Plumbing design

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There are some that say that with a large enough blower there's no need for a Hartford loop at all, but I don't understand this logic. Plumbing a Hartford Loop is not difficult and it eliminates the water from getting into the airline to begin with.
 
I am sorry for so many questions. I have tried to research online about plumbing these jets around my steps and a hartford loop. There is very limited information, if any, on how to plumb this situation without a booster pump. Therefore, I do not understand completely how to do it.

In my simple mind, I had assumed that I would have a venturi tee in all four locations where I want the jets. Two on the wall of the side of the steps and two on the face of the second or third step shooting into the pool. I had planned to tie the waterline for all 4 returns together in series on their own line from the pump teminating in the last return from the pump.

Also, I assumed that plumbed up to the surface of the decking would be an air line where I would put a screw in fitting to adjust the airflow to each jetted return. In my mind, I assumed that each of these air lines would simply be a vertical pipe straight up from the tee flush with the decking and that each air line would be independent of each other one.

However, based upon the information you have given me, I am wondering if I am wrong and perhaps the air lines can also be tied together in series and maybe one single adjustable deck level fitting to adjust the air flow to all four jets. If that is true, at what point would the hartford loop be inserted? Would it go before the first jet? Again, sorry for the questions, but I cannot find anything online to guide me. If you know of a resource and can just point me in a direction, I will gladly read it on my own to design he plumbing for the step returns.

Here is the area of my pool I am discussing. The steps are 16 feet in length. I will not be using a booster pump for the air line.
venturi step returns.jpg
 
You are on the right track. The Hartford loop gets installed between the jets and the intake for the air. If plumbed in series or a loop, one Hartford is needed. If you plumb each with their own air line, each would also need a Hartford.

Depending on where you install the intake, you may not need a Hartford at all since the intake is basically serving the same purpose and the run is short enough that any water in the line can be easily cleared.
 
bdavis466 said:
You are on the right track. The Hartford loop gets installed between the jets and the intake for the air. If plumbed in series or a loop, one Hartford is needed. If you plumb each with their own air line, each would also need a Hartford.

Depending on where you install the intake, you may not need a Hartford at all since the intake is basically serving the same purpose and the run is short enough that any water in the line can be easily cleared.
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Is there any advantage or disadvantage putting the air lines in series versus a separate pipe plumbed up on each one independently?
 
Independent would give the most adjustability and you'd always have more than enough air.

In series there's only one adjustment and would be difficult to get the jets to run equally. Most spas are done in series and usually there is no issue so long as the pump has enough flow and the air line supplies enough air.
 
bdavis466 said:
Independent would give the most adjustability and you'd always have more than enough air.

In series there's only one adjustment and would be difficult to get the jets to run equally. Most spas are done in series and usually there is no issue so long as the pump has enough flow and the air line supplies enough air.
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Thank you sir!

how bad would noise be on 4 independent, do you think?
 

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You don't need a Hartford loop if the air lines are near the jets. If you wanted to take a single air line back to the equipment pad, only then should you need a Hartford loop.

The advantage of individual air line control at the deck is that each user can control the amount of air in their own jet.

The advantage of a single air line is that the noise caused by the jets is moved away from the deck.

Is your goal to get a spa experience on the steps of your pool?

Some have had leaks when penetrating a fiberglass step with spa jets so if you do this, make sure you can easily repair them.
 
i'd like something relatively spa-like, yes. If that means needing to use an air booster pump, i can. I will be tying the water lines to these 4 returns together and can adjust the regular pool circulation returns and this line as wellwith the jandy valves at the pump when I want to get more flow to these around the steps and run them like a spa.
I am not penetrating fiberglass. I am penetrating steel wall and steel steps with vinyl over the steps.
 
Having jets at the top step are going to be very low on the back or where you thinking of the second step down?

Have you thought about a bench seat along one of the pool walls instead?
 
i have run 2 inch pipe for all my skimmers and returns. Before I fired my pool guy he had run a 1.5 inch flexible line for the main drains under the pool wall to be in place before they concrete collar was poured. I really didn't notice the diameter difference.

How much will this affect things? Should I be concerned with replacing it with a 2 inch line? Should I just up size it to 2 inch pipe in as much of the run to the pump as I can, once it is through the wall?
 
A standard MD is not of much use anyway and could have been left out without much impact so I doubt you would notice any difference.
 
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