New indoor/outdoor pool going in - questions about equipment

[stimpsonjcat]

We are putting in an in-ground pool that will be in a sunroom attached to our current house.

Will have the ability to open or close windows in the sunroom.

Pool is an exercise pool and dimensions are 12x7 (basically a copy of the smallest endless pool done in concrete). Water depth will be 54" and we have an additional 2 feet of wall to minimize splashing loss.

I'll get some pics posted soon.

My questions are:

-the installer had a SWG (trying to get model/part #) in his original quote, and I currently have told him we don't want that. Do I?

My thought was with it indoor there will be little UV (the ceiling includes some translucent panels, but no direct UV will reach the pool) so I should be able to maintain with just chlorine? But if the SWG makes life a breeze then that is tempting and already in the budget.

There is also a 5ftx5ft (triangular) hot tub in the design with a spillage into the pool.

Total water volume is about 4k gallons.

-what size SWG do I need?
-what size heater (propane) do I need?

I plan to have an insulated cover for the hot tub and a yank outable bubble-wrap cover for the pool.

Room will be partially heated during winter and ventilated as necessary during the summer. Open for use all year.

I am looking forward to picking a lot of brains here!

 

[JohnT]

Welcome to TFP!

An SWCG is pretty nice for chlorinating and the salt makes the water feel good on your skin. Certainly not a bad thing.

Your sunroom will stay pretty close to whatever your water temperature is unless the room is huge. The thermal mass of the water will heat the room.

Ventilation will be important year round. The humidity in the pool area can be rough on building materials. You'll have sweating on the glass most likely during the winter if it is cold there.

Hard to estimate heater requirements without knowing where you live.

 

[stimpsonjcat]

Oops, we are in north Georgia.

We will have a sliding glass door to isolate the sunroom from the house to keep humidity down when needed.

Very nice to know the pool will warm the room, as it is an exercise pool we are planning for about 80 degrees F for normal temp for the pool.

 

[pooldv]

Welcome to TFP and congrats on the new pool!

I would say yes to the swg, it eliminates the need to haul and add bleach/chlorine for the bulk of your chlorine needs in the pool. I have a pool with SWG and a hot tub on bleach. Adding SWG to the hot tub is on my to do list.

 

[gwegan]

A Salt Water Generator pool is a chlorine pool. The SWG uses electricity to break down the salt in the water to its component parts sodium and chlorine which soon recombine into salt.

 

[JohnT]

Oops, we are in north Georgia.

We will have a sliding glass door to isolate the sunroom from the house to keep humidity down when needed.

Very nice to know the pool will warm the room, as it is an exercise pool we are planning for about 80 degrees F for normal temp for the pool.

Humidity in the sunroom may be a problem though. Ventilation is always an issue with indoor pools.

 

[Isaac-1]

I have an indoor pool, but it is in a building not attached to the house, having said that, humidity will be an issue, when we redid the roof on the pool house a few years ago we added a pair of high volume exhaust fans and they really help on humidity in the summer, we can leave everything closed up and retain heat in the spring and fall (think walking into a greenhouse) turn the fans on and have it comfortable in 3-5 minutes. I forget the exact math, but I think the fans are rated at about 8-10 air turn overs per hour. Also I would strongly consider an auto cover, I use a bubble cover on mine and it can be a hassle, of course my pool is much larger. I would type more but have to get to an appointment now.

Ike

p.s. back with a bit of other advice, as I mentioned above humidity will be an issue to keep in mind, it gets to any appliances, furniture, light fixtures, etc. So it is best that all of the above either be disposable or suited to a marine environment. For example my pool room has indirect lighting (upward mounted florescent light fixtures in a trough around the perimeter that reflect down from the ceiling), originally these were standard commercial fixtures, which of course had ongoing corrosion issues, so on the remodel they were all replaced with IP63 rated sealed polycarbonate fixtures. These are the type you typically see in parking garages, etc. with sealed rubber gasket around the clear cover and are rated to be hosed down with water. The same sort of issue comes up with electrical outlets, and light switches. I would also suggest using as many stainless steel fixtures as possible, not because they are the in thing, but for corrosion resistance, as other conventional bathroom and kitchen fixtures tend to be effected by the humidity as well. While you are at it watch out for common steel screw fasteners, this is another place where stainless helps.

 

[stimpsonjcat]

Humidity in the sunroom may be a problem though. Ventilation is always an issue with indoor pools.

Yes, the room contractor is putting in an exhaust fan and we will have windows we can open in the summer. Two full walls of them.

- - - Updated - - -

I have an indoor pool, but it is in a building not attached to the house, having said that, humidity will be an issue, when we redid the roof on the pool house a few years ago we added a pair of high volume exhaust fans and they really help on humidity in the summer, we can leave everything closed up and retain heat in the spring and fall (think walking into a greenhouse) turn the fans on and have it comfortable in 3-5 minutes. I forget the exact math, but I think the fans are rated at about 8-10 air turn overs per hour. Also I would strongly consider an auto cover, I use a bubble cover on mine and it can be a hassle, of course my pool is much larger. I would type more but have to get to an appointment now.

I may try to rig up a more elaborate cover for the pool. Not sure a roll-up will work as the water level is 2 feet down from the top edge of the pool wall. I guess I could always have the cover at the top and not at water level, though I would think that wouldn't be as efficient.



HEY WOW! I replied independently to both posts and the forum combined them! This is a vbulletin based forum, is anyone here an admin that can tell me if that is a standard setting? I run a vbulletin forum and would like to enable that feature if possible. Thanks!

 

[Isaac-1]

My advice on the exhaust fan is to make sure it is sized large enough, people not accustomed to this sort of design will vastly undersize the exhaust fan.

 

[swimcmp]

Humidity will be the downfall of any indoor pool room if it is not taken care of. That being said first off I wouldn't do swcg you will constantly be turning it on and off as you aren't going to have that much water. Bleach will work fairly well. Use a few tablets to keep cya in it from time to time. A 125,000 btu heater will work fine.

 

[Isaac-1]

One other thing to keep in mind, many / most indoor pools you will find are "up north" where they have to go to lengths to control humidity with dehumidifiers instead of simple air exchange with exhaust fans as their outdoor temperatures tend to be much lower and have more issue with loosing heat from the buildings much of the year. Where in the south we, even where you are in northern GA, will often have fairly warm days much of the winter. As to the SWG or not, personally I have never been brave enough to try it, as even without all that extra salt in the water there are enough corrosion issues to worry about, instead I use liquid chlorine with an injection pump for automation (search the forum for stenner pumps for more information).

 

[stimpsonjcat]

As to the SWG or not, personally I have never been brave enough to try it, as even without all that extra salt in the water there are enough corrosion issues to worry about, instead I use liquid chlorine with an injection pump for automation (search the forum for stenner pumps for more information).

I should have mentioned we will be installing an Endless Pool 'Fastlane' and their documentation says no to salt. This was the main reason I wanted to avoid SWG/salt.

 

[platipus]

I don't have sunroom pool, but I can speak partially to the issue of any structure that is over a wet area. If you follow the patio build link in my signature, you can see what I am referring to.

We have a 3k gal koi pond built into our patio. The patio and pond is covered by a roof and very sheltered, but not closed off by any means. 3 sides of the patio structure all have very large (10' x 8, and much larger) openings with plenty of ventilation. Birds fly through this. It's "open". To one side of the pond directly connected to the roof we have a motorized aluminum pergola. The blades can rotate open or shut. We open it during the day and close at night in case any rain comes in. Granted we are in Houston and it tends to be humid here, but this issue I am going to talk about really is more about dew point.

Most mornings after the pergola has been closed all night, the bottom (ceiling) of it is COVERED in condensation. It dries off via evaporation by about 11am usually, but if you open it up before that the condensation comes rolling off of it and drips on the furniture. It's not a big deal in the environment it is in. The furniture is outdoor furniture and it's all tile floor space meant to handle water. My point here though is that this is just from an unheated pond sitting next to it. Anything that gets remotely close to or below the dew point temperature (ie windows when it's colder outside or even a cold water faucet spigot) is going to get wet. Really, really wet without something to mitigate the humidity. A heated body of water which I assume your pool will be is only going to amplify this effect.

This by no means is me saying you shouldn't do what you want to. Your project sounds neat and I've seen plenty of indoor pools on the interwebs, so we all know there is a way to do this. I am just saying to heed the advice the others above me have already conveyed. Make sure you have someone who knows what they are doing when it comes to dealing with your ventilation. Keep in mind there will be plenty of days where an open window won't be a possibility to count on for that ventilation equation.


Good luck!

plat.

 

[stimpsonjcat]

Keep in mind there will be plenty of days where an open window won't be a possibility to count on for that ventilation equation.

Why would that be? The room will mostly be completely isolated from the rest of the house via a sliding glass door. so it could be left open all the time if we needed to.

We will be covering both the hot tub (which will not be heated full time) and the pool (which will only be heated to 80-ish).

But yes, the plan is a monster exhaust fan.

Also, 50% of the walls are openable windows.

But Georgia summers get really hot and humid, so open windows and fans may not be enough, we will see.

My #1 concern is mold growth in the room. The 2 solid walls are currently stained cedar. If/when mold rears it's head, they will be replaced with something easier to clean.

 

[Isaac-1]

Most of the interior walls in my pool house are Pecky Cypress and I have never had mold problems with them, I am however currently dealing with mold on the bathroom wallpaper for the first time since the pool was built 36 years ago, thankfully it is only wallpaper from the chair rail up and not much of it at that.

 

[platipus]

Why would that be? The room will mostly be completely isolated from the rest of the house via a sliding glass door. so it could be left open all the time if we needed to.

You mention in your first post that the room will be partially heated during the winter. That says to me it's going to be closed up when it's the coldest outside which is when there will be the highest chance for condensation build-up. Maybe I am misunderstanding something?

Again, I am just pointing out potential issues. We're all here to learn. Good luck!


plat.

 

[stimpsonjcat]

You mention in your first post that the room will be partially heated during the winter. That says to me it's going to be closed up when it's the coldest outside which is when there will be the highest chance for condensation build-up. Maybe I am misunderstanding something?

Again, I am just pointing out potential issues. We're all here to learn. Good luck!


plat.

Nope, you got it right. I will watch for this.

 

[stimpsonjcat]

OK, finally got some pics taken...

Outside pic...the front wall will be glass with a glass door, right side wall will also be glass. Both will have windows in the larger framed openings.


Here's the view from the existing front door which will now be a sliding glass door...


And finally a shot of the trench in the bottom of the pool that will be the return for the fastlane. A stainless steel plate will cover the trench.

 

[stimpsonjcat]

I tested our water here with my shiny new TF-100 kit!

TC=2.5ppm (I got no CC at all so that is all FC)

CH = 25 (1 drop)

TA=25

CYA = none! I am guessing the tested water turns opaque if you have any reserves?

PH = 7.5

Daily pool test says Cl = 1 and Br = 2

So it looks like I need;
4oz of 6% bleach.
66oz of baking soda
139oz of calcium chloride
21oz of stabilizer

For starters.
Should I fill it first and test before dumping that stuff in? Seems wise to check it again at that point.
Should I expect that the pool company will know what they are doing?
Bad sign if they do not test my water or is all city water pretty predictable?
Any break-in rules or needs for any of the particular test values?

 

[pooldv]

You're on the right track there! Your water is really soft, I have never seen TA and CH that low in tap water. What state are you in? Are you using a water softener? Definitely fill first and run the pump for half an hour or so. Don't be surprised if your PB doesn't know a whole lot about water testing and chemistry, many don't.

Raise your CH to 250 or so. Go easy on raising your TA. I would raise it to 60 and then wait a few weeks to see if your PH remains stable. If it is low or fluctuates then raise TA another 10 and wait.

There will be no CYA in tap water. Yes, if there were CYA in the water it would be cloudy.