the article about SLAM, Im just an over thinker. And pool math says i have to add 153oz of 8.3% bleach( which is what could find) do i add it all at once?? And than keep adding as necessary. Also while Im doing this i plan to test once in the morning and once in the evening, since i dont know if Ill have time for more with 2 little ones "helping", do you think that should be enough??

 

[Richard320]

Ok so, since bringing the pool to SLAM wont hurt anything I will try it. To be honest I am a little intimidated to try doing it with the bleach for the first time��, so i was kind of trying to avoid it if necessary, But i guess i gotta bite the bullet, Ill have to do it sooner or latter any way, i even bought the bleach already and read the article about SLAM, Im just an over thinker. And pool math says i have to add 153oz of 8.3% bleach( which is what could find) do i add it all at once?? And than keep adding as necessary. Also while Im doing this i plan to test once in the morning and once in the evening, since i dont know if Ill have time for more with 2 little ones "helping", do you think that should be enough??

Round up CYA and call it 50. That makes shock level 20. To take 18000 gallons of water from 6.6 to 20 calls for 357 ounces of 8.25% bleach. That's close enough to call it 3 whole 121 oz jugs. That's just the initial dose. In reality, your 6.6 reading is probably no longer valid, so you need to retest it (use 10 ml sample, multiply drops by .5) and input that number in the Now column of pool math. Then you add what it calculates for you, all at once, in front of the return stream with the pump running so it disperses. Then tighten up those biceps with a round of brushing. If you are fighting off a nascent algae bloom, the whole process will go faster the more frequently you test and replenish. Twice a day will probably not be enough. Try for every two hours. Let the kids watch you test and help you count drops. Remember, all you're testing for a while is FC & CC, so it won't take very long.

Lets say two hours after you added the three jugs of bleach that your reading is 14.5 FC and 1.0 CC. You'll plug the 14.5 into pool math leaving the target at 20 and add what it calculates. Repeat as needed.

At some point you'll realize a) the water is clear even after brushing and there's no more algae or debris in the pool and b) CC is .5 or less. The evening that happens, you can test FC when the sun no longer shines directly on the pool and record it. Test again in the morning before the sun hits and if it lost less than 1 FC, you're done. You just have to wait for the FC to drop below 10 before you retest everything again and make your final chemical adjustments.

 

[KM16]

Thanks ill do that from now on

 

[kimkats]

If you can try to 4 times do so. The more you can maintain the FC at or just above SLAM level the faster it will go.

-right after you get the coffee started
-at nap time (hoping they still nap LOL)
-dinner time (hoping Dad can keep your helpers from helping)
-right before bed

LOL on the helpers... How old are they?

Kim

 

[cowboycasey]

Dont be intimidated, it really is easy, once you get going it will be just like getting in your car and driving, something you just do and dont give much thought to it

Ok so, since bringing the pool to SLAM wont hurt anything I will try it. To be honest I am a little intimidated to try doing it with the bleach for the first time��, so i was kind of trying to avoid it if necessary, But i guess i gotta bite the bullet, Ill have to do it sooner or latter any way, i even bought the bleach already and read the article about SLAM, Im just an over thinker. And pool math says i have to add 153oz of 8.3% bleach( which is what could find) do i add it all at once?? And than keep adding as necessary. Also while Im doing this i plan to test once in the morning and once in the evening, since i dont know if Ill have time for more with 2 little ones "helping", do you think that should be enough??

 

[KM16]

They are a 4 year old boy and 1 year old girl. I got my first pool and a newborn last year almost at the same time, not my brightest moment, lol!

- - - Updated - - -

I re-tested this morning, fc was 6 and cc was 1.5 so i put in 3 jugs of bleach. As soon as I get home ill test again. Thanks for all the recommendations. Ill let you know once the CC level is right.

 

[kimkats]

LOL on the pool and baby at the same time! :super: Super Mom at her finest!

Do what you can, when you can. We will be here to help out as needed if it is only to hold your hand.

HUGS Mommy!

Kim

 

[KM16]

Hey guys I need some help again. This is what i got so far and everything i have done to my pool? Why is the CC level going up and down?? And how is the FC higher now than this morning if i havent put anymore bleach in it? Im I doing the testing wrong?? And also ph was high this morning 7.8-8.0, should i try to bring it down some?

April 2


4:00 pm
Fc 6.6
Cc 1.6
Ph 7.2

April 3


10am
Fc 6
Cc 1.5
Added 3 jugs of bleach


4 pm
Fc 15
Cc 1
Added 132 oz of bleach
Brushed


6:30pm
Fc 21.5
Cc 1.5


9pm
Fc 22.5
Cc 1.5


April 4


9 am
Fc 20
Cc 1
ph 7.8-8.0
Vacuumed, back washed and added some water.


1pm
Fc 20.5
Cc 1.5

 

[kcindc]

More than likely you have some testing errors. Here are a few tips:

1. When you add drops for the FC/CC tests, use the reading as soon as the water is clear. The color of the sample will turn from clear to pink if you let it sit around.
2. I sometimes add drops too quickly and forget to count one of my drops, so take your time, but don't take took long (see #1 above).
3. Make sure that you are adding a full, rounded scoop of the DPD powder.
4. Don't test PH when the FC level is 10 or higher as it the PH test can falsely read high.
5. Test you fill water, sometimes the fill water can impact what you expect to see. My fill water PH, TA and CH vary throughout the season and FC can fluctuate whenever my city water system tries to clean some lines.

The speed stir really helps me make consistent, more accurate results. It also speeds up the testing process and is worth the $ in my opinion.

Keep on keeping on and you will tackle it. If you don't see improvement in a few days, you can retest your CYA to make sure you are using the CYA benchmark. The CYA test can be tricky... back to the full sun, with the vial about mid waist.

 

[Richard320]

First thing: I'll restate what I mentioned above. All you're testing for a while is FC & CC. pH reads wrong at high FC levels, so ignore it. Don't even bother testing it.

The precision of the measurement is plus or minus one drop when up to 10 drops of titrant are used, or plus or minus 10% of the final reading, when more than 10 drops of titrant are used. So going from 21.5 to 22.5 is no cause for alarm. Gaining 2 ppm when the test is in the twenties is within the limits.

Another way FC can climb without you adding it is a testing error. It could be not enough powder or it could be that you didn't let it mix well and you drew the sample from a saturated area the second time. So don't neglect to brush after additions. Besides breaking up the protective slimy scab algae forms so the bleach can kill it, brushing also helps mix the water.

Final thought: You don't have a SWG that's adding FC constantly, do you? And nobody tried to "help" by adding some extra bleach to speed things along?

So far, things look pretty normal. Are you seeing any change in the appearance?

 

[KM16]

No i dont have a SWG, and i'm the only one that can add bleach(husband is working and kids are too young) i could have made the mistakes you guys mentioned when testing the water though. Ill try to be more precise with the powder and take my time with the drops. The water was really nice and clear when we removed the cover on Friday, since I brought it to SLAM it got a little bit cloudy, but barely noticeable, kind of whitish. I read it could be the high ph.

- - - Updated - - -

 

[KM16]

Hi everyone! After 7 days of shocking my pool, testing 4 times a day, brushing after adding bleach and running the pump around the clock, the cc level is still 1ppm. Half way through the week i retested my cya and it's still 50, so ive kept my fc at 20ppm. I've been thinking that maybe the pool store people were on to something and cc level that shows on the test is the chlorine "reserve" from the sustaine system I was using, how bad do you think it would be if I stop shocking now?? and just see if the cc level will come down on its own, like they told me it would at the pool store?? I guess my question is how harmful a can 1ppm cc level be, if it turns out it is real combined chlorine and not a reserve of free chlorine? We're are not currently using our pool because the weather is pretty cold( low 60's) and the water is very clear again ( after some rain I noticed the water was no longer whitish, so i tested PH and it had come down a little, like 7.4) it's getting expensive with all the bleach, the pump and refills for my test kit. So what do you guys think?

 

[Richard320]

Hi everyone! After 7 days of shocking my pool, testing 4 times a day, brushing after adding bleach and running the pump around the clock, the cc level is still 1ppm. Half way through the week i retested my cya and it's still 50, so ive kept my fc at 20ppm. I've been thinking that maybe the pool store people were on to something and cc level that shows on the test is the chlorine "reserve" from the sustaine system I was using, how bad do you think it would be if I stop shocking now?? and just see if the cc level will come down on its own, like they told me it would at the pool store?? I guess my question is how harmful a can 1ppm cc level be, if it turns out it is real combined chlorine and not a reserve of free chlorine? We're are not currently using our pool because the weather is pretty cold( low 60's) and the water is very clear again ( after some rain I noticed the water was no longer whitish, so i tested PH and it had come down a little, like 7.4) it's getting expensive with all the bleach, the pump and refills for my test kit. So what do you guys think?

Have you cleaned lights and ladders? Check out the pictures in these threads.

Think I may have found my FC demand issue?
Problem Found and Ideas needed

If all is clean and the water still looks clear after brushing, then that CC may be some interference from that Sustain stuff. If they mixed MPS non-chlorine shock into their mystery formula, that could do it. Have you tried the overnight loss test? That will tell you a lot.

 

[cowboycasey]

I think you will be fine, just let it drift down to your normal FC of 6, keep above 4 at all times. so if you have to take it to 7 its ok... Just watch it and continue to test.. once your FC is below 10 you can test your PH again and see where you really are..

After your below 10fc do all your tests again and post up what you get, Come back and let us know if the CC's do come down or something else happens

 

[KM16]

Ok, we don't have any lights and we haven't installed the ladder since we open the pool this "spring" ( it keeps turning back to winter weather every other week here in SC) so there's is really nothing in the pool but water. Can i do the overnight loss test tonight or do i have to wait until the fc levels drift down?