Sorry, but I am confused. I did Ben's cal-hypo iron removal procedure and I never had to open my filter. What am I missing? I am pretty tired so forgive me if I missed something obvious!
Phosphates.....are they worth removing??
- Thread starter Leebo
- Start date
Let's try to keep this thread on the subject of phosphates. There's been some discussions in the past on removing iron and clearly it's another topic that would bring interest in the future. For now however let's try to stick to trying to figure out if phosphate removers are beneficial to users.
Will do, Lee. The metal topic is rather closely related because I suspect only those sequestering for metals actually have problem levels, but it certainly warrants its own incubator thread 
MarianP, I realize what I wrote made no sense, so I I'll explain because it does actually have a connection to using high volumes of phosphate removers as well
I broke the multiport as a newbie attempting to checking sand condition for channelling after swamp recovery because original pool guy tried floc...have since chosen (until now with phosgoo) not to put anything in filter (via skimmer) that might require such a check or otherwise gum up filter BECAUSE I CANT DEEP CLEAN IT -- its in a "finshed/furnished" poolhouse now, which in retrospect, wasn't a great plan. While TFP supports adding DE to sand filter, I've also read that it can build up in some conditions just like floc and clog/channel sand if not backwashed out, etc. May or may not be true, but I just generally historically tried to avoid messing with it.
With this phosphate removal, I've thrown out all my caution around avoiding things that could clog or channel the sand filter...high doses of lanthanum act like floc, plus chitosand acts like floc...because I am changing the sand...which I am changing because it hasn't been deep cleaned for at least 5 years plus two foreclosed
Said old and assuredly dirty sand filter, however, continues to clear like a champ and has only risen now still to just under 7 psi since Sunday's introduction of the phosgoo. In the morning I will give her a good backwash.
MarianP, I realize what I wrote made no sense, so I I'll explain because it does actually have a connection to using high volumes of phosphate removers as well
I broke the multiport as a newbie attempting to checking sand condition for channelling after swamp recovery because original pool guy tried floc...have since chosen (until now with phosgoo) not to put anything in filter (via skimmer) that might require such a check or otherwise gum up filter BECAUSE I CANT DEEP CLEAN IT -- its in a "finshed/furnished" poolhouse now, which in retrospect, wasn't a great plan. While TFP supports adding DE to sand filter, I've also read that it can build up in some conditions just like floc and clog/channel sand if not backwashed out, etc. May or may not be true, but I just generally historically tried to avoid messing with it.
With this phosphate removal, I've thrown out all my caution around avoiding things that could clog or channel the sand filter...high doses of lanthanum act like floc, plus chitosand acts like floc...because I am changing the sand...which I am changing because it hasn't been deep cleaned for at least 5 years plus two foreclosed
Said old and assuredly dirty sand filter, however, continues to clear like a champ and has only risen now still to just under 7 psi since Sunday's introduction of the phosgoo. In the morning I will give her a good backwash.
- May 23, 2015
- 24,410
- Pool Size
- 16000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
I think the discussion, while somewhat tangential, was appropriate. Some of Swampwoman's high phosphate issues are/were due to the odd configuration of her pool setup. As the SeaKlear tech indicated, and as the article I posted corroborates, SW's low calcium water caused some of her excess orthophosphate levels. If she had more "normal" CH levels then at least some of the phosphonate metal sequestrants she has used over the years would have precipitated out as a calcium-phosphonate particulate and would have been removed by backwashing. But, because her calcium levels are so low (from using filtered and softened well water), the phosphonates stayed in the water longer allowing them to break down into orthophosphate which doesn't necessarily precipitate out as particles that can be captured in a sand filter.
So this is a good learning experience as it gives SW and others a better methodology in the future for controlling orthophosphate levels while using sequestrants - be sure to have enough CH in the water to help remove the metal ions or else you will build up [PO4].
So this is a good learning experience as it gives SW and others a better methodology in the future for controlling orthophosphate levels while using sequestrants - be sure to have enough CH in the water to help remove the metal ions or else you will build up [PO4].
Good morning.
Backwashed filter and it took about 3 min for bubble to show clear water from milky white PSI dropped back to cean/normal psi of 17
FC 5 ( used about 2)
Cc 0
Ph 7.2
TA 80
Ch 40 * will add 100 before adding jacks purple after po4 test tomorrow
Cya 45-50 ish
Water temp dropped to 62 (10 degrees since Sunday)
Pool phosphate test, no dilution, goes to 1,000 ppb -- def over. Need hubby for aquarium test and precise dilution, will wait til tomorrow wasn't esp. optimistic that I'd get to a range where the pool phosphate test will work.
Matt - re calcium levels...I went back to 2012 and 2013 and saw my levels ranged 160-200 back then. So dilution of soft water since 2013 clearly dropped it to current 40 ppm. My plan is to raise it 100 initially, then maybe boost up a bit with cal hypo before water is warm enough for effective swg, I think...didn't buy more initially because I want to see my po4 level...since increased ch reduces po4 threshold for scaling according to that equation by CG.
Water is reasonably clear...not quite to normal standard yet:
(Note, white haze in deep end is not floc...its where the 15 y/o liner has faded from frequent robot tread around drains...this liner survived 2 years at a crashed TA of 0 on opening during its foreclosure, meaning extremely low ph, and it still hasn't failed. But aesthetically, its ready for a change
Backwashed filter and it took about 3 min for bubble to show clear water from milky white
PSI dropped back to cean/normal psi of 17FC 5 ( used about 2)
Cc 0
Ph 7.2
TA 80
Ch 40 * will add 100 before adding jacks purple after po4 test tomorrow
Cya 45-50 ish
Water temp dropped to 62 (10 degrees since Sunday)
Pool phosphate test, no dilution, goes to 1,000 ppb -- def over. Need hubby for aquarium test and precise dilution, will wait til tomorrow
wasn't esp. optimistic that I'd get to a range where the pool phosphate test will work.Matt - re calcium levels...I went back to 2012 and 2013 and saw my levels ranged 160-200 back then. So dilution of soft water since 2013 clearly dropped it to current 40 ppm. My plan is to raise it 100 initially, then maybe boost up a bit with cal hypo before water is warm enough for effective swg, I think...didn't buy more initially because I want to see my po4 level...since increased ch reduces po4 threshold for scaling according to that equation by CG.
Water is reasonably clear...not quite to normal standard yet:
(Note, white haze in deep end is not floc...its where the 15 y/o liner has faded from frequent robot tread around drains...this liner survived 2 years at a crashed TA of 0 on opening during its foreclosure, meaning extremely low ph, and it still hasn't failed. But aesthetically, its ready for a change
I hope to open up this weekend. I anticipate a quick balance as I opened the auto-cover this weekend and the pool looks great. I opened balanced last year, so fingers crossed.
As soon as things look good, I will add some cal-hypo to my skimmer. I am curious to see how much it will raise my CH and will report both expected (PoolMath) results and actual results as I am not sure how much calcium eventually makes its way past the filter. Adding through the skimmer tends to settle the calcium onto the sand, which, in my limited understanding, is what catches iron in the filter so the precipitate can be backwashed out. As you can tell, I am not a chemist!
Once I have those results, maybe it will be a way to kill two birds with one stone; adding calcium and reducing your iron content.
Once I am done with that experiment, phosphates away!
BTW, SW, my sand seems to be just fine with the DE. I used cellulose one year and THAT gummed up my filter sand with sticky, orange goo.
As soon as things look good, I will add some cal-hypo to my skimmer. I am curious to see how much it will raise my CH and will report both expected (PoolMath) results and actual results as I am not sure how much calcium eventually makes its way past the filter. Adding through the skimmer tends to settle the calcium onto the sand, which, in my limited understanding, is what catches iron in the filter so the precipitate can be backwashed out. As you can tell, I am not a chemist!
Once I have those results, maybe it will be a way to kill two birds with one stone; adding calcium and reducing your iron content.
Once I am done with that experiment, phosphates away!
BTW, SW, my sand seems to be just fine with the DE. I used cellulose one year and THAT gummed up my filter sand with sticky, orange goo.
Me too!
I have a client meeting I have to leave for at 6:30 am so I doubt hubby will test for PO4 without me here so tonight is likely the first test here
I have a client meeting I have to leave for at 6:30 am so I doubt hubby will test for PO4 without me here so tonight is likely the first test here
Me too!
I have a client meeting I have to leave for at 6:30 am so I doubt hubby will test for PO4 without me here so tonight is likely the first test here
Oh well...LOL!
That pool sure is looking good SW! Hats off to you guys for all the experiments and documentation.
On a break and destined to work late but new development...wee tiny bits of phosgoo are collecting in corners and now discolored tan n black...robot not getting. I'm gonna have to manually vacuum to waste again tonight.
Which means no testing if the stuff is still forming, I suspect. Will update later.
Which means no testing if the stuff is still forming, I suspect. Will update later.
- Sep 23, 2015
- 1,573
- Pool Size
- 20000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Astral Viron V25
Pool phosphate test, no dilution, goes to 1,000 ppb -- def over. Need hubby for aquarium test and precise dilution, will wait til tomorrow
Matt - re calcium levels...I went back to 2012 and 2013 and saw my levels ranged 160-200 back then. So dilution of soft water since 2013 clearly dropped it to current 40 ppm. My plan is to raise it 100 initially, then maybe boost up a bit with cal hypo before water is warm enough for effective swg, I think...didn't buy more initially because I want to see my po4 level...since increased ch reduces po4 threshold for scaling according to that equation by CG.
Pitty it's not under 1000ppb but I guess with Matt's 10X reduction somewhere around 4000ppb could be expected. I think myself very lucky I don't have metals or phosphates in my tap water. Or maybe it's the heavy rain, I'd always thought dilution was a bad thing but it appears to be a double edged sword with benefits too.
I've looked back a few times now but can't find it, what is the PO4 threshold for scaling? And how does the CH concentration affect the threshold?
I think monitoring and adjusting PO4 for scaling is more important than attempting to use PO4 as a limiting nutrient for algae control, and even more so if a pool has borates.
We just returned from a few days in Sydney for my wife's graduation collecting her floppy hat and my little glass bucket of pool water still has no sign of algal growth. We have an internal, open air, water feature that regularly needs treatment for algae so my slow growth in the glass vase with pool water is not due to a lack of inoculation and both would have similar PO4 concentration. I'm thinking that even at 50ppm the borates are having a significant impact on inhibiting algal growth.
Ok, I need some POP.
After vacuuming to waste again last night hubby decided what the heck and tested for PO4 with aquarium kit that goes to 5,000 ppb.
1st test, still dark blue. 1st dilution - still darkest blue. 2nd dilution (1 part to two parts distilled water) STILL dark blue!
So then he tested distilled water alone, very faint hint of blue. Ergo he insists his reagents are just fine. I test with pool po4 kit, which only goes to 1,000...yup, dark blue.
SO, we stopped, hoping that despite dropping water temp, reaction is still occurring since I've still had drop out/floc ish formations.
He wants to wait til tomorrow to test again.
IF I remain in the neighborhood of 15,000-20,000 -- which would be a reduction of about half of measured level, I will have to think carefully about how to proceed on several fronts.
1. At current, low calcium per chemgeek's equation, I should not have scaling on swg cell if my po4 is under 20,000...so in theory, I could just go ahead, install the swg in the name of science, and see what happens
2. Adding calcium would change the PO4 threshold for scaling, so its a Sophie's Choice on following Jacks Magic's advice about having enough calcium to ironically carry out both iron and spent phosphate
3. But I am already seeing faint iron staining start, even with ph low, and even with low .4 ppm reading...so of course I'm dying to get some sequestrant in there
4. I could delay install (if I called today) and do another treatment...but at $230 of product for 2 gallons, by the time I'd done another I might as well have trucked in 10,000 gallons and diluted the PO4 with freshwater instead
Of course, I could always return the still-in-box swg and wait til I change the liner, but I'm still feeling a bit stubborn on this point as McH has prioritized constructing an observatory over the liner change ("cause it still holds water") and I have a feeling he'd be quite content if all the print wore off the liner before changing it
I guess I'll just settle down and see what fuller testing tomorrow brings. I probably should have waited in the first place This is likely why I never went into science!
Ps Despite my perhaps premature disappointment with the experiment, I should note the water looks crystal clear again and were it not for my forray into the dark art of phosphate removal I'd just be cranking up the heater and diving in!
After vacuuming to waste again last night hubby decided what the heck and tested for PO4 with aquarium kit that goes to 5,000 ppb.
1st test, still dark blue. 1st dilution - still darkest blue. 2nd dilution (1 part to two parts distilled water) STILL dark blue!
So then he tested distilled water alone, very faint hint of blue. Ergo he insists his reagents are just fine. I test with pool po4 kit, which only goes to 1,000...yup, dark blue.
SO, we stopped, hoping that despite dropping water temp, reaction is still occurring since I've still had drop out/floc ish formations.
He wants to wait til tomorrow to test again.
IF I remain in the neighborhood of 15,000-20,000 -- which would be a reduction of about half of measured level, I will have to think carefully about how to proceed on several fronts.
1. At current, low calcium per chemgeek's equation, I should not have scaling on swg cell if my po4 is under 20,000...so in theory, I could just go ahead, install the swg in the name of science, and see what happens
2. Adding calcium would change the PO4 threshold for scaling, so its a Sophie's Choice on following Jacks Magic's advice about having enough calcium to ironically carry out both iron and spent phosphate
3. But I am already seeing faint iron staining start, even with ph low, and even with low .4 ppm reading...so of course I'm dying to get some sequestrant in there
4. I could delay install (if I called today) and do another treatment...but at $230 of product for 2 gallons, by the time I'd done another I might as well have trucked in 10,000 gallons and diluted the PO4 with freshwater instead
Of course, I could always return the still-in-box swg and wait til I change the liner, but I'm still feeling a bit stubborn on this point as McH has prioritized constructing an observatory over the liner change ("cause it still holds water") and I have a feeling he'd be quite content if all the print wore off the liner before changing it
I guess I'll just settle down and see what fuller testing tomorrow brings. I probably should have waited in the first place
This is likely why I never went into science!Ps Despite my perhaps premature disappointment with the experiment, I should note the water looks crystal clear again and were it not for my forray into the dark art of phosphate removal I'd just be cranking up the heater and diving in!
Aus, I am only aiming for scale prevention -- not starvation, cause that's just never gonna happen with well water and metals
To answer your question re:
The theoretical formula presented by an associate of this forum in the past was as follows:
To answer your question re:
The theoretical formula presented by an associate of this forum in the past was as follows:
Just for fun: a picture of my "phos-goddess" praying over my pool. Yes, those azaleas are in bloom. Yes, they will all end up in the pool
FC was 5.5, ph now up to 7.4 which is my "normal"
My guess is that the lathanum chloride in such quantities is a bit acidic.
View attachment 46895
FC was 5.5, ph now up to 7.4 which is my "normal"
My guess is that the lathanum chloride in such quantities is a bit acidic.
View attachment 46895
- Sep 23, 2015
- 1,573
- Pool Size
- 20000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Astral Viron V25
^ I had always thought you were going through this for the scaling effect of PO4, I guess I wasn't being specific and was trying to link back to the original OP.
I recal reading back there somewhere where someone had asked why with such a high PO4 concentration have you managed to keep the algae at bay. Chlorine management is the obvious answer but I did find a quote in a microbial ecology text book that stated that high PO4 can suppress growth although it didn't put a figure on high and didn't say why.
I got that formulae but over looked it in search of a simple figure and to be honest I don't understand what it means.
I recal reading back there somewhere where someone had asked why with such a high PO4 concentration have you managed to keep the algae at bay. Chlorine management is the obvious answer but I did find a quote in a microbial ecology text book that stated that high PO4 can suppress growth although it didn't put a figure on high and didn't say why.
I got that formulae but over looked it in search of a simple figure and to be honest I don't understand what it means.
Yeah, it's complicated...temperature, ph, phosphate level and calcium level each affect the possibility of creating phosphate scale...which is why no one can just say "at 20,000 ppb you will form phosphate scale" because IF the calcium, or any other variables are lower, then you won't
In the equation posted that someone did for me, they were solving for calcium to determine whether or not I was likely to scale -- so in te first case at 7.5 ph, my calcium could be 337 ppm with phosphates at 25,000 ppb before scale would form...BUT at higher ph of 8.5 typical of inside salt cell, I could scale at 75 ppm calcium.
This is why I'm reluctant to raise calcium, considering I'm unsure of po4 reduction level...calcium is the one variable I can control due to the soft water
In the equation posted that someone did for me, they were solving for calcium to determine whether or not I was likely to scale -- so in te first case at 7.5 ph, my calcium could be 337 ppm with phosphates at 25,000 ppb before scale would form...BUT at higher ph of 8.5 typical of inside salt cell, I could scale at 75 ppm calcium.
This is why I'm reluctant to raise calcium, considering I'm unsure of po4 reduction level...calcium is the one variable I can control due to the soft water
- May 23, 2015
- 24,410
- Pool Size
- 16000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
SW,
I calculated your theoretical minimum PO4 level to be ~4,200ppb based on the products stated performance and your initial starting point at 37,000ppb. Hopefully you get below 10,000ppb. If not, maybe you should contact SeaKlear and see if they'd be willing to throw you an extra gallon for your troubles
Yes, the lanthanum chloride solution is designed to be acidic because transition metal salts are not stable at neutral pH. They tend to form hydroxides and oxide at neutral pH.
AUSpool,
Borates are, at best, an algae growth inhibitor as not all algae are affected by boron and, at 50ppm, the boron concentration is well below the lethal threshold for most species. The primary purpose of borates is to add additional pH buffering to the water which has its biggest effect inside the SWG cell since it can cut the pH rise by half. This can give most cells a decent boost in efficiency as they are much less likely to develop calcium scale on the plates.
As far as my own low phosphate experimentation goes, my pool remains crystal clear. I have been trying for the last week and a half to lower my FC slowly which is stuck up at 6.5ppm (with 80ppm CYA). I am down to 3 hours of pump run time at 50% cell output. My target is to get to 3-3.5ppm FC. Historical speaking, at this time last year (same water temps), my pumps were running closer to 6 hours per day at 35% output to maintain an FC above 5ppm. So it would appear that I am generating chlorine for 1.5hrs/day now (as opposed to 2.1hrs/day last year) and I'm getting higher FC levels for it. This all preliminary data as I need to continue to monitor over the coming months to see if any meaningful trend emerges.
I calculated your theoretical minimum PO4 level to be ~4,200ppb based on the products stated performance and your initial starting point at 37,000ppb. Hopefully you get below 10,000ppb. If not, maybe you should contact SeaKlear and see if they'd be willing to throw you an extra gallon for your troubles
Yes, the lanthanum chloride solution is designed to be acidic because transition metal salts are not stable at neutral pH. They tend to form hydroxides and oxide at neutral pH.
AUSpool,
Borates are, at best, an algae growth inhibitor as not all algae are affected by boron and, at 50ppm, the boron concentration is well below the lethal threshold for most species. The primary purpose of borates is to add additional pH buffering to the water which has its biggest effect inside the SWG cell since it can cut the pH rise by half. This can give most cells a decent boost in efficiency as they are much less likely to develop calcium scale on the plates.
As far as my own low phosphate experimentation goes, my pool remains crystal clear. I have been trying for the last week and a half to lower my FC slowly which is stuck up at 6.5ppm (with 80ppm CYA). I am down to 3 hours of pump run time at 50% cell output. My target is to get to 3-3.5ppm FC. Historical speaking, at this time last year (same water temps), my pumps were running closer to 6 hours per day at 35% output to maintain an FC above 5ppm. So it would appear that I am generating chlorine for 1.5hrs/day now (as opposed to 2.1hrs/day last year) and I'm getting higher FC levels for it. This all preliminary data as I need to continue to monitor over the coming months to see if any meaningful trend emerges.
This is one of those threads that makes me love TFP. Been reading along, learning a lot. Keep it up!
Not sure if I can upload it or not, but hubby made me a little spreadsheet of that equation...solving for calcium level at which phosphate scaling might occur...is there an FTP area I can upload it to here?
If not, I'll try to figure out a location to call it from in a link tomorrow.
If not, I'll try to figure out a location to call it from in a link tomorrow.
OKAY, things are COMPLETELY ASKEW here and I may fire the pool girl...oh, wait, that's me
Well, I can't explain our findings except to say there is something very wrong going on around here. I'm afraid I've completely failed to produce any kind of meaningful result for anyone else whatsoever.
First off, here's where we're at this am:
FC 5
CC 0
PH 7.4
TA 80
CH 40
CYA - 40* this looked lower than last test
BORATES 40-ish -* this looked lower than starting before test
Copper .3
Iron .3 - back down .1 ppm from higher test mid week
SALT - 2400, BOTH the strips and Taylor kit corroborated, as did Hach meter at pool tech co's -- so I lost about 500 salt...presumably vacuuming to waste
PHOSPHATES: 50,000 PPB?????!!!! SERIOUSLY?
First, we tested -- using the Hagen aquarium kit that uses 3 reagents, goes to 5,000 ppb, with a 6-tone color chart just like the pool kit. We used a 2 mil dropper for measuring with great care, plus several 5 mil test tubes. We used distilled water from a jug.
We did the following combos, with the pool water always being at 5 mil until the 50:1 test, at which point I dropped the pool water to 1 mL.
1:1 Dilution
1:2 Dilution
1:3 Dilution
1:4 Dilution
1:5 Dilution
1:6 Dilution - STILL a solid and deeper blue than the 5 ppm or 5,000 ppb color mark...though starting to lighten compared to first few dilutions.
Then hubby threatened to go on strike if I didn't let him test 10:1 dilution.
In 10:1 dilution, the color tone looked around 3.5-4 ish just like it did BEFORE WE TREATED WITH THE SEAKLEAR.
So then I tried to figure things out by doing a very careful whopping 50:1 dilution and testing with Taylor Pool Phosphate drop test that goes to 1,000. You guessed it, got color tone for 1,000 -- x 50 for 50,000.
Hubby, using same sample with Hagen aquarium kit test which is sensistive to 5, ALSO got a color tone that at 50:1 suggesting 50,000 ppb.
SO THEN I WENT TO THE POOL STORE TO TEST IT AND THEY TOLD ME IT WAS BETWEEN 500 TO 1000 with their "PRO" test strips that go to 2,000. IT NEVER WENT DARKER THAN 1,000 PPB.
So, I'm just kind of losing my mind by now. I am pretty certain there is not really any way on earth my PO4 could be as low as 500 - 1000 even after 2 gallons of phosphate remover, but I am now headed off to another pool store that tests with "a powder" to see what they get just to try to triangulate these disparate results
BUT FIRST, I tested the DISTILLED WATER we're using for dilution at home and get somewhere between 125 ppb and 200 ppb on the Taylor Pool PO4 test. So the distilled water is not the culprit.
PET THEORIES:
1. Hubby's estimated 37,000 ppb was wildly inaccurate and we were dramatically higher. No way to find out now. Do think he was multiplying by 10 when it should have been 11 but that only accounts for another 5K.
2. There is something in my water that is interfering with reagents. Metal? That would be ironic!
3. Pool store's test strip is useless. In which case many people who think they have "x" amount of phosphate likely have much more????
4. PO4 testing is a dark art.
5. Water temp, from 72 degrees on initial treatment, dropping 10 degrees over 6 days, arrested reaction? Or vendor sold me expired SeaKlear? But it went milky, meaning there was def lanthanam in there!
6. Lack of calcium to bond with and carry out PO4 (per Jack's magic tech theory) negatively affected efficacy.
7. ALL OF THE ABOVE PLUS SOME OTHER KIND OF VOODOO.
So, I'm heading off to try one more test and scratch my head, do another calculation, and possibly sadly determine that I'm calling off the SWG install Monday and returning the unit until such time my liner fails and I truck in fresh water.
OR I might decide to go ahead and just see what happens...if I even got a year and a few months out of a cell, it'd be something of a wash based on my chlorine cost (use 12% refils). So I wouldn't actually mind that for the convenience of constant dosing IF IT produced adequately. I just don't want to deal with sporadic mystery failure/hassle.
I am a little bit tempted to just go ahead anyway.
I will consider all votes on this one, so feel free to throw in your two cents!
Well, I can't explain our findings except to say there is something very wrong going on around here. I'm afraid I've completely failed to produce any kind of meaningful result for anyone else whatsoever.
First off, here's where we're at this am:
FC 5
CC 0
PH 7.4
TA 80
CH 40
CYA - 40* this looked lower than last test
BORATES 40-ish -* this looked lower than starting before test
Copper .3
Iron .3 - back down .1 ppm from higher test mid week
SALT - 2400, BOTH the strips and Taylor kit corroborated, as did Hach meter at pool tech co's -- so I lost about 500 salt...presumably vacuuming to waste
PHOSPHATES: 50,000 PPB?????!!!! SERIOUSLY?
First, we tested -- using the Hagen aquarium kit that uses 3 reagents, goes to 5,000 ppb, with a 6-tone color chart just like the pool kit. We used a 2 mil dropper for measuring with great care, plus several 5 mil test tubes. We used distilled water from a jug.
We did the following combos, with the pool water always being at 5 mil until the 50:1 test, at which point I dropped the pool water to 1 mL.
1:1 Dilution
1:2 Dilution
1:3 Dilution
1:4 Dilution
1:5 Dilution
1:6 Dilution - STILL a solid and deeper blue than the 5 ppm or 5,000 ppb color mark...though starting to lighten compared to first few dilutions.
Then hubby threatened to go on strike if I didn't let him test 10:1 dilution.
In 10:1 dilution, the color tone looked around 3.5-4 ish just like it did BEFORE WE TREATED WITH THE SEAKLEAR.
So then I tried to figure things out by doing a very careful whopping 50:1 dilution and testing with Taylor Pool Phosphate drop test that goes to 1,000. You guessed it, got color tone for 1,000 -- x 50 for 50,000.
Hubby, using same sample with Hagen aquarium kit test which is sensistive to 5, ALSO got a color tone that at 50:1 suggesting 50,000 ppb.
SO THEN I WENT TO THE POOL STORE TO TEST IT AND THEY TOLD ME IT WAS BETWEEN 500 TO 1000 with their "PRO" test strips that go to 2,000. IT NEVER WENT DARKER THAN 1,000 PPB.
So, I'm just kind of losing my mind by now. I am pretty certain there is not really any way on earth my PO4 could be as low as 500 - 1000 even after 2 gallons of phosphate remover, but I am now headed off to another pool store that tests with "a powder" to see what they get just to try to triangulate these disparate results
BUT FIRST, I tested the DISTILLED WATER we're using for dilution at home and get somewhere between 125 ppb and 200 ppb on the Taylor Pool PO4 test. So the distilled water is not the culprit.
PET THEORIES:
1. Hubby's estimated 37,000 ppb was wildly inaccurate and we were dramatically higher. No way to find out now. Do think he was multiplying by 10 when it should have been 11 but that only accounts for another 5K.
2. There is something in my water that is interfering with reagents. Metal? That would be ironic!
3. Pool store's test strip is useless. In which case many people who think they have "x" amount of phosphate likely have much more????
4. PO4 testing is a dark art.
5. Water temp, from 72 degrees on initial treatment, dropping 10 degrees over 6 days, arrested reaction? Or vendor sold me expired SeaKlear? But it went milky, meaning there was def lanthanam in there!
6. Lack of calcium to bond with and carry out PO4 (per Jack's magic tech theory) negatively affected efficacy.
7. ALL OF THE ABOVE PLUS SOME OTHER KIND OF VOODOO.
So, I'm heading off to try one more test and scratch my head, do another calculation, and possibly sadly determine that I'm calling off the SWG install Monday and returning the unit until such time my liner fails and I truck in fresh water.
OR I might decide to go ahead and just see what happens...if I even got a year and a few months out of a cell, it'd be something of a wash based on my chlorine cost (use 12% refils). So I wouldn't actually mind that for the convenience of constant dosing IF IT produced adequately. I just don't want to deal with sporadic mystery failure/hassle.
I am a little bit tempted to just go ahead anyway.
I will consider all votes on this one, so feel free to throw in your two cents!