"Dumb" Variable speed pump

[Sandy Pool]

10,000 gals, solar, cartridge filter, in-line suction cleaner.

I'm in the market to replace my old-and-dying single-speed 1HP pump. I am inclined toward a variable speed replacement.

I don't see that this question has ever been addressed: Every model I have seen has sophisticated electronics and user interface to control its operation; but I have a good control system (Intermatic PE953, which btw, for the money, I like a lot) already. It seems to me that I should be able to save money by paying only for the pump without a built-in controller.


It's this possible?

 

[mas985]

Welcome to the forum!

Variable speed motors require variable frequency drives (VFDs) which are complex and have expensive electronics. No way around it. The timers in the drive are only a very small part of the drive's function.

However, if you want most of the savings of a VS pump at a more reasonable cost, then a two speed pump is a good choice.

 

[ConradM]

You have to have some way to change the speeds. You can get one with the controller on the pump. Look at Jandy Flow Pro

 

[mas985]

These also have controllers/drives on the pump:

Pentair Intelliflo VS/VF
Pentair SuperFlo VS

Hayward EcoStar VS
Hayward MaxFlo VS

Most VS pump these days have both speed and timer control on the pump itself.

 

[Sandy Pool]

Thanks for the link to Wikipedia's VFD explanation, as well as the pump references. I'm still trying to figure the relationship between my smart-controller and the pump electronics. Apparently, my Intermatic only sends on/off/speed signals which must be "interpreted" by still-necessary on-board-the-pump electronics.

So, with the information you've given me, I see pumps that have an on-board controller; which begs the question: if not on-board, where is that controller otherwise found?

 

[chiefwej]

The pump onboard controls have programmable external switching. For example on my Pentair Intelliflow I have a preset speed selected for "ext 2". When my solar controller call for heat, it activates that control and ramps up the pump to that speed for the solar panels. When it's done, it returns control to the programming I have set-up on the pump.

 

[atttech-2]

which begs the question: if not on-board, where is that controller otherwise found?

Control system boxes usually near the equipment pad, systems like Easy Touch, Intelli Touch, AquaLink to name a few. Usually used when people want to control multiple devices Saltwater generators, lights, heaters, waterfalls, and/or want some automation/remote/internet control. The sky is the limit on what they can do and of course what you can pay for them to do it. Sounds like you don't need all that so I wold go with either onboard or 2-speed as mentioned above.

Most if not all the pumps that have the controller onboard are built in such a way that you can remove the controller from the pump and mount it on a wall near the pump with a small data wire. That way you don't have to program or control the pump from the ground.

 

[mas985]

Apparently, my Intermatic only sends on/off/speed signals which must be "interpreted" by still-necessary on-board-the-pump electronics.

Which Intermatic do you have? Most only turn power on and off which would work fine with a VS but it would not change speeds.

But you really don't need the Intermatic with a VS. Most VS pumps have a built in timer that will turn on and off the pump plus change speeds. An external timer is unnecessary.

 

[Sandy Pool]

My Intermatic system is a PE653 with the PE5043 module. It is programmable to control a 2spd or variable speed pump, as well as relays for valves, 120v lights, etc.

So, I'm going the opposite way... starting with the already-installed controller intelligence and looking for a (cheap) pump controller that doesn't have a fancy timer that duplicates what I already have.

 

[mas985]

A two speed pump is really your only option. They don't really make a dumb or cheap VS pump. The cheapest VS that would work with your current controller (and control the speeds) is a SuperFlo VS 342001.

Pentair SuperFlo VS Energy Efficient Variable Speed Pool Pump | 1.5HP Single Phase 115-230V 50-60HZ | 342001

But an even cheaper option would be to just replace your current pump motor with a two speed motor at about 1/2 the cost of the VS. Plus in FL (i.e. low electrical rates), the life time cost of a two speed pump will probably end up being less than a VS.

 

[Sandy Pool]

Thank you, @mas985. I've spent the weekend researching options, your Pentair suggestion in particular. (One problem I have is that the Pentair manuals seem to be the same for different models, e.g. 342000 and 342001, so I can't determine fine differences.)

Compared to the 342001, the differences I see in the 342000 are:
1. $135 less expensive
2. No timer (which I don't need)
3. A predecessor model (?)
4. 230 volt only (which I have)
5. Some confusing terminology on speeds: "Three adjustable operating speed settings plus override capability"

Can you comment on anything else I'm missing? For what I see and understand, the price for the 342000 is very appealing.

On the speeds question (#5): Does this mean I am limited to three factory preset speeds? Or can I tinker with what I need and program three preset-by-me speeds? Are the low (600 RPM) and max (3450 RPM) speeds in addition, so I really have five speeds? Or do I totally misunderstand what I'm reading?

Would someone in central Florida PM me with recommendations for an installer that would trigger the Pentair warranty?

Lastly, I haven't overlooked your recommendation to consider a 2-speed pump. Any particular model? Would you advise replacing only the motor? (I inherited the current pump and I don't know the brand. The motor had been rebuilt and it connects to the wet end via a round flange tightened by an aluminum band.)

Thank you for your time to read/digest this and to respond.

 

[mas985]

Can you comment on anything else I'm missing? For what I see and understand, the price for the 342000 is very appealing.

Besides the timer, the 342000 does not have the pin outs for the pump control.

Here is the 342001 manual. Look at page 4: http://www.pentairpool.com/pdfs/SuperFloVS1.5OM.pdf

Here is the 342000 manual: http://www.pentairpool.com/pdfs/SuperFloVSOM.pdf

Lastly, I haven't overlooked your recommendation to consider a 2-speed pump. Any particular model?

The SuperFlo comes in a two speed as well (340042).

But I was suggesting just changing out the motor of your existing pump. If you tell me the make & model of your existing pump, I can suggest a two speed motor replacement. That would be a little cheaper than replacing the entire pump.

 

[Sandy Pool]

I found the tag: StaRite 70GPM 1HP #P2RA5E-181L

 

[mas985]

If the pump is wired for 115v, then you would want the B2981 motor. If it is wired for 230v, you want the B2980 motor. The motors are full rated 3/4 HP but that is the same as an up rated 1 HP which is what you have. You can google the motor number to find suppliers. If you go this route make sure you get a seal kit as well for the pump.