Getting ready for O/B Bicarbonate Startup

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Thank you for the help. I came down with some sort of flu yesterday evening and am pretty much out of commission for this today. But my husband is at the store picking up a mask in case he feels more more comfortable with it on. I figure I'll help introduce him to the testing and PoolMath, but he's going to be dosing the pool on his own. Everything is for a reason, but I would not have picked today to be sick!
 
I am going to take the contrary view, you do NOT want to use a mask.

We had a thread last year of a fellow who when out and bought a breathing mask with an acid filter cartridge that for over his mouth and nose. He wore goggles over his eyes. The mask eliminated the vapors but did something far worse, it eliminated his sense of smell and, in turn, eliminated his recoil reflex. His eye goggles were the breathable type. So, without a recoil reflex to cause his head to turn away, the acid vapors hit his eyes and he did not pull back. His corneas suffered mild chemical burns from the vapors. The only correct type of mask to use with acid vapors is a full face style mask that must be professionally fitted and checked for a tight seal. No other PPE's should be substituted.

The moral of the story is this - do not go overboard with the protective gear. Splash resistant goggles are about all you need. While the acid vapors are pungent and harsh smelling, they are not near any concentration that will be harmful to you or the baby. Believe me, your recoil reflex will be more than sufficient to protect you.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk,16k gal SWG pool (All Pentair), QuadDE100 Filter, Taylor K-2006
 
JoyfulNoise said:
I am going to take the contrary view, you do NOT want to use a mask.

We had a thread last year of a fellow who when out and bought a breathing mask with an acid filter cartridge that for over his mouth and nose. He wore goggles over his eyes. The mask eliminated the vapors but did something far worse, it eliminated his sense of smell and, in turn, eliminated his recoil reflex. His eye goggles were the breathable type. So, without a recoil reflex to cause his head to turn away, the acid vapors hit his eyes and he did not pull back. His corneas suffered mild chemical burns from the vapors. The only correct type of mask to use with acid vapors is a full face style mask that must be professionally fitted and checked for a tight seal. No other PPE's should be substituted.

The moral of the story is this - do not go overboard with the protective gear. Splash resistant goggles are about all you need. While the acid vapors are pungent and harsh smelling, they are not near any concentration that will be harmful to you or the baby. Believe me, your recoil reflex will be more than sufficient to protect you.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk,16k gal SWG pool (All Pentair), QuadDE100 Filter, Taylor K-2006
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Matt, I had forgotten about that........VERY good point!

Jamie the pool will be fine. You have a good hubby that can/will follow directions. It will all work out in the end!

Kim
 
We have startup-Tec easycare that plaster guys gave us. They said to put half in when pool was half full and then rest when full. It is for calcium buildup. Should we do this?

I'm getting Jack's Magic Magenta. Can I use this with the Start-up Tec together too?

Thanks!
 
Have you decided to not do the bicarb startup?
If you are going to do the bicarb start, then dont add that stuff nor the jacks magic.

In any case though, I would not use the startup tec because the MSDS sheet says the ingredients are proprietay. So who knows whats in it. A TFP mantra is if you dont know whats in the product, then dont add it. Only add what your pool needs.
 
Jacks Magenta is polyacrylic acid. It's a negatively charged polyanion and its fine to add. Over time it just breaks down into CO2 and water.

The StartUp Tech stuff is an unknown. It's high pH and one of the ingredients is sodium hydroxide to raise the pH. Based on that its probably a phosphonate scale inhibitor (HEDP). When it breaks down it leaves phosphates behind.

You don't really need either but if I had to choose I would use the Jacks Magenta stuff over the Easy Care stuff.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk,16k gal SWG pool (All Pentair), QuadDE100 Filter, Taylor K-2006
 
Thanks guys. I'm barely back to life and still relapsing, but at least feeling somewhat improved. For better or worse, both products got put in the pool. I'd have to look back, and it may have been in my build thread, but I thought I recalled each of those products being recommended to address possible metals, so I told my husband to go for it. With me sick he has been taking care of everything (whatta guy!) and we are still following the bicarbonate startup method. The pool was completely filled yesterday and is staying on track as we begin testing the pH and TA twice a day now. You all were right about going through the TA reagents! I'll be reording those tonight.

Big shoutout to Brian for his awesome help through all of this. Thank you!!!
 
Is this normal? The TA keeps going up. We targeted 275 and it seemed to be there once the pool was filled. We've been checking PH and TA twice a day since, and as the TA keeps going up, we've done nothing to it, since all I know is how to bring it up with baking soda. The PH rises slightly and we bring it down again with MA. But I'm concerned about the TA. What am I doing wrong? What should I do?

My husband is back at work today and this is falling to me now. Thanks for any help and advice.
 

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Sounds to me more like testing error. Try using a 10ml sample, 1 drop R-0007, 3 drops R-0008, and count each drop of R-0009= 25 PPM.

If your TA truly is 325, lower the pH to 7.6-7.7 with acid. This will also lower the TA by about 10 or so. Even with a TA of 325, I get a CSI of just over +0.6 so you aren't in terrible shape.

Do not add anymore baking soda unless your TA falls below 200-225.
 
atttech-2 said:
Did you mean to say bring it UP with baking soda? or were you referring to the slight PH rise with baking soda?
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Yes, good catch. That is what I meant, and I'll go edit my original post. Thanks!

- - - Updated - - -

bdavis466 said:
Sounds to me more like testing error. Try using a 10ml sample, 1 drop R-0007, 3 drops R-0008, and count each drop of R-0009= 25 PPM.

If your TA truly is 325, lower the pH to 7.6-7.7 with acid. This will also lower the TA by about 10 or so. Even with a TA of 325, I get a CSI of just over +0.6 so you aren't in terrible shape.

Do not add anymore baking soda unless your TA falls below 200-225.
Click to expand...

Thanks, Brian. Testing with the smaller sample gave me a TA of 300 whereas I was at 350 with the 25 ml sample, so you're probably right about testing error. I added the gallon of MA as you suggested on the phone and will now test using the 10 ml sample. As long as the TA keeps going up using this smaller sample, I'll target the lower PH. I'll keep you posted. Thanks for the invaluable help!
 
We just tested again after the addition of 1 gallon of MA this morning.

PH= 7.5 (down from 8.0 this morning)
TA= 300 (same as this morning's 10 ml sample test)

So based on these results, do we do nothing for now?

Thanks for the help!

***
I probably should add that I tested my CH since OnBalance was curious where it stood now that my pool is full, and it is at 150. That is down from the 175 I got from my fill water. Is it normal to come down? (Not sure if my adding that Startup Tec would have anything to do with it.). Do I need to update PoolMath with this new number?
 
It is normal for many pools that the CH lowers slightly. No worry there. It may go back up again soon.
Adding Startup Tec will not cause problems.
So far, I think you are on target. Good job!!
 
It is, in theory, possible for sequestrants to affect the CH test. It all depends on the relative strength of the sequestrants involved. If the sequestrant used is able to hold onto the divalent calcium ion (and there's nothing in the test procedure that would strip the calcium from the sequestrant) than that amount of calcium being held by the sequestrant will not be detected by the CH test.

Since you used both sequestrants (Jacks Magic and the Startup Tec), I'm not at all surprised by your magically disappearing CH value.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk,16k gal SWG pool (All Pentair), QuadDE100 Filter, Taylor K-2006
 
The CH drop and TA rise is surely related to the Startup-Tec as well as the Jacks Magic added (as if Matt could ever be wrong). Given your current pool chemistry numbers, a TA rise is not really possible without an outside upwards means of influence which is likely what you are seeing. Keep us posted on your numbers. Everything you have done so far will prove to be very beneficial.

Is it possible that the TA could have potentially been raised too high near the completion of the fill?

Regardless, the numbers you have mentioned are not far enough from the realm to normality to cause too much concern. Keep up with frequent testing and things should somewhat stabilize very soon.
 

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