New Pool Proposal - Does this sound about right?

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tjt040774

tjt040774

0
Apr 30, 2009
59
Huntsville,TX
I live approximately an hour north of Houston and am looking to break ground on our pool in a few weeks. We have a builder picked out (I think), and they appear to know what they are doing. Here is what they are proposing:

Pool Dimensions
Perimeter: 91'
Length: 29'
Width: 21' and 16'4"
Depth: 3'6" to 5'6" (my wife is scared of deep water...don't ask me)
Area: 440 sq ft

Spa: 44 sq ft w/ 6 ft spillway

Equipment:

Filter: Pentair Clean Clear Plus (cartridge) 420
Pump: 1 1/2 hp Intelliflo 4/160 (Is 1 1/2 enough hp?)
Water Feature: 1 hp Pentair Whisperflo High
Blower: Polars QT (not sure what hp...does it matter a great deal?)
Controller: Suntouch w Quicktouch remote
Lights: SaviLights (not sure which model...sent email today asking for more detail b/c I can't remember what our conversation was)

Returns: 6
Skimmers: 2 Pentair Bermuda w/Equalizer Lines (whatever that is)
Spa Jets: 6 (anybody have any around your feet? to do or not to do?

Sanitizer: DelOzone Eclipse w/ Rainbow In-Line Chlorinator

I know there has been plenty of discussions about the pros and cons of SWCG's on this forum, but I don't find just a whole lot of positive or negatives about ozone (corona discharge). As you probably have read, many of the pool builders here in southeast Texas either do NOT install SWCG's or they highly discourage them.

I have never owned a pool, but want my 6 year old to have a place to hang out at home rather than running around other places as she gets older. Will a pool prevent her from growing up? That's what I'm hoping for anyway. Any input would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

Travis
 
Welcome. Have you visited Pool School? Read all about the recommended sanitizer before you make a final decision. Be sure to check "Further Reading" at the bottom for even more information.

You don't mention (unless I missed it) what the surface of the pool will be....?

Good luck with your bid, make sure you take lots of pics. We love build stories with pics. :mrgreen: :wink:
 
I do not recommend ozone for an outdoor pool. Sunlight does the same thing much less expensively.

The IntelliFlo is a 3 HP pump, very effieient.

A 6 foot spillway is very wide and might pose some challenges. It will be tricky to make it look nice without either wasting energy or interfering with pool circulation.
 
JasonLion said:
I do not recommend ozone for an outdoor pool. Sunlight does the same thing much less expensively.

The IntelliFlo is a 3 HP pump, very effieient.

A 6 foot spillway is very wide and might pose some challenges. It will be tricky to make it look nice without either wasting energy or interfering with pool circulation.
Click to expand...


Thanks for the feedback. Could you please elaborate on what challenges we face with the 6 ft spillway and how it would interfere with circulation.

I must admit I am still confused about the sanatizer. As I stated, most of the poolbuilders in this area either refuse to install, or recommending that I not install a SWG. Most of these same people seem to lean toward the ozone. There must be something positive about ozone....right? Thanks again for any an all feedback.

Travis
 
tjt040774 said:
I must admit I am still confused about the sanatizer. As I stated, most of the poolbuilders in this area either refuse to install, or recommending that I not install a SWG. Most of these same people seem to lean toward the ozone. There must be something positive about ozone....right? Thanks again for any an all feedback.

Travis
Click to expand...

Positive for them, they make money on them. For you, no, the sunlight does the same thing for free.

The inline chlorinator is useful for vacations, etc., but you should understand that for everyday use it can result in problems. You would use Trichlor in the chlorinator, and trichlor lowers PH because it is acidic. You will find yourself having to add chems to increase the PH.

It also adds CYA. Overtime, if not monitored properly, you could end up with CYA levels that are too high, meaning "normal" levels of FC won't keep your pool sanitized. See the CYA chart in my sig. AS the CYA level increases, so does the recommended FC level.

Where you live, do you plan to winterize/close your pool? This draining/refilling each season with fresh water helps to keep CYA down, provided you don't also shock with dichlor products (these products raise CYA superfast!)

With cartridge filters, there is no backwashing, so not very much fresh water replacement to keep the CYA in check. Folks with sand filters backwash frequently and water is lost in the process, and replaced with fresh.

So without backwashing, without draining/refilling when closing/opening, you could very well end up with high CYA levels, because it's not kept in check.

So I would keep the inline chlorinator for vacation use, but for day to day chlorine source I recommend just plain chlorine. Of course if an SWG is an option, that would be my first recommendation, but as you said it may not be an option for you. So liquid chlorine is my backup.

Hope this helps on the sanitizer issue. :wink:
 
The IntelliFlo 4x160 has been renamed to the VS.

A wide spillway requires a fairly high flow rate to look right. High flow rates means wasted energy and less water going to the returns in the pool. With an IntelliFlo you can turn up the pump speed to get the flow rate you need, but that wastes electricity.
 
Hi,

I live near Conroe so close by. Here are my thoughts for you.

1. Buy the most energy efficient variable speed pump you can find. The VS is probably fine.

2. 6ft wide spill over sounds problamatic to me also.

3. Definitely get the SWG!! Not even debatable.

4. I have ozone, but would only recommend it for those who are technically minded about the stuff or those installing ORP controllers with there SWG and want reliable automation.

5. Keep trees and limbs as far back from the pool as possible.... Real problem here in the fall.

6. I also have a cartridge filter and love it....however you want to oversize it. I recommend at least one size large than what the builder quoted you. Otherwise you will be cleaning it more frequently.

7. If you get a heater, NG will be cheaper to operate than electric. Also make sure the heat exchanger is warranties for a salt water pool.

8. Never heard of the pool controller mentioned....maybe someone else on the forum can comment.

9. Have the builder run a line from the equipment pad to the street to when you drain the pool the water has a place to go without you having to hook up a flexible hose.

10. Did you mention a pool cleaner? I am her pleased with my Polaris 280.. Other good ones out there too I am sure.

11. Make the builder do a nice job of building your equipment pad. This means a nice POURED concrete slab that is one piece with a foot or two of landscape gravel around that with a landscape border around that. The gravel is because it gets wet in this area when working on equipment. The traveled area is also where all the PVC plumbing should come up out of the ground. Don't let them pour concrete around the plumbing.

12. Have them use at least 2" plumbing on the filter circuit. Larger is even better for lowering your electric bill.

My pool had an offline chlorinator when I bought it. I removed it. Takes up space. Is too small to accept the larger cal-hypo tablets which can be dropped in the skimmer basket anyway.

Ask about placing one of the pool returns near your entry steps to remove dirt that might settle there and is potentially too shallow for your pool cleaner to reach.

Now is the time to have an auto water level fill line and device installed. Can't add it after the build.

Keep us posted

Good luck
 
learthur said:
Hi,

I live near Conroe so close by. Here are my thoughts for you.

1. Buy the most energy efficient variable speed pump you can find. The VS is probably fine.

2. 6ft wide spill over sounds problamatic to me also.

3. Definitely get the SWG!! Not even debatable.

4. I have ozone, but would only recommend it for those who are technically minded about the stuff or those installing ORP controllers with there SWG and want reliable automation.

5. Keep trees and limbs as far back from the pool as possible.... Real problem here in the fall.

6. I also have a cartridge filter and love it....however you want to oversize it. I recommend at least one size large than what the builder quoted you. Otherwise you will be cleaning it more frequently.

7. If you get a heater, NG will be cheaper to operate than electric. Also make sure the heat exchanger is warranties for a salt water pool.

8. Never heard of the pool controller mentioned....maybe someone else on the forum can comment.

9. Have the builder run a line from the equipment pad to the street to when you drain the pool the water has a place to go without you having to hook up a flexible hose.

10. Did you mention a pool cleaner? I am her pleased with my Polaris 280.. Other good ones out there too I am sure.

11. Make the builder do a nice job of building your equipment pad. This means a nice POURED concrete slab that is one piece with a foot or two of landscape gravel around that with a landscape border around that. The gravel is because it gets wet in this area when working on equipment. The traveled area is also where all the PVC plumbing should come up out of the ground. Don't let them pour concrete around the plumbing.

12. Have them use at least 2" plumbing on the filter circuit. Larger is even better for lowering your electric bill.

My pool had an offline chlorinator when I bought it. I removed it. Takes up space. Is too small to accept the larger cal-hypo tablets which can be dropped in the skimmer basket anyway.

Ask about placing one of the pool returns near your entry steps to remove dirt that might settle there and is potentially too shallow for your pool cleaner to reach.

Now is the time to have an auto water level fill line and device installed. Can't add it after the build.

Keep us posted

Good luck
Click to expand...



learthur

Glad to finally here from someone with a Delozone system. You have pushed over the edge in favor fo the SWCG. Who buildt your pool? I don't have a whole lot of choice on the trees. I live in the country, and even if I cut down every tree in my yard, I would still have tree trouble. I am getting the Polaris 280 as well. Still not quite sure that the 6 ft spill over is going to be a big problem. As I understand from the previous poster, it's more a matter of electricity usage. Is that what you are thinking as well? Thanks for the other tips as well. We have spoken with numerous pool builders in the Conroe/Woodlands area:

Sensation (Montgomery)
Blue Water (Conroe)
Anthony & Sylvan (Spring)
Platinum (Houston)

We are currently leaning toward Mirage Custom Pools out of Conroe (http://www.mirageswimmingpools.com/). However, we also have Topaz Pools we are considering (http://www.topazpools.com/).

Going to look at a couple of pools this afternoon in Tomball with the Mirage people. Will let you know how it turns out.

P.S. Our heater will be propane. Thanks again for everyone's help.
 

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Our spillway is almost four feet wide and needs about 40 gpm to look good. With 6 feet, probably about 50-60 gpm would be needed -- yeah, that'd be about 700 watts (for me at least). I installed an automated valve for the spillway so it only runs a few hours a day for effect, spa circulation and to make sure the water level stays high enough. (I also run in a slow-gpm spa mode for an hour just to keep the water in the pipes fresh). There's also the added benefit that we can run the pool at night without the water-falling (spa spillover) noise -- the pool is right outside the bedroom and it'f be pretty loud. Running the spillover a limited time has other advantages also:

- less evaporation (fill water)
- less water cooling
- less calcium buildup around spillover


I'll be the first to admit I overdesigned the valving on my pool, but the spillway controll is one I would do again (along with the automated valve for the pool cleaner).

Steve
 
I would also like to know about spillover spa. Not sure why there is a problem ?

I have one and love it. You can always drain the spa into your pool and run only pool circulation. When you need to show-off your spa "waterfall", just open the spa return ...
 
I think the issue with the wide spillover is an issue of energy.

The spa is a smaller body of water so needs less flow than the pool. Since you will be using low flow from your variable speed pump, the spa will get an appopriate but small flow. This low flow will make the water just barely dribble over your overflow which could result in the following.

1. Guests will remark "is your pool broken?"
2. The water dribble could potentially make a bigger calcium deposit mess on your tile depending on pool chemistry.
3. Less aeration which could be good or bad.

The bottom line is that either you will end up running your pump at higher power and loose your energy savings or you will need a fancy automated controller with an extra valve just to make your spillover look pretty for a few hours per day.

As far as pool builders in this area. I don't have any experience. My pool was built 10 years ago and the builder is no longer in business. I have been told that in this area there is a large number of "builders" both entering the market and going out of business. I would pick someone who has been around a long time IN THE AREA.

When choosing pool sanitized (really not much choice here) keep in mind:

1. Certain chloramines are carcinogenic.
2. Ozone + bromine can produce a carcinogenic compound.
3. Bromine doesn't work well for outdoor pools.
4. Regardless of sanitized, you need something to oxidize the organic junk that accumulates in the pool. Most "shock" with liquid bleach periodically to do this. The more CONSISTENTLY your chlorine levels are maintained at appropriate levels (avoiding peaks and valleys in chlorine levels) the less you need to shock. Some such as myself use ozone to either greatly reduce or eliminate shocking. Ozone is more helpful as an oxidizer than a sanitized. In general sanitizing is the easy part and can be done a lot of different ways. It is the oxidation part where you need to make a choice.
5. If you think you want ozone, keep in mind that it takes a lot more than most people will tell you and that makes it expensive. Ozone will not prevent algae ever under any circumstance (I have tried them all). But borates do help :)
6. Both ozone and/or a SWG will help reduce chloramines #1 above.
7. Several manufacturers are catching on to the benefits of a SWG + ozone. Autopilot just came out with this combo. Delozone has made the Triopure for several years now and it works great (friend has one in The Woodlands) and I suspect Goldline probably will come out with one soon.

In summary I would get a pool controller that will automate as much as possible and a SWG to make your life east because even with these issues out of the way there is plenty of pool maintenance to occupy your time such as emptying your Polaris, skimmer baskets, adding acid, cleaning the pool deck, etc.

Other options to consider (just in case it wasn't expensive enough :))
Motorized pool cover to keep out leaves.
Solar pool heating.

Good luck
 
(sorry for the typos on previous posts....iphone auto complete did it :)

Almost forgot....

The spa spillover is not just for looks. IT IS FUNCTIONAL as well.
It is essentially a skimmer. When functioning and designed appropriately it will remove all the floating debris which falls into your spa. Mine works great, so cleaning leaves out of the spa is a minimal or non-existant issue for me. The idea is that the spillover washes all the debris into the pool where the real skimmers or polaris get it.

To work the spillover needs FORCE to push the debris out. Force is equal to both the mass of the water and the velocity of the water. So you need a reasonable volume of flow (not a dribble over the side) and a reasonable rate (to be tweaked by your valve and/or VS pump).

If your overflow is wide in cross sectional area you need more FORCE for it to remove debris. This translates into higher pump flow rates and more energy consumption. An overflow with smaller cross sectional area will work very well (look how small skimmers are) with a smaller pump flow rate saving you money and making your spillover a more effective "skimmer".

Remember, your Polaris is great, but it won't clean your spill-over spa for you :)

When debris SINKS rather than floats in my spa, I turn on the spa jets which agitates the water and either sucks the debris into the spa jet motor filter basket, or brings the debris to the surface so it is discharged via the spillover. This means a lot less cleaning for me.... or easy cleaning.

Lee
 
Thanks for clarification on the spillover spa. Yes, running smaller pump is more efficient but if you subtract the extra cost of running smaller pump longer, savings are not that great.

My issue is I have smart meter so running during night is 3 times cheaper. It does not cost me more to run more powerful pump (1.5 Hp) for 9 hours at night than I would be running 3/4 Hp pump for 13 hours and paying 3 times the price for extra 4 hours. Basically, spillover for me does not add any cost.

Everyone's situation is different...
 
learthur said:
4. Regardless of sanitized, you need something to oxidize the organic junk that accumulates in the pool. Most "shock" with liquid bleach periodically to do this. The more CONSISTENTLY your chlorine levels are maintained at appropriate levels (avoiding peaks and valleys in chlorine levels) the less you need to shock. Some such as myself use ozone to either greatly reduce or eliminate shocking. Ozone is more helpful as an oxidizer than a sanitized. In general sanitizing is the easy part and can be done a lot of different ways. It is the oxidation part where you need to make a choice.
Click to expand...

Much of this is not true with an outdoor pool. A properly maintained outdoor pool may well never need to be shocked and ozone doesn't help an outdoor pool in any significant way. However, these points are very valid with an indoor pool (though ozone can create air quality problems indoors).

Spillovers are great! It is only a very wide spillover that creates an issue. A very wide spillover requires a higher flow rate, which may be more flow than you would otherwise need, which means higher electrical costs. A normal width spillover, say two feet, can usually be run within the flow rate you would have anyway.

Savings from running a pump on low speed can be dramatic, despite needing to run the pump longer. An IntelliFlo will often save 50% of your electrical usage by running on low speed. Even a standard two speed pump can save 20-25% on low speed.
 
Jason,

I would be interested in getting your take on the 5 - 6 ft spillover. I really like the way they look, but would only run it at the higher speed for a few hours each day and on special occasions. Are we talking about that much of an increase.

Aslo, just so I'm clear. The intelliflo 4x160 is now the intelliflow VS? And, it is a 3 hp pump? As I said in a previous post, both of the companies I am considering gave me brochures on the 4x160, but after reading the info above, I noticed that they were both dated 05 and 06.

Thanks.
 
Yes, the old IntelliFlo 4x160 is now the IntelliFlo VS, same pump new name. It is a 3 HP pump.

A wide spillover can be very pretty, and it can work well if everything is setup correctly. It will use more electricity than a narrower spillover. If you only run it an hour or two a day it won't be all that much more electricity. If you want to see it on all the time and you have high electric rates I would think twice about it. It isn't a deal breaker, just a tradeoff that it is better to know about before hand rather than after the fact.
 
One thing to consider if you're going to use a saltwater generator, I read somewhere on here that they can damage some of the common flagstones used here. If you plan on flagstone coping you should do a search.
 

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