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Thread: Simple pH question.

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    cubbybeave08's Avatar
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    Simple pH question.

    Opened Pool this weekend...couldn't wait...Everything is good except pH...

    I bought Borax and added about 47 oz and it hasn't budged...

    Here are my numbers
    FC 5
    TC 5
    pH 7.0
    TA 70
    CH 150
    and
    CYA 40

    My question is, does water temperature play any effect on the accuracy of pH reading? and one more I just thought of...Does pH come up right away, or does it take some time with the pump running to get it to come up. Pool Calc says I should add about 74 ounces of Borax to bring it up, I have added about 47 ounces so far. I want to add gradually and make sure that I don't add too much and then have a high pH. So how long should it take to see my pH climb to say 7.2 or 7.4. I think I was aiming for 7.5 on the Pool Calc.
    Beave
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    JasonLion's Avatar
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    Re: Simple pH question.

    The PH reading should be done with the sample at the same temperature that if came from the pool. You don't want the sample to warm up, or cool down, significantly before the PH test is done. Other than that the PH test is reliable from just above freezing to well above spa temperatures.

    It can take borax a little while, up to perhaps an hour in an extreme case, to fully dissolve and mix into the pool water. It doesn't dissolve instantly, but it is reasonably fast.
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    cubbybeave08's Avatar
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    Re: Simple pH question.

    Quote Originally Posted by JasonLion
    The PH reading should be done with the sample at the same temperature that if came from the pool. You don't want the sample to warm up, or cool down, significantly before the PH test is done. Other than that the PH test is reliable from just above freezing to well above spa temperatures.

    It can take borax a little while, up to perhaps an hour in an extreme case, to fully dissolve and mix into the pool water. It doesn't dissolve instantly, but it is reasonably fast.
    Jason thanks for the help. I was using my old Leslie's kit from last year and it only tests to 7.0...I gotta believe that after adding 4 lbs of Borax over the course of the day I finally got it up to a color close to 7.2...So I gotta believe that it was way below 7.0. I then added 15 oz of pH up from last year, and it went to 7.4 within an hour. I will test a little more today. The pH up increased my TA from 70 to 80 still ok!
    Beave
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    Re: Simple pH question.

    Are you using trichlor tabs? If so that would explain the very low pH and also if that is true you want to run your TA much higher...as much as 100-120 ppm.

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    cubbybeave08's Avatar
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    Re: Simple pH question.

    Quote Originally Posted by waterbear
    Are you using trichlor tabs? If so that would explain the very low pH and also if that is true you want to run your TA much higher...as much as 100-120 ppm.
    No I don't use Trichlor as a routine. I might use them if I am out of town and don't want to come back to a mess. But generally I use liquid chlorine 10% if I can find it or just straight bleach. When I put the pool to bed in the fall I used Cal Hypo granules...about 3 bags worth I think. My FC and TC are both 5...but that isn't the same as Trichlor right? Right now as of 12 noon today TA has gone from 70 yesterday to 90 today. After adding the pH up last night.
    Beave
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    Re: Simple pH question.

    The TA rise from pH increaser (sodium carbonate) is normal and expected. It wil raise both pH AND TA!

    Do you keep your pool covered, perhaps over the winder? This will prevent the outgassing of CO2 and can lead to pH drop, espeically if your TA is on the high side.

    BTW, there has been a very recent rule change about the length of signatures.
    rules-for-signatures-and-avatars-please-read-t3903.html
    They are now limited to 5 lines so we are asking people to comply as we come across them. Since this is a brand new rule that many of our older members may miss we are letting people know as we come across longer signatures so don't think I am picking on you! (That's frustratedpoolmom's job! )

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    frustratedpoolmom's Avatar
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    Re: Simple pH question.

    You know it!
    Helpful links: Pool School; CYA/Chlorine Chart
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    cubbybeave08's Avatar
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    Re: Simple pH question.

    Quote Originally Posted by waterbear
    The TA rise from pH increaser (sodium carbonate) is normal and expected. It wil raise both pH AND TA!

    Do you keep your pool covered, perhaps over the winder? This will prevent the outgassing of CO2 and can lead to pH drop, espeically if your TA is on the high side.

    BTW, there has been a very recent rule change about the length of signatures.
    rules-for-signatures-and-avatars-please-read-t3903.html
    They are now limited to 5 lines so we are asking people to comply as we come across them. Since this is a brand new rule that many of our older members may miss we are letting people know as we come across longer signatures so don't think I am picking on you! (That's frustratedpoolmom's job! )
    And I know she is busy because she has a leaky watchama callit on the thingy coming out of the filter. Consider it changed...

    The Pool was covered all winter, and when I put it away if I remember correctly, The pH was running a little low, and my TA was about 110 all last summer...My pool was air tight most of the winter. So that could be the cause...But I checked it at lunch and it was 7.4...So I am going to increase just a little more..and see what happens...I would like to be squarely at 7.4 to 7.5...but it is a little hard to tell with the color comparator...I want to make sure.
    Beave
    Aqua Leader 24ft Round AG Wil-Bar Influence w/54 inch walls 13,500 gallons
    Swimline J-Blue Opal Liner, 1 4X20 Fafco Solar Bear Solar Heater
    Hayward 2 HP Swim Pro Voyager Pump Micro 150 with 4 way timer
    Swim Pro Voyager Filtration System with Hayward ABS Pearl wide mouth skimmer

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    cubbybeave08's Avatar
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    Re: Simple pH question.

    Quote Originally Posted by cubbybeave08
    Quote Originally Posted by waterbear
    The TA rise from pH increaser (sodium carbonate) is normal and expected. It wil raise both pH AND TA!

    Do you keep your pool covered, perhaps over the winder? This will prevent the outgassing of CO2 and can lead to pH drop, espeically if your TA is on the high side.

    BTW, there has been a very recent rule change about the length of signatures.
    rules-for-signatures-and-avatars-please-read-t3903.html
    They are now limited to 5 lines so we are asking people to comply as we come across them. Since this is a brand new rule that many of our older members may miss we are letting people know as we come across longer signatures so don't think I am picking on you! (That's frustratedpoolmom's job! )
    And I know she is busy because she has a leaky watchama callit on the thingy coming out of the filter. Consider it changed...

    The Pool was covered all winter, and when I put it away if I remember correctly, The pH was running a little low, and my TA was about 110 all last summer...My pool was air tight most of the winter. So that could be the cause...But I checked it at lunch and it was 7.4...So I am going to increase just a little more..and see what happens...I would like to be squarely at 7.4 to 7.5...but it is a little hard to tell with the color comparator...I want to make sure.
    Numbers as of noon today:
    FC 5
    TC 5
    CC...as best I can tell with the color comparator...Getting TF soon
    pH 7.4
    TA 90
    CH 150
    CYA 40
    If it were only warmer...I'd be ready to swim!!!
    Beave
    Aqua Leader 24ft Round AG Wil-Bar Influence w/54 inch walls 13,500 gallons
    Swimline J-Blue Opal Liner, 1 4X20 Fafco Solar Bear Solar Heater
    Hayward 2 HP Swim Pro Voyager Pump Micro 150 with 4 way timer
    Swim Pro Voyager Filtration System with Hayward ABS Pearl wide mouth skimmer

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    Re: Simple pH question.

    I would not worry about a pH of 7.4. If you are using bleach and cal hypo it will not really drop if the pool is uncovered now and might actually rise on its own with a TA of 90. You are golden right now.

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    cubbybeave08's Avatar
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    Re: Simple pH question.

    Quote Originally Posted by waterbear
    I would not worry about a pH of 7.4. If you are using bleach and cal hypo it will not really drop if the pool is uncovered now and might actually rise on its own with a TA of 90. You are golden right now.
    Thanks Waterbear...Just what I wanted to hear...I threw in a little more pH up last night and it came up to 7.5...so if was Golden before...would I be considered platinum now???
    Beave
    Aqua Leader 24ft Round AG Wil-Bar Influence w/54 inch walls 13,500 gallons
    Swimline J-Blue Opal Liner, 1 4X20 Fafco Solar Bear Solar Heater
    Hayward 2 HP Swim Pro Voyager Pump Micro 150 with 4 way timer
    Swim Pro Voyager Filtration System with Hayward ABS Pearl wide mouth skimmer

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    Re: Simple pH question.

    Quote Originally Posted by cubbybeave08
    Quote Originally Posted by waterbear
    I would not worry about a pH of 7.4. If you are using bleach and cal hypo it will not really drop if the pool is uncovered now and might actually rise on its own with a TA of 90. You are golden right now.
    Thanks Waterbear...Just what I wanted to hear...I threw in a little more pH up last night and it came up to 7.5...so if was Golden before...would I be considered platinum now???
    NO, the pH up just caused your TA to go up also. This might lead to some pH instablilty problems and increased acid usage. You were golden, now you are leaden!
    Perhaps this thread will help:
    ta-what-is-it-really-t4979.html

    When you are using unstabilized chlorine (like your bleach and cal hypo) then the recommended TA range is lower than when you are using stabilized chlorine, bromine, or MPS because the latter are all acidic and the higher TA will help neutralize the extra acidity being added by the sanitizer. This is in line with what is taught in CPI courses and is what is recommended by the ASPI in their guidelines.


    Now I am not saying that the extra pH up WILL cause problems with pH but you have greatly increased the possibility that thee can be problems with pH. If you had done nothing then the pH would have gone up on it's own over time.

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    frustratedpoolmom's Avatar
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    Re: Simple pH question.

    Gettin' cocky now, aren't you? :P
    Helpful links: Pool School; CYA/Chlorine Chart
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    cubbybeave08's Avatar
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    Re: Simple pH question.

    Quote Originally Posted by frustratedpoolmom
    Gettin' cocky now, aren't you? :P
    Couldn't be this cocky without your help...But yeah...I work with several pool owners...who always open up to green pools...They all were jealous when I told them if the water were warmer I could swim on day two after opening.
    Beave
    Aqua Leader 24ft Round AG Wil-Bar Influence w/54 inch walls 13,500 gallons
    Swimline J-Blue Opal Liner, 1 4X20 Fafco Solar Bear Solar Heater
    Hayward 2 HP Swim Pro Voyager Pump Micro 150 with 4 way timer
    Swim Pro Voyager Filtration System with Hayward ABS Pearl wide mouth skimmer

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