Become a TFP Supporter Pool Math Forum Rules Pool School
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 22

Thread: Can't stand the electric bills anymore...

  1. Back To Top    #1

    Can't stand the electric bills anymore...

    So - I have a ~$700-800/month electric bill and just can't stand it anymore. There are a lot of other toy's I'm working on to bring the bills down, but the pool-pump adds $3-400 a month on top of the other toys.
    Because the bills are so high, I'm only running the main pump 4-5 hours/day when I know I should be running it much longer. It is a 2-HP Whisperflow (see sig). Right now, I have a spare 1HP (I believe) pump that has only a year's worth of use on it (it was for my Pond - highly oversized for the pond). Can I/Should I just swap it (the 1HP for the 2HP) and run it the full 8 hours?

    Over the longer-term, I'll be good looking at a dual-speed pump: Can anyone recommend one that works with a Jandy Aqualink?

    In this economy, need to keep an eye on my Franklin$.

    Thanks,

    - Jeff
    ~45Kg Pool with attached Spa, NSP-72 DE, Minmax 400 Heater, Tahoe Blue Pebbletech, Jandy SWG via Aqualink RS-8, The Pool Cleaner (black)
    Pumps: X3 Hybrid Pump (switches to SPA), 2HP Spa (additional, when SPA is on), and a 1HP For Waterfall
    8, 4x12 Solar Panels on the roof of the pool-house (~12' up)
    CAPTAIN JAMES T. KIRK: "I'M SORRY. I CAN'T HEAR YOU OVER THE SOUND OF HOW AWESOME I AM" (Thanks to TFP!)

  2. Back To Top    #2
    Mod Squad JohnT's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    SW Indiana
    Posts
    8,617

    Re: Can't stand the electric bills anymore...

    Running a pump that size 4-5 hours a day would only cost me $1.34 a day. Your electric rates would have to be insane for it to cost that much. To cost $350 /month, your electric rate would have to be about $1 per kilowatt hour.
    TFP Moderator
    20K Gallon 20X36 Vinyl Inground
    Hayward S244T Sand Filter with 1HP Whisperflo Pump. Liquidator C-201 and Solar Heat

  3. Back To Top    #3
    JasonLion's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Silver Spring, MD
    Posts
    37,887

    Re: Can't stand the electric bills anymore...

    Swapping the pump will help reduce your electrical usage and probably won't cause any other problems. As JohnT mentions, that pump alone can't account for your $300-400 pool electrical costs. Still switching it will provide some savings.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

  4. Back To Top    #4

    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Flower Mound, TX
    Posts
    5,062

    Re: Can't stand the electric bills anymore...

    taekwondodo,

    You can also check with your power company and see when their "peak hours" occur. I ended up knocking a goodly amount of change off of my electric bill by setting the pump to run only during off-peak hours. When I learned that I was paying almost double the rate per kWh between 3:00 p.m. and 8:00 p.m., I quickly changed my timer to avoid running the pump during that time.
    10K gallon IG gunite with waterfall; Pentair CC320P filter; WhisperFlo 2 HP pump
    TF Test Kits - Pool Math - Pool School
    "It depends."- JohnT

  5. Back To Top    #5

    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Flower Mound, TX
    Posts
    5,062

    Re: Can't stand the electric bills anymore...

    Running a pump that size 4-5 hours a day would only cost me $1.34 a day. Your electric rates would have to be insane for it to cost that much. To cost $350 /month, your electric rate would have to be about $1 per kilowatt hour.
    JohnT,

    Is there a formula to calculate this information based on run time and pump size?
    10K gallon IG gunite with waterfall; Pentair CC320P filter; WhisperFlo 2 HP pump
    TF Test Kits - Pool Math - Pool School
    "It depends."- JohnT

  6. Back To Top    #6

    Re: Can't stand the electric bills anymore...

    Quote Originally Posted by 257WbyMag
    taekwondodo,

    You can also check with your power company and see when their "peak hours" occur. I ended up knocking a goodly amount of change off of my electric bill by setting the pump to run only during off-peak hours. When I learned that I was paying almost double the rate per kWh between 3:00 p.m. and 8:00 p.m., I quickly changed my timer to avoid running the pump during that time.
    Did they come out and install a "time-of-day" meter? I don't think my meter does that.

    Right now in California (I don't have my Ele bill in front of me...) IIRC, I'm paying as much as $0.45/kWh when I'm over what PGE defines as "baseline" usage.

    - Jeff
    ~45Kg Pool with attached Spa, NSP-72 DE, Minmax 400 Heater, Tahoe Blue Pebbletech, Jandy SWG via Aqualink RS-8, The Pool Cleaner (black)
    Pumps: X3 Hybrid Pump (switches to SPA), 2HP Spa (additional, when SPA is on), and a 1HP For Waterfall
    8, 4x12 Solar Panels on the roof of the pool-house (~12' up)
    CAPTAIN JAMES T. KIRK: "I'M SORRY. I CAN'T HEAR YOU OVER THE SOUND OF HOW AWESOME I AM" (Thanks to TFP!)

  7. Back To Top    #7

    Re: Can't stand the electric bills anymore...

    Quote Originally Posted by JasonLion
    Swapping the pump will help reduce your electrical usage and probably won't cause any other problems. As JohnT mentions, that pump alone can't account for your $300-400 pool electrical costs. Still switching it will provide some savings.
    The increase in ele is pretty consistent when summer comes... Other than occasional AC, things that run in the summer include:
    1/3rd hp Pond Pump 3 hours a day, 1/8 hp UV Pump+40W UV bulb - continuous
    2HP Pool Pump ~6 hours a day, Booster pump (1/2 HP, I think) 2 hours a day...
    ~45Kg Pool with attached Spa, NSP-72 DE, Minmax 400 Heater, Tahoe Blue Pebbletech, Jandy SWG via Aqualink RS-8, The Pool Cleaner (black)
    Pumps: X3 Hybrid Pump (switches to SPA), 2HP Spa (additional, when SPA is on), and a 1HP For Waterfall
    8, 4x12 Solar Panels on the roof of the pool-house (~12' up)
    CAPTAIN JAMES T. KIRK: "I'M SORRY. I CAN'T HEAR YOU OVER THE SOUND OF HOW AWESOME I AM" (Thanks to TFP!)

  8. Back To Top    #8
    JasonLion's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Silver Spring, MD
    Posts
    37,887

    Re: Can't stand the electric bills anymore...

    A 2 HP full rated WhisperFlo pump draws around 2.3 KWatts. Exact usage depends on the TDH, but should be around there in any case.

    2.3 KWatts times 6 hours = 13.8 KWh/day = 421 KWh/month
    421 KWh/month times 0.45 per KWh = $190/month

    The savings from using a 1 HP pump will be fairly small, perhaps 10-15% if you get the run time just right (as low as possible).

    The largest possible electrical savings would come from using a variable speed pump like the IntelliFlo. If you ran an IntelliFlo at around 30 GPM 24 hours a day you should be able to save somewhere around 40% to 50%.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

  9. Back To Top    #9

    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Flower Mound, TX
    Posts
    5,062

    Re: Can't stand the electric bills anymore...

    Did they come out and install a "time-of-day" meter? I don't think my meter does that.

    Right now in California (I don't have my Ele bill in front of me...) IIRC, I'm paying as much as $0.45/kWh when I'm over what PGE defines as "baseline" usage.

    - Jeff
    Well, yes. We have had a time-of-day meter as long as we have been here. We don't run any heavy use stuff that we can avoid using during peak hours.

    A 2 HP full rated WhisperFlo pump draws around 2.3 KWatts. Exact usage depends on the TDH, but should be around there in any case.

    2.3 KWatts times 6 hours = 13.8 KWh/day = 421 KWh/month
    421 KWh/month times 0.45 per KWh = $190/month

    The savings from using a 1 HP pump will be fairly small, perhaps 10-15% if you get the run time just right (as low as possible).

    The largest possible electrical savings would come from using a variable speed pump like the IntelliFlo. If you ran an IntelliFlo at around 30 GPM 24 hours a day you should be able to save somewhere around 40% to 50%.
    Thanks Jason. That's good information to know.
    10K gallon IG gunite with waterfall; Pentair CC320P filter; WhisperFlo 2 HP pump
    TF Test Kits - Pool Math - Pool School
    "It depends."- JohnT

  10. Back To Top    #10

    Re: Can't stand the electric bills anymore...

    WOW.... that's crazy... my pump MAYBE costs $100 a month if I run 12 hrs a day
    2003 Coleman MAAX Collection Model 706 - 400gal

  11. Back To Top    #11
    frustratedpoolmom's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    SWSuburban Chicago, IL
    Posts
    11,963

    Re: Can't stand the electric bills anymore...

    My elec bill goes up between $20 and $50 in the summer per month, depending on how hot it gets and how much the airconditioning is on...I run my 2speed on low 24/7 and I'm waiting to see what impact it has on my elec bill this month, as no airconditioning at this time of year, so I should be able to pinpoint the pump's use for a change.
    Helpful links: Pool School; CYA/Chlorine Chart
    24' round AG pool, 52" high, Raypak heater; Waterway 2 spd Pump;
    150 Sq ft. Clearwater Cartridge Filter; Former and DISSATISFIED "Pool Frog" owner
    http://www.PerfectlyClearPoolService.com

  12. Back To Top    #12

    Re: Can't stand the electric bills anymore...

    So - here's my electric bill from last month:
    Baseline - 403.2 KWH @ $0.11531
    to 130% of BL 120.9 KWH @ $0.13109
    to 200% of BL 282.2 KWH @ $0.25974
    to 300% of BL 403.2 KWH @ $0.37866
    Over 300% of BL 435.4 KWH @ $0.44098

    Total Usage last month, 1,645 KWH (1,228 KWH this month last year) = $480.34

    For a reference point, I looked at my Brother's bill in February (He lives in Washington State) and he pays around $0.07 per KWH.
    ~45Kg Pool with attached Spa, NSP-72 DE, Minmax 400 Heater, Tahoe Blue Pebbletech, Jandy SWG via Aqualink RS-8, The Pool Cleaner (black)
    Pumps: X3 Hybrid Pump (switches to SPA), 2HP Spa (additional, when SPA is on), and a 1HP For Waterfall
    8, 4x12 Solar Panels on the roof of the pool-house (~12' up)
    CAPTAIN JAMES T. KIRK: "I'M SORRY. I CAN'T HEAR YOU OVER THE SOUND OF HOW AWESOME I AM" (Thanks to TFP!)

  13. Back To Top    #13

    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Glen Ellen, California
    Posts
    13

    Re: Can't stand the electric bills anymore...

    You might want to have someone come out and do an energy audit on your house. We also live in Northern California, have a 2400 sq ft air-conditioned house occupied by two adults and a teenage daughter and we use less than half the electricity you do.
    15K gal IG gunite, IntelliPro VS3050 variable-speed pump, Jandy CV580 (580 sq ft) cartridge filter
    IntelliChlor IC40 SWG, SunTouch solar-only control system
    Polaris PB4 booster pump, Polaris 280 pool cleaner
    1 skimmer, 3 eyeballs, 256 sq ft solar panels
    Taylor K-2006 test kit, Filled for first time August 8, 2008

  14. Back To Top    #14

    Re: Can't stand the electric bills anymore...

    I'm starting to wonder what the average-daily-PC power usage is.

    We have three PCs that are on almost all of the time - I can't get the kids to shut the **** things off/standby.
    Call that ~225W total

    Other toys I have that suck-up the juice:
    175W MH over my reef-tank 6 hours a day, plus ~55W pump/light on 24x7
    3x150W MH over my freashwater-tank 6 hours a day, plus ~50W pump on 24x7
    100W Pump and UV for the pond, 24x7
    350W Pump for the Pond, 4 hours/day

    Rounding this, I think it's about 600 KWh before I get to the pool and "standard" other things.
    ~45Kg Pool with attached Spa, NSP-72 DE, Minmax 400 Heater, Tahoe Blue Pebbletech, Jandy SWG via Aqualink RS-8, The Pool Cleaner (black)
    Pumps: X3 Hybrid Pump (switches to SPA), 2HP Spa (additional, when SPA is on), and a 1HP For Waterfall
    8, 4x12 Solar Panels on the roof of the pool-house (~12' up)
    CAPTAIN JAMES T. KIRK: "I'M SORRY. I CAN'T HEAR YOU OVER THE SOUND OF HOW AWESOME I AM" (Thanks to TFP!)

  15. Back To Top    #15
    Crzyfrlss1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Central, CT
    Posts
    161

    Re: Can't stand the electric bills anymore...

    After reading this whole thread, I have a question.

    Is your pool pump 120 or 240 volt?

    I know that a 240 volt will use half the amps a that a 120 volt pump will and the bill will be lower.

    Now that I have an extra 240 volt circuit here I plan to use it sometime in the near future to lower my bill as well.

    The same logic applies to AC units as well, and they work more efficiently on 240 volt circuits I'm told. But with half the electrical usage as a 120 volt.
    Intex 15' X 48" metal frame pool
    Waterway Supreme 1hp 2 Speed pump
    Hayward X-Stream 150 Sq. Ft. Cartridge Filter
    2-2'x20' Sungrabber Solar Panels hooked up in parallel on a Goldline GL-235 controller.

    Not getting "Pool Stored" = Priceless!!!
    Thank you TFP

  16. Back To Top    #16
    Mod Squad JohnT's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    SW Indiana
    Posts
    8,617

    Re: Can't stand the electric bills anymore...

    Quote Originally Posted by Crzyfrlss1
    After reading this whole thread, I have a question.

    Is your pool pump 120 or 240 volt?

    I know that a 240 volt will use half the amps a that a 120 volt pump will and the bill will be lower.

    Now that I have an extra 240 volt circuit here I plan to use it sometime in the near future to lower my bill as well.

    The same logic applies to AC units as well, and they work more efficiently on 240 volt circuits I'm told. But with half the electrical usage as a 120 volt.
    No, that is not true. 220/240 uses half the current, but you pay for power, not current. Power is roughly voltage times current, so 240Vx10A=120VX20A. Cost is exactly the same. The advantage of the higher voltage is in the smaller wiring you can use and the reduced losses in long runs due to the lower current.
    TFP Moderator
    20K Gallon 20X36 Vinyl Inground
    Hayward S244T Sand Filter with 1HP Whisperflo Pump. Liquidator C-201 and Solar Heat

  17. Back To Top    #17
    Crzyfrlss1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Central, CT
    Posts
    161

    Re: Can't stand the electric bills anymore...

    Quote Originally Posted by JohnT
    Quote Originally Posted by Crzyfrlss1
    After reading this whole thread, I have a question.

    Is your pool pump 120 or 240 volt?

    I know that a 240 volt will use half the amps a that a 120 volt pump will and the bill will be lower.

    Now that I have an extra 240 volt circuit here I plan to use it sometime in the near future to lower my bill as well.

    The same logic applies to AC units as well, and they work more efficiently on 240 volt circuits I'm told. But with half the electrical usage as a 120 volt.
    No, that is not true. 220/240 uses half the current, but you pay for power, not current. Power is roughly voltage times current, so 240Vx10A=120VX20A. Cost is exactly the same. The advantage of the higher voltage is in the smaller wiring you can use and the reduced losses in long runs due to the lower current.
    If that is the case, then why is it when I look at the specs. of various pool pumps it states.

    For example.
    Amp usage.
    120V 16 amps.
    240 8 amps.

    I always thought if you were using less amps, you we're using less power and the meter would turn a bit slower
    Intex 15' X 48" metal frame pool
    Waterway Supreme 1hp 2 Speed pump
    Hayward X-Stream 150 Sq. Ft. Cartridge Filter
    2-2'x20' Sungrabber Solar Panels hooked up in parallel on a Goldline GL-235 controller.

    Not getting "Pool Stored" = Priceless!!!
    Thank you TFP

  18. Back To Top    #18
    JasonLion's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Silver Spring, MD
    Posts
    37,887

    Re: Can't stand the electric bills anymore...

    You pay by the watt, not by the amp. Watts = amps * volts.

    120V at 16 amps is 1920 watts.
    240V at 8 amps is also 1920 watts.

    The two devices above draws the exact same number of watts, even though the voltage is different, so they cost the same to operate. The only difference in watts is in the wiring between the equipment and the main breaker panel. Higher voltages lose less in the wiring, so it is more efficient.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

  19. Back To Top    #19

    Re: Can't stand the electric bills anymore...

    Quote Originally Posted by JasonLion
    Higher voltages lose less in the wiring, so it is more efficient.
    Methinks I'm going to look at a way to run 2400 volts to the pump and make it 10x more efficient!!!
    ~45Kg Pool with attached Spa, NSP-72 DE, Minmax 400 Heater, Tahoe Blue Pebbletech, Jandy SWG via Aqualink RS-8, The Pool Cleaner (black)
    Pumps: X3 Hybrid Pump (switches to SPA), 2HP Spa (additional, when SPA is on), and a 1HP For Waterfall
    8, 4x12 Solar Panels on the roof of the pool-house (~12' up)
    CAPTAIN JAMES T. KIRK: "I'M SORRY. I CAN'T HEAR YOU OVER THE SOUND OF HOW AWESOME I AM" (Thanks to TFP!)

  20. Back To Top    #20
    Crzyfrlss1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Central, CT
    Posts
    161

    Re: Can't stand the electric bills anymore...

    Quote Originally Posted by JasonLion
    You pay by the watt, not by the amp. Watts = amps * volts.

    120V at 16 amps is 1920 watts.
    240V at 8 amps is also 1920 watts.

    The two devices above draws the exact same number of watts, even though the voltage is different, so they cost the same to operate. The only difference in watts is in the wiring between the equipment and the main breaker panel. Higher voltages lose less in the wiring, so it is more efficient.

    Thanks for explaining all that, now I understand'
    Intex 15' X 48" metal frame pool
    Waterway Supreme 1hp 2 Speed pump
    Hayward X-Stream 150 Sq. Ft. Cartridge Filter
    2-2'x20' Sungrabber Solar Panels hooked up in parallel on a Goldline GL-235 controller.

    Not getting "Pool Stored" = Priceless!!!
    Thank you TFP

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •