Is my new pump supposed to be this loud?

[zolakk]

I just had a pool built and yesterday was the first day they fired up the equipment to run overnight for shock, etc and I have to say this thing is LOUD - like I can hear it in almost any room of my 2600sqft single story home loud. I asked the pool builder about it and they said that it is normal, but i'm not so sure. If it is indeed normal, what can I do to mitigate the noise? It's located between a cinder block wall and my living room window, about 20' from the spa. It's a Hayward SP 3220EE, and according to the marketing it's supposed to be quiet but I guess that's relative?

I've attached pics of the plates on the pump and motor and here's a link to a youtube of what i'm hearing all day: https://youtu.be/i7CYlt4PfSk

 

[smforte]

Sounds pretty loud to me.....how far is it from your patio-pool? Close enough to drive you nuts?

 

[zolakk]

Sounds pretty loud to me.....how far is it from your patio-pool? Close enough to drive you nuts?

You could say that. It's about 3' from my living room window and about the same around the corner from the patio and directly next to where the gas nipple is for my grill. Loud enough for sure to be annoying if just using the pool, the noise from the spa MIGHT drown it out but hard to tell yet.

Here's a quick and crudely drawn (not to scale) diagram to show what i'm talking about. It's really rainy and cold at the moment or else i'd get out a tape measure but if I were to guess it would be roughly 10-12' from the corner of the spa to the closest corner of the equipment pad

 

[gary300]

Did the PB at least give you the option for either a 2 speed motor or a variable speed motor? Either one would be a lot quieter that the single speed 2 hp motor.

 

[WASP]

Perhaps you can build an enclosure for the equipment pad.

 

[mas985]

Sounds like something is resonating. Try pushing down on the pump (or pipes) and see if the sound changes.

 

[zolakk]

@gary300 actually they did not, and I didn't think to ask. Honestly didn't think the noise would be so bad

@WASP that's what I was thinking, once I was sure it's not some other problem

@mas985 I will give that a try tomorrow in the daylight, to me it sounds like when I had an above ground and got an air bubble trapped in the pump but i'm pretty sure they checked for that - they looked it over pretty good yesterday during initial start up and had someone else out today to make sure there's no more debris in the lines before putting in the in-floor cleaning heads (we had a bunch of dirt and some rocks and stuff come out initally). it's more the high pitch than the volume that is most bothersome

 

[JamesW]

A couple of observations.

1) The pump does not look very new. Is it used?
2) Why a total of 2.7 H.P? That's quite a lot. Probably too much.
3) The base looks like a pre-made polymer base that is not well supported. That's going to vibrate and amplify the noise.

Some ideas.

1) Pour a solid concrete base.
2) Get a variable speed pump.
3) Possibly bolt down the pump to the concrete and put a layer of rubber between the pump base and concrete.

 

[wjr75]

Just had a new Pentair WhisperFlo installed last summer. Can barely hear it standing next to it which is 500% better than the old pump which had the bearings going out. People come by and can't believe how quite it is.

 

[zolakk]

So I went out there and pushed/pulled on every part of the system and no change in noise. The pump is actually brand new, I watched them unbox and install it and it sure looked new then but it has rained a few times since then so that's probably what you're seeing. The base is a slab of concrete but not poured on site, all the equipment appears to be fastened down very well - there's no give at all on any components/pipes. The pump they speced out for our pool (12x28 3'6" - 5' deep), spa (7x6.5 3'6" deep w/6 jets, 18" above pool level), and in-floor cleaning system, I don't know if it's too much but everything seems to work great.

Upgrading to a VS pump is not an economical option at this point because of the price of the pool build, but definitely something to keep a eye on for the future. I guess for now i'll have to try to come up with some way to dampen the noise with an external barrier of some kind

 

[ewkearns]

Sounds like something is resonating. Try pushing down on the pump (or pipes) and see if the sound changes.

I fear the noise is coming from inside the pump.... it sounds like cavitation to me.... not the rough vibrating gravelly type, but the "tiny bubble" type. I'm not a big fan of how short the suction side pipe is before it hits a valve and all of those ells.... and getting the water from your pool looks like it took another box full of ells..... If you could increase the pressure on the output side of the pump, it might shed some light on the cause......

 

[mas985]

I have never heard caviation ever sound like that. All cavitation that I have ever heard in a pool pump sounds like gravel. Also, cavitation only occurs inside the impeller and you will never actually see it in a residential pool pump. So if by tiny bubble you mean something that you see, then that is an air leak and not cavitation.

The high wine is a resonance of some sort but if it is not in the plumbing, then unfortunately it must be in the pump. Either a bearing or perhaps the impeller ring.

But as was pointed out earlier, I don't think you need such a large pump or are you running a spa with it? If you have a spa, a two speed motor would be a good choice. If not, then you could downsize the impeller and that should improve the noise.

 

[WASP]

Good pump suction design is that you have a minimum of 10 pipe diameters of straight run of pipe to the pumps suction. That's just good engineering practice. Though I have yet to see it on the typical pool pump pad. If you want to hear what cavitation sounds like, briefly close the pumps suction valve, just for a few seconds. Also, as a completely separate item, you can pinch back the discharge valve to reduce flow and perhaps noise. As an aside, if you do not need all of the flow your pump is putting out, by throttling the pumps discharge you will reduce the amount of power consumed. Just don't close the discharge completely, you will over heat the pump seal.

 

[mas985]

Good pump suction design is that you have a minimum of 10 pipe diameters of straight run of pipe to the pumps suction. That's just good engineering practice.

That is good engineering practice for pumps without pump baskets and is a hold over from the water distribution industry where the pipe enters directly into the impeller inlet. In that case, the extra pipe can have an effect in the water flow turbulence. Yes, some pool pump manufactures still recommend this for residential pool pumps but with a pump basket in between the pipe and the impeller inlet, I cannot see how that would make any difference as the pump basket is going to be the major contributor to flow turbulence into the impeller and not the pipe.

 

[JamesW]

The 10x diameter rule is usually impractical and probably unnecessary with a strainer housing before the impeller. I think that it's more important to keep the water velocity below 6 feet per second. With that pump, the velocity is probably well over 6 feet per second.

The base looks like it is not very solid. It's probably vibrating and amplifying the sound. The pump's frequency might be close to the base's resonant frequency. A poured concrete base should help quite a bit. Bolting the pump to the real concrete base with an interstitial layer of rubber should help as well.

The pump is way too big. There's no need for that much H.P. A variable speed pump would have been a much better choice.

Most of the time, you could run it low enough to barely hear. As needed, you could increase the speed to run the jets or in-floor cleaning system.

I think that you're going to get tired of hearing the noise very quickly and that it's going to substantially interfere with your enjoyment of the pool.

 

[setsailsoon]

Zollakk,

It's kind of hard to tell from the video but it really doesn't sound that bad to me. No screeching, metal-on-metal sound so bearings and seal are not the problem. I've heard a lot of centrifugal pumps cavitate an yours is not doing that. Cavitation sounds like there are marbles rattling around in it. I also see no vibration issue apparent. Could be a leaf in the cooling fan on the motor is making it a little louder than normal. Or piping is in a bind (release the union on pipe connecting to the pump and make sure it's aligned properly). Last thing may be all the surrounding walls are giving you sort of an echo effect. If you want to reduce the noise I've used insulation blankets sold to provide heat protection for steam turbines with good luck to reduce noise to OSHA limits. You can probably get one from Grainger. Just make sure you don't block any of the cooling slots in the motor.

I hope this helps.

Chris

 

[zolakk]

Zollakk,

It's kind of hard to tell from the video but it really doesn't sound that bad to me. No screeching, metal-on-metal sound so bearings and seal are not the problem. I've heard a lot of centrifugal pumps cavitate an yours is not doing that. Cavitation sounds like there are marbles rattling around in it. I also see no vibration issue apparent. Could be a leaf in the cooling fan on the motor is making it a little louder than normal. Or piping is in a bind (release the union on pipe connecting to the pump and make sure it's aligned properly). Last thing may be all the surrounding walls are giving you sort of an echo effect. If you want to reduce the noise I've used insulation blankets sold to provide heat protection for steam turbines with good luck to reduce noise to OSHA limits. You can probably get one from Grainger. Just make sure you don't block any of the cooling slots in the motor.

I hope this helps.

Chris

Chris,
Thank you for the input, I suspect you are right with the walls amplifying the sound after going through all other troubleshooting. I'll give your blanket suggestion a try until I can come up with something more permanent.

 

[JamesW]

I wonder if running the sound through a sound analyzer would provide any insight? I imagine that there would be some free sound analysers online.

 

[setsailsoon]

Zolakk,

The blankets I'm suggesting are fire-proof and have kind of a silver reflective outer cover with wire mesh to hold it in place. We usually wrap and use banding to hold it in place. You need to do this so motor vibration doesn't allow it to slip over the cooling vents on the motor. I suggest you take some measurements before you go looking.

Thanks for the follow up and please do let us know how it works for you.

Chris

 

[Qwaxalot]

I would try increasing the back pressure. If there's any valves on the return side, try closing them slightly. If there are no valves, try return fittings that are slightly more restrictive than the ones that are there.