How long will travertine pavers last in a region with acid rain and acid fog (e.g. Los Angeles) before they start pitting and deteriorating?
Travertine pool deck with acid rain
- Thread starter comegetme
- Start date
Welcome to the forum!
I'd say long enough that any possibility of Acid rain shouldn't keep you from making that choice if it's what you want.
I'd say long enough that any possibility of Acid rain shouldn't keep you from making that choice if it's what you want.
Thanks for the responses.
Can we quantify this, or are there any data points?
I was hoping to collect some data points, i.e. actual travertine paver installations in Los Angeles or cities with similar pollution and acid rain and fog.
I have been living for decades in Los Angeles, and have yet to see a single travertine [driveway / pool / patio]. I have been particularly watching out for travertine driveways while driving through the city, particularly upscale neighborhoods, and not seen a single one. Coincidence? Or not? Most travertine installations appear to be in Florida. Not even a Google search for "travertine Los Angeles [driveway | pool]" returns any results of actual pictures of installations in Los Angeles.
Does anybody on this forum have actual data points or examples of installations in Los Angeles without significant deterioration?
A fictional story:
http://www.slipperyrockgazette.net/file/archive/0510/articles/15_1.html
These fellows tried to simulate the effect of acid rain on travertine, limestone, and marble, showing significant mass loss in a short amount of time:
http://scholarcommons.usf.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1043&context=geologia
http://www.stratfordk12.org/Customer-Content/www/CMS/files/ParentResources/PARTIAcidRain.pdf
Acid Rain - Chemwiki : "In Los Angeles, the pH of fog has been measured at 2.0 - about the acidity of lemon juice."
Can we quantify this, or are there any data points?
I was hoping to collect some data points, i.e. actual travertine paver installations in Los Angeles or cities with similar pollution and acid rain and fog.
I have been living for decades in Los Angeles, and have yet to see a single travertine [driveway / pool / patio]. I have been particularly watching out for travertine driveways while driving through the city, particularly upscale neighborhoods, and not seen a single one. Coincidence? Or not? Most travertine installations appear to be in Florida. Not even a Google search for "travertine Los Angeles [driveway | pool]" returns any results of actual pictures of installations in Los Angeles.
Does anybody on this forum have actual data points or examples of installations in Los Angeles without significant deterioration?
A fictional story:
http://www.slipperyrockgazette.net/file/archive/0510/articles/15_1.html
These fellows tried to simulate the effect of acid rain on travertine, limestone, and marble, showing significant mass loss in a short amount of time:
http://scholarcommons.usf.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1043&context=geologia
http://www.stratfordk12.org/Customer-Content/www/CMS/files/ParentResources/PARTIAcidRain.pdf
Acid Rain - Chemwiki : "In Los Angeles, the pH of fog has been measured at 2.0 - about the acidity of lemon juice."
No, I do not believe we can quantify this for you. You may get lucky and have someone from L.A. answer you who's actually documented their Travertine degradation from CA polution and Acid Rain, but I wouldn't have my hopes up.
It seems a grave enough concern that perhaps you should forego any material susceptible to such problems. Maybe brick pavers or Quartzite would be a better alternative for you. With your level of concern, I would only suggest the most durable of material choices you can incorporate into your design.
It seems a grave enough concern that perhaps you should forego any material susceptible to such problems. Maybe brick pavers or Quartzite would be a better alternative for you. With your level of concern, I would only suggest the most durable of material choices you can incorporate into your design.
Thanks. I love travertine. Given the cost of a stone installation, I believe the concern is justified, as are thoughts on estimated life cycle length and life cycle cost. I am trying to find out if the concern can be substantiated. For some reason, it seems to be difficult to find installed travertine in Los Angeles, and equally difficult to find installers (contractors) who have any experience with travertine. Still hoping to get to the grounds of why that is so, or a reference from greater L.A. in this forum. The climate is comparable to Florida for this purpose, and I have a hard time believing that 10+ million Angelenos plus the stone industry, distributors and installers just didn't "get the idea" or know that travertine exists. I want to make educated decisions based on substantiated rationale, not "believes".
Yes, travertine decks are very nice. I am always impressed by them. Hopefully some L.A. people will jump in here. I was thinking earlier that I don't see a lot of L.A. pools here. What's up with that? Doesn't everyone in L.A. have a pool??? 
Yea, I think so DV, but most of them are movie stars, and they have Pool People.
Sounds like Travertine just isn't popular out there. Just like flagstone isn't terribly popular in FL, but it's all over pools everywhere in Texas.
Sounds like Travertine just isn't popular out there. Just like flagstone isn't terribly popular in FL, but it's all over pools everywhere in Texas.
Try shifting your focus to some of the surrounding areas of LA.. a quick google search found a number of suppliers and contractors in Malibu, Orange County etc.. that have plenty of experience with Travertine. I'm sure they could point you in the right direction.
Pes0611
0
Travertine has been around and used for outdoor use forever. The travertine will most likely outlast you.
Killer95Stang
Well-known member
I'm with Pes0611. We get about 10 days of actual rain per year and probably even less fog. I doubt with that ratio, you would even be alive to quantify the damage. On the other hand, Florida has a lot of it, because it is popular with the cultural style of the region. Here in LA, Travertine is a particular style that Angelinos just haven't adopted. I do remember an Owner Builder pool build from last year in Los Angeles where a guy used a travertine for his complete deck. Only has a year in, but at least you can see what it looks like.
I'm partial, but I would say lock & load and just do it. You can seal for some (minimal?) protection and spray your deck following rain in particularly high acid times.
I discovered that the Getty Museum has its facades almost entirely cladded in travertine, as well as the patios:
http://www.masonryconstruction.com/...er's Stone Seduces Visitors_tcm68-1375973.pdf
The article mentions "The paving stones varied from 1-1/2 to 2 inches thick and were treated with an oil-resistant coating to reduce soiling..."
I'm curious what coating they used. I assume they meant to say penetrating sealer, not coating??!
Was driving through some affluent neighborhoods again today. For some reason the driveways of almost all residential houses in greater L.A. have some sort of "ugly" concrete driveways or concrete pavers, that IMHO pale compared to the beauty of real stone. Hard to understand. Practically all contractors that I contacted had never seen a travertine paver before; most are suspicious whether they are "pavers" and look at me as if I were from outer space when I show them my 1.25" thick samples, as they have only seen 2" concrete pavers before.
http://www.masonryconstruction.com/...er's Stone Seduces Visitors_tcm68-1375973.pdf
The article mentions "The paving stones varied from 1-1/2 to 2 inches thick and were treated with an oil-resistant coating to reduce soiling..."
I'm curious what coating they used. I assume they meant to say penetrating sealer, not coating??!
Was driving through some affluent neighborhoods again today. For some reason the driveways of almost all residential houses in greater L.A. have some sort of "ugly" concrete driveways or concrete pavers, that IMHO pale compared to the beauty of real stone. Hard to understand. Practically all contractors that I contacted had never seen a travertine paver before; most are suspicious whether they are "pavers" and look at me as if I were from outer space when I show them my 1.25" thick samples, as they have only seen 2" concrete pavers before.
Not to deny this fact, but to put it in perspective - It was brought to my attention that the city of Rome spends significant amounts of money for the restauration of their travertine buildings and artifacts, as Rome apparently also has an acid rain problem.
- May 23, 2015
- 24,379
- Pool Size
- 16000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
You might not see a lot of travertine perhaps because the stone is not readily available in the LA area. Travertine comes from ancient calcium carbonate deposits from surface waters and hot springs. CA is not known for producing travertine. Rocks are heavy and expensive to transport therefore it is likely cost prohibitive except for the uber-rich (think Hearst Castle) to install natural travertine. I sincerely doubt acid rain has much to do with the considerations.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk,16k gal SWG pool (All Pentair), QuadDE100 Filter, Taylor K-2006
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk,16k gal SWG pool (All Pentair), QuadDE100 Filter, Taylor K-2006
I had the same thoughts, but dismissed them. E.g. Forida or Texas by themselves do not have a lot of travetine querries that I know of. Transporation cost e.g. from Florida (where most distributors are located) by truck, or directly from Turkey by ship, is minimal in relation to the cost of stone and labor, and the stone is available from at least two distributors at similar cost to other regions. And yet, most landscape contractors have never seen a travertine paver, and almost all the houses in the affluent neighborhoods have concrete or concrete paver driveways. (In the not so affluent neighborhoods they have crumbling concrete or asphalt driveways.)
My entire deck is laid with travertine pavers. Was really easy to find locally in LA actually. Not sure why you can't find a contractor knowledgable about installing the stone pavers. My deck is only about 6 months old, but it is holding up fine, and i have not sealed it. My friend installed travertine in his backyard about 10 years ago and it still looks perfect. If you want travertine, do it, you will not regret it.
Here is a Travertine supplier in the LA area, FBR Marble 562-602-2300 Hope this helps you.
Thank you, I didn't know this supplier. I notice this thread has become quite long. I hope to collect as much info or references as possible for travertine [pool, deck, driveway] existing installations, weathering with or without sealing, contractors, or distributors in greater Los Angeles.
