Can't stand the electric bills anymore...

[taekwondodo]

So - I have a ~$700-800/month electric bill and just can't stand it anymore. There are a lot of other toy's I'm working on to bring the bills down, but the pool-pump adds $3-400 a month on top of the other toys.
Because the bills are so high, I'm only running the main pump 4-5 hours/day when I know I should be running it much longer. It is a 2-HP Whisperflow (see sig). Right now, I have a spare 1HP (I believe) pump that has only a year's worth of use on it (it was for my Pond - highly oversized for the pond). Can I/Should I just swap it (the 1HP for the 2HP) and run it the full 8 hours?

Over the longer-term, I'll be good looking at a dual-speed pump: Can anyone recommend one that works with a Jandy Aqualink?

In this economy, need to keep an eye on my Franklin$.

Thanks,

- Jeff

 

[JohnT]

Running a pump that size 4-5 hours a day would only cost me $1.34 a day. Your electric rates would have to be insane for it to cost that much. To cost $350 /month, your electric rate would have to be about $1 per kilowatt hour.

 

[JasonLion]

Swapping the pump will help reduce your electrical usage and probably won't cause any other problems. As JohnT mentions, that pump alone can't account for your $300-400 pool electrical costs. Still switching it will provide some savings.

 

[257WbyMag]

taekwondodo,

You can also check with your power company and see when their "peak hours" occur. I ended up knocking a goodly amount of change off of my electric bill by setting the pump to run only during off-peak hours. When I learned that I was paying almost double the rate per kWh between 3:00 p.m. and 8:00 p.m., I quickly changed my timer to avoid running the pump during that time.

 

[257WbyMag]

Running a pump that size 4-5 hours a day would only cost me $1.34 a day. Your electric rates would have to be insane for it to cost that much. To cost $350 /month, your electric rate would have to be about $1 per kilowatt hour.

JohnT,

Is there a formula to calculate this information based on run time and pump size?

 

[taekwondodo]

taekwondodo,

You can also check with your power company and see when their "peak hours" occur. I ended up knocking a goodly amount of change off of my electric bill by setting the pump to run only during off-peak hours. When I learned that I was paying almost double the rate per kWh between 3:00 p.m. and 8:00 p.m., I quickly changed my timer to avoid running the pump during that time.

Did they come out and install a "time-of-day" meter? I don't think my meter does that.

Right now in California (I don't have my Ele bill in front of me...) IIRC, I'm paying as much as $0.45/kWh when I'm over what PGE defines as "baseline" usage.

- Jeff

 

[taekwondodo]

Swapping the pump will help reduce your electrical usage and probably won't cause any other problems. As JohnT mentions, that pump alone can't account for your $300-400 pool electrical costs. Still switching it will provide some savings.

The increase in ele is pretty consistent when summer comes... Other than occasional AC, things that run in the summer include:
1/3rd hp Pond Pump 3 hours a day, 1/8 hp UV Pump+40W UV bulb - continuous
2HP Pool Pump ~6 hours a day, Booster pump (1/2 HP, I think) 2 hours a day...

 

[JasonLion]

A 2 HP full rated WhisperFlo pump draws around 2.3 KWatts. Exact usage depends on the TDH, but should be around there in any case.

2.3 KWatts times 6 hours = 13.8 KWh/day = 421 KWh/month
421 KWh/month times 0.45 per KWh = $190/month

The savings from using a 1 HP pump will be fairly small, perhaps 10-15% if you get the run time just right (as low as possible).

The largest possible electrical savings would come from using a variable speed pump like the IntelliFlo. If you ran an IntelliFlo at around 30 GPM 24 hours a day you should be able to save somewhere around 40% to 50%.

 

[257WbyMag]

Did they come out and install a "time-of-day" meter? I don't think my meter does that.

Right now in California (I don't have my Ele bill in front of me...) IIRC, I'm paying as much as $0.45/kWh when I'm over what PGE defines as "baseline" usage.

- Jeff

Well, yes. We have had a time-of-day meter as long as we have been here. We don't run any heavy use stuff that we can avoid using during peak hours.

A 2 HP full rated WhisperFlo pump draws around 2.3 KWatts. Exact usage depends on the TDH, but should be around there in any case.

2.3 KWatts times 6 hours = 13.8 KWh/day = 421 KWh/month
421 KWh/month times 0.45 per KWh = $190/month

The savings from using a 1 HP pump will be fairly small, perhaps 10-15% if you get the run time just right (as low as possible).

The largest possible electrical savings would come from using a variable speed pump like the IntelliFlo. If you ran an IntelliFlo at around 30 GPM 24 hours a day you should be able to save somewhere around 40% to 50%.

Thanks Jason. That's good information to know.

 

[jjdurrant]

WOW.... that's crazy... my pump MAYBE costs $100 a month if I run 12 hrs a day

 

[frustratedpoolmom]

My elec bill goes up between $20 and $50 in the summer per month, depending on how hot it gets and how much the airconditioning is on...I run my 2speed on low 24/7 and I'm waiting to see what impact it has on my elec bill this month, as no airconditioning at this time of year, so I should be able to pinpoint the pump's use for a change.

 

[taekwondodo]

So - here's my electric bill from last month:
Baseline - 403.2 KWH @ $0.11531
to 130% of BL 120.9 KWH @ $0.13109
to 200% of BL 282.2 KWH @ $0.25974
to 300% of BL 403.2 KWH @ $0.37866
Over 300% of BL 435.4 KWH @ $0.44098

Total Usage last month, 1,645 KWH (1,228 KWH this month last year) = $480.34

For a reference point, I looked at my Brother's bill in February (He lives in Washington State) and he pays around $0.07 per KWH.

 

[Malcolm]

You might want to have someone come out and do an energy audit on your house. We also live in Northern California, have a 2400 sq ft air-conditioned house occupied by two adults and a teenage daughter and we use less than half the electricity you do.

 

[taekwondodo]

I'm starting to wonder what the average-daily-PC power usage is.

We have three PCs that are on almost all of the time - I can't get the kids to shut the Dang things off/standby.
Call that ~225W total

Other toys I have that suck-up the juice:
175W MH over my reef-tank 6 hours a day, plus ~55W pump/light on 24x7
3x150W MH over my freashwater-tank 6 hours a day, plus ~50W pump on 24x7
100W Pump and UV for the pond, 24x7
350W Pump for the Pond, 4 hours/day

Rounding this, I think it's about 600 KWh before I get to the pool and "standard" other things.

 

[Crzyfrlss1]

After reading this whole thread, I have a question.

Is your pool pump 120 or 240 volt?

I know that a 240 volt will use half the amps a that a 120 volt pump will and the bill will be lower.

Now that I have an extra 240 volt circuit here I plan to use it sometime in the near future to lower my bill as well.

The same logic applies to AC units as well, and they work more efficiently on 240 volt circuits I'm told. But with half the electrical usage as a 120 volt.

 

[JohnT]

After reading this whole thread, I have a question.

Is your pool pump 120 or 240 volt?

I know that a 240 volt will use half the amps a that a 120 volt pump will and the bill will be lower.

Now that I have an extra 240 volt circuit here I plan to use it sometime in the near future to lower my bill as well.

The same logic applies to AC units as well, and they work more efficiently on 240 volt circuits I'm told. But with half the electrical usage as a 120 volt.

No, that is not true. 220/240 uses half the current, but you pay for power, not current. Power is roughly voltage times current, so 240Vx10A=120VX20A. Cost is exactly the same. The advantage of the higher voltage is in the smaller wiring you can use and the reduced losses in long runs due to the lower current.

 

[Crzyfrlss1]

After reading this whole thread, I have a question.

Is your pool pump 120 or 240 volt?

I know that a 240 volt will use half the amps a that a 120 volt pump will and the bill will be lower.

Now that I have an extra 240 volt circuit here I plan to use it sometime in the near future to lower my bill as well.

The same logic applies to AC units as well, and they work more efficiently on 240 volt circuits I'm told. But with half the electrical usage as a 120 volt.

No, that is not true. 220/240 uses half the current, but you pay for power, not current. Power is roughly voltage times current, so 240Vx10A=120VX20A. Cost is exactly the same. The advantage of the higher voltage is in the smaller wiring you can use and the reduced losses in long runs due to the lower current.

If that is the case, then why is it when I look at the specs. of various pool pumps it states.

For example.
Amp usage.
120V 16 amps.
240 8 amps.

I always thought if you were using less amps, you we're using less power and the meter would turn a bit slower :?

 

[JasonLion]

You pay by the watt, not by the amp. Watts = amps * volts.

120V at 16 amps is 1920 watts.
240V at 8 amps is also 1920 watts.

The two devices above draws the exact same number of watts, even though the voltage is different, so they cost the same to operate. The only difference in watts is in the wiring between the equipment and the main breaker panel. Higher voltages lose less in the wiring, so it is more efficient.

 

[taekwondodo]

Higher voltages lose less in the wiring, so it is more efficient.

Methinks I'm going to look at a way to run 2400 volts to the pump and make it 10x more efficient!!!

 

[Crzyfrlss1]

You pay by the watt, not by the amp. Watts = amps * volts.

120V at 16 amps is 1920 watts.
240V at 8 amps is also 1920 watts.

The two devices above draws the exact same number of watts, even though the voltage is different, so they cost the same to operate. The only difference in watts is in the wiring between the equipment and the main breaker panel. Higher voltages lose less in the wiring, so it is more efficient.

Thanks for explaining all that, now I understand'