Well, it will be delivered within the hour. It will take a few hours to get it in the house and filled up. I will post some pics and my chem stats later tonight.
New tub is here!
- Thread starter MDM
- Start date
I just did a quick dip strip test of the water I hauled in and the PH is right at 7.6. FC about 1ppm. The TA is way high at around 150. I hope I have enough PH decreaser on hand to bring the TA down. I think I have 48 oz. of the stuff.
Ok. I got the tub filled with water. Specs said it was 270g, but that must be filled flush with the top, because it only took about 220g.
I test the water and WOW is this water screwed up.
PH 7.6 - good
TA - 440
CH - 330
So it should take somewhere in the neighborhood of 24oz. of Dry Acid to bring my TA down to where it should be, is this correct? Should I do this slowly? Like 5oz at a time, then run the jets to raise the ph?
Should I worry about the CH being that high? I do have some Calcium Sequestrant.
Is it OK to go ahead and add my borax/Dry acid mix to get my borates up to 50ppm now, before I start working on getting the TA down?
Here is the tub. It's a Dreammaker X-500. It's new and supposed to be a factory second blemished model with a scratch or color variation, but my wife and I have looked it over top to bottom and can't find mark anywhere. Buying the blemished tub saved us about $800. Got it of EBay through spadepot.com. The tub cost us $2650 total including shipping. Nothing real fancy, but should suit us just fine.
I test the water and WOW is this water screwed up.
PH 7.6 - good
TA - 440
CH - 330
So it should take somewhere in the neighborhood of 24oz. of Dry Acid to bring my TA down to where it should be, is this correct? Should I do this slowly? Like 5oz at a time, then run the jets to raise the ph?
Should I worry about the CH being that high? I do have some Calcium Sequestrant.
Is it OK to go ahead and add my borax/Dry acid mix to get my borates up to 50ppm now, before I start working on getting the TA down?
Here is the tub. It's a Dreammaker X-500. It's new and supposed to be a factory second blemished model with a scratch or color variation, but my wife and I have looked it over top to bottom and can't find mark anywhere. Buying the blemished tub saved us about $800. Got it of EBay through spadepot.com. The tub cost us $2650 total including shipping. Nothing real fancy, but should suit us just fine.
Hopefully I've learned something from all the posts and stickies here, so here goes... I will be corrected soon enough if I'm leading you astray.
The borates will make it harder to change pH, so wait on that until you're done with the TA dance.
You really don't want to lower the pH below 7.0, so don't put in the acid all at once! Do it a bit at a time. According to the Pool Calculator, each 1oz of dry acid in 220 gal will lower pH about 0.76, so I would do 1oz at a time and wait for the pH to go back up to almost 8.0 before the next round.
When you get the TA down where you want it, look at your CSI (Calcium Saturation Index) in the Calculator. The high CH is probably not such a huge problem if you keep TA and pH under control, especially with borates.
--paulr
The borates will make it harder to change pH, so wait on that until you're done with the TA dance.
You really don't want to lower the pH below 7.0, so don't put in the acid all at once! Do it a bit at a time. According to the Pool Calculator, each 1oz of dry acid in 220 gal will lower pH about 0.76, so I would do 1oz at a time and wait for the pH to go back up to almost 8.0 before the next round.
When you get the TA down where you want it, look at your CSI (Calcium Saturation Index) in the Calculator. The high CH is probably not such a huge problem if you keep TA and pH under control, especially with borates.
--paulr
Agree with Paul.
I would work on the TA (Which seems really high to me for hauled in water). Do it incrementally with dry acid. With CH at 330, you probably want to target around 80 for the TA to get the water balanced. To me TA establishment and control is critical to control because it can produce so many other issues.
Also, you need to get a stabilizer introduced to get a CYA between 30 - 50 for your sanitizer to be effective. I use Chlorine Shock (Dichlor). For 220g about 2 oz's of the stuff will get you to 34 according to the pool calculator. Then sanitize with regular Clorox bleach regularly to keep FC in the 3 - 6 range.
After balanced, then I would introduce Borates which will help with PH rise.
Good Luck.
Barry
I would work on the TA (Which seems really high to me for hauled in water). Do it incrementally with dry acid. With CH at 330, you probably want to target around 80 for the TA to get the water balanced. To me TA establishment and control is critical to control because it can produce so many other issues.
Also, you need to get a stabilizer introduced to get a CYA between 30 - 50 for your sanitizer to be effective. I use Chlorine Shock (Dichlor). For 220g about 2 oz's of the stuff will get you to 34 according to the pool calculator. Then sanitize with regular Clorox bleach regularly to keep FC in the 3 - 6 range.
After balanced, then I would introduce Borates which will help with PH rise.
Good Luck.
Barry
About how many ppm will 1oz of dry acid decrease my TA by? I just added an oz and I am going to wait 30 min before I check the PH and fire up the jets.
EDIT: I just read that 10oz. of Dry Acid will lower the TA by 100ppm in a 270g tub, so 1oz. will lower my TA by about 12 ppm. This will take all day to get the TA down to where it should be.
EDIT: I just read that 10oz. of Dry Acid will lower the TA by 100ppm in a 270g tub, so 1oz. will lower my TA by about 12 ppm. This will take all day to get the TA down to where it should be.
My spa's capacity is 360 gal. My initial fill's TA was 205 with a PH of 7.0.
I began by using 4 oz of acid off the bat - aerated for an hour, then added 3 more oz of acid with a couple oz of Borax to keep the PH from going too low. Checked each day and added .5 oz of acid each time until the TA ended up at 80. Took about 5 days with a total amt of 9 oz of dry acid.
Barry
I began by using 4 oz of acid off the bat - aerated for an hour, then added 3 more oz of acid with a couple oz of Borax to keep the PH from going too low. Checked each day and added .5 oz of acid each time until the TA ended up at 80. Took about 5 days with a total amt of 9 oz of dry acid.
Barry
It seems that 1oz. of PH Decreaser only dropped the ph to 7.3 after 1/2 hour of circulation, so I'm going to run the ph up to 8.0, then add 2oz. of PH Decreaser the next time around. I'm going to do this a couple more times before I check the TA again.
Exactly--as you learn how your tub responds, you can adjust what you do accordingly! Knowledge is power... and yes it might take all day, but you won't risk damaging your brand new tub before you even get to use it.
--paulr
--paulr
I recommend keeping some form of written record.
I have been keeping a spread sheet record (a log) of time, pH, chlorine, temp, and any additions and expected results (amount of acid added and anticipated pH after addition).
In three months I have over 300 entries. I still check the pool calculator but have developed a good feel for the tub and what to expect.
An advantage of a spread sheet program is that you can create useful equations; e.g., I can enter a time, starting temperature, and desired temperature and the spread sheet will calculate the time at which the tub will reach the desired temperature.
Curmudgeon
350 gal Infinity using BBB
I have been keeping a spread sheet record (a log) of time, pH, chlorine, temp, and any additions and expected results (amount of acid added and anticipated pH after addition).
In three months I have over 300 entries. I still check the pool calculator but have developed a good feel for the tub and what to expect.
An advantage of a spread sheet program is that you can create useful equations; e.g., I can enter a time, starting temperature, and desired temperature and the spread sheet will calculate the time at which the tub will reach the desired temperature.
Curmudgeon
350 gal Infinity using BBB
TA is now down to 330. Seems that 1oz. of ph minus brings the TA down about 20ppm. I won't be able to make anymore adjustments for 5 hours or so. I'll check back in later tonight. Thanks for the help.
Well, I've been working on it all evening and I've added another 9oz. of Dry Acid and have got the TA down to 190. I'm done for tonight. I figure I should have it all in check after a few hours tomorrow.
How far should I take my TA down before I add my borax/PH minus solution?
IMPORTANT QUESTIONS:
According to the Pool Calculator, I need 12 oz. of borax and 6 oz of Muratic acid to increase my Borates to 50. I don't have Muratic acid, but Dry Acid. Is 6 oz. of Muratic the same as 6 oz. of Dry Acid? As I understand, this will give me a relatively Ph balanced mix. Will the 6 oz. of Acid portion of this mixture decrease the TA? If this is the case, I should probably leave my TA where it is now at 190 and add my borate solution, because that 6 oz. of acid will drop my TA by about 100ppm with the way things have responded to the acid today.
One other thing...when I filled the tub I added about 2 oz. of bleach just to keep the water fresh during this balancing act. This took the FC to somewhere between 5 -10 and it has not budged in 24 hrs. The tub has been covered for the most part. Is it safe to get in the tub with FC this high? Is there any way to drop the FC without getting in the tub?
How far should I take my TA down before I add my borax/PH minus solution?
IMPORTANT QUESTIONS:
According to the Pool Calculator, I need 12 oz. of borax and 6 oz of Muratic acid to increase my Borates to 50. I don't have Muratic acid, but Dry Acid. Is 6 oz. of Muratic the same as 6 oz. of Dry Acid? As I understand, this will give me a relatively Ph balanced mix. Will the 6 oz. of Acid portion of this mixture decrease the TA? If this is the case, I should probably leave my TA where it is now at 190 and add my borate solution, because that 6 oz. of acid will drop my TA by about 100ppm with the way things have responded to the acid today.
One other thing...when I filled the tub I added about 2 oz. of bleach just to keep the water fresh during this balancing act. This took the FC to somewhere between 5 -10 and it has not budged in 24 hrs. The tub has been covered for the most part. Is it safe to get in the tub with FC this high? Is there any way to drop the FC without getting in the tub?
Adding borates (borax plus acid) will raise the TA just slightly. The borax raises TA just a little more than dry acid reduces it. So you can't use that to help with lowering TA.
To have the same strength of acid, you need about 1 1/3 times as much dry acid (by weight) as muriatic acid (by volume). If you want to measure the dry acid by volume it will be less precise, somewhere around 90% as much dry acid by volume as muriatic acid by volume.
I haven't been following the whole process, but if you haven't added any dichlor or stabilizer/CYA then you should not get in the tub when FC is above 5, and between 2 and 5 there may be some damage to bathing suits. You want to have some CYA in the water, not a lot but some. As long as there is some CYA then the tub is fine at a FC level of 10 or below.
To have the same strength of acid, you need about 1 1/3 times as much dry acid (by weight) as muriatic acid (by volume). If you want to measure the dry acid by volume it will be less precise, somewhere around 90% as much dry acid by volume as muriatic acid by volume.
I haven't been following the whole process, but if you haven't added any dichlor or stabilizer/CYA then you should not get in the tub when FC is above 5, and between 2 and 5 there may be some damage to bathing suits. You want to have some CYA in the water, not a lot but some. As long as there is some CYA then the tub is fine at a FC level of 10 or below.
Thanks for the help. I have not added any dichlor yet. If my FC is at say 7 now and does not appear to be dropping, and I add a teaspoon of diclor, how do I get the FC to drop? Like I said, it has not dropped in 24 hrs.
OK. I added .3 oz. of dichlor, this should increase my CYA to 10.
OK. I added .3 oz. of dichlor, this should increase my CYA to 10.
With CYA at 10, it is fine to get in the tub with FC levels as high as 10. Using the tub will lower the FC level.
I don't like to get in a FC 10 tub, even with CYA in there.
I have heard that hydrogen peroxide can lower FC. The claim was you figure out how much you overshot, in terms of 6% bleach, and you add that much 3% peroxide. I haven't tried this myself. But the Pool Calc says in a 220 gal tub, you use 2.3 oz of 6% to raise FC by 5, so by this argument 2.3 oz of peroxide would burn 5ppm FC.
--paulr
I had an oopsie a while back and my FC was somewhere in the mid-20s. I left the cover off during the day so the sun could work on it. Still took quite a while to run it down.MDM said:
I have heard that hydrogen peroxide can lower FC. The claim was you figure out how much you overshot, in terms of 6% bleach, and you add that much 3% peroxide. I haven't tried this myself. But the Pool Calc says in a 220 gal tub, you use 2.3 oz of 6% to raise FC by 5, so by this argument 2.3 oz of peroxide would burn 5ppm FC.
--paulr
Ok, great. I'm on my way. I've just got to get the TA down to 80 or so, then I will add my borates and continue to get my TA down to 50.
Since the tub is indoors, I can't let the sun burn it off. I will see what the FC is tomorrow when I get it all balanced. I will may just have to take one for the team and go in for a short soak to lower the FC a bit. I'm going to continue to use dichlor untilmy CYA is up to 30. Surprisingly, I can't smell the chlorine, even at the high level it is at right now.
Since the tub is indoors, I can't let the sun burn it off. I will see what the FC is tomorrow when I get it all balanced. I will may just have to take one for the team and go in for a short soak to lower the FC a bit. I'm going to continue to use dichlor untilmy CYA is up to 30. Surprisingly, I can't smell the chlorine, even at the high level it is at right now.
That is what a few of the pros here told me I should go to with a tub so small. It is my understanding it will help with Ph swing when I add my sanitizer after a soak.
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