SWG Unit and Ozone

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frankgh

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Dec 20, 2007
89
Navarre FL
Hi All,

I am planning on losing my off line cloronator and adding a SWG. All the reading I have done says to plumb the cell into your system last (after pump, filter, heater, etc). But what do I do with my O3 generator? I'm sure I don't want to pump that ozone over the cell but I've not even seen this question brought up. Thoughts anyone?
 
Does your ozonator require a water line or is it just a single air line connected to a venturi? Either way, the ozone should be injected last, but if it requires a line in I'm not sure if there'd be a benefit to plumbing the inlet line in before the heater or the SWG. The ones I've seen are all plumbed in after both, and I think that's what the Del folks say to do.
 
Poolsean said:
Before the cell. It provides the benefit of oxidizing contaminants prior to the cell, which means there's less work for the cell to do...which results in longer cell life!
Click to expand...
i'll disagree with you on that one

the cell will generate exactly same amount of chlorine regardless of whether the pool is green from algae or sparkling clean
(unless you have ORP sensor sitting between the place you inject ozone and your cell)
 
Poolsean said:
Strannik, I don't think we're disagreeing on anything. The fact is that if the ozone generator is taking care of some of the chlorine demand, the salt system's output can be reduced, which energizes the cell less often, resulting in longer cell life.
Click to expand...

sure
but that doesn't depend on where the ozone generator is located
it can even have it's own separate piping and pump :)
 

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Boy, I make this post, leave town for a couple days on business and look at the generated discussion!

I should first add, my Prozone unit is the venturi type.

I went to my local pool dealer today and ordered an AquaRite system. They are going to do the install for $200.00. I asked them about this question (before logging on here tonight) and they said they would plumb the O3 in last. But, now I'm confuesd... Would it be better to have the cell last or not? I like what Sean had to say but had not posted what kind of O3 system I had.

Anyway, it is scheduled for install on the 27th so we have just over a week to unconfuse me!!

Seriously, thanks for all the interest and the discussion, my ears are still wide open!
 
it will last regardless of where you put it
what Sean is referring to is that Ozone generator provides extra oxidizing capabilities, which allows you to turn down your SWG. It will do it regardless of where you plumb it.

On the other hand, ozone generators also have a working element which requires periodic replacements. So you need to calculate whether you are actually saving any money when you consider the whole package rather than just the SWG.

Also, some reports claim that ozone actually kills chlorine and reduces its effectiveness.

This situation actually reminds me about some of our customers.
In Australia we have certain cheaper electricity tariffs, which are only on during off-peak hours.
However to be able to use it, you need to hardwire your equipment. usually it's used for power intensive stuff which doesn't need to be on all the time, like water heaters, pool pumps, SWGs etc.

What people tend not to take into account, is the costs of hardwiring the unit and potential costs to disconnect it when you need to bring it in for repair.

A lot of times in the long run they end up spending more money than they save on electricity.
 
I had the O3 unit installed when the pool was built last year. I did it not to replace or reduce CL levels but just to enhance sanitation. Right or wrong, it seemed like a good idea at the time so I am planning on keeping it till failure, then retiring it.

CL and O3 are both highly reactive. The SWG cell I assume is made to handle the CL but I was not sure how it would handle high levels of O3 traveling over the plates. It seems my fears of the O3 doing damage to the cell are unfounded, but I just wanted to double check before the system gets installed.

How low would you all recommend I run the CL with the O3 running with a CYA of 50? My builder/local store has the free chlorine range at 1.0-1.5 for O3 and non O3 pools alike. I have been maintaining 1.5 the 1st year and have had sparkling water.

Still hear, ears open!
:wave:
 
Though the ozonator is one more part of the circulation system along with the SWG that can kill floating green algae that passes by, neither the ozone nor the high chlorine in the SWG will do anything for any algae growing on pool surfaces that does not get circulated and it takes multiple turnovers of the pool water to get most of it circulated anyway. Only chlorine in the bulk pool water kills such algae. So the general rule for an SWG would require a minimum of 2.2 ppm FC at 50 ppm CYA to prevent algae.

Of course, this is very dependent on other factors and your particular pool may be low in phosphates or nitrates or have less than ideal sunlight conditions, etc. You can certainly run at 1.5 ppm FC if you feel lucky, but if you do end up with some algae growth in the future you'll know that having the FC a little higher can most likely prevent it.

Richard
 
frankgh,

I agree with what you're doing 100%. I would add that the chlorine level you want to maintain, is dependant on ensuring your pool is clean of algae. For some, it may require higher than 1.5 ppm. For some, it may be as low as 0.5 (indoor, covered, and lightly used pools).

There really is a benefit to having the ozone injected before the cell and that is that more contaminants will be treated by the ozone, prior to the cell. Again, this allows you to reduce the output of the cell to maintain the same amount of chlorine in the pool. Strannik is right in that even if you plumb the ozone after the cell, it will still ozonate the water, but not as efficiently as before. `
As an example, the Canadian system, Ultrapure, is primarily installed in the pump drain plug to ensure the longest "Contact Time" possible in a standard residential plumbing scheme. Most commercial ozone systems have a large volume "mixing chamber" to provide the longer contact time.
AutoPilot just came out with the Co-Pilot series, which incorporates either the Cubby unit or Digital unit with the ozone venturi built in with the Manifold, prior to the cell. http://www.autopilot.com/index.php?cPat ... 66ac18ce1e

Richard, I would disagree with you on your statement that ozone will kill algae. Ozone has very little ability to kill algae, especially since it is released into the atmosphere quickly after returning to the pool. There is virtually no ozone that is kept in the pool water as a measurable lasting residual.
 
Poolsean said:
Richard, I would disagree with you on your statement that ozone will kill algae. Ozone has very little ability to kill algae, especially since it is released into the atmosphere quickly after returning to the pool. There is virtually no ozone that is kept in the pool water as a measurable lasting residual.
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I meant that the ozone in the ozonator as well as the superchlorination in the SWG cell would kill algea that was free-floating and circulating in those systems (that's what I meant by "that passes by"). As you point out, neither the SWG superchlorination nor ozone will kill algae that remains in the bulk pool water or on pool surfaces. Only the residual chlorine in the bulk pool water, which an SWG provides and an ozonator does not, will kill or prevent algae growth in the bulk pool water.

Sorry for any confusion by my earlier post. To be clear, an ozone system by itself will not prevent algae growth. An SWG system will, but not because it's an SWG, but because it adds chlorine to the bulk pool water. A manual system of adding chlorine (such as chlorinating liquid or bleach) will also prevent algae growth assuming the appropriate FC/CYA level is maintained.

Richard
 
Poolsean said:
Strannik is right in that even if you plumb the ozone after the cell, it will still ozonate the water, but not as efficiently as before.
Click to expand...

I still disagree with you :D
Ozone is mainly broken up by water, not dissipates in atmosphere.
I guess we need a specialist on ozone systems here :)

In my opinion, whether it's plumbed before or after doesn't matter.
Ozone life in water is about 15-20 minutes. So for those 15-20 minutes it will do it's job, killing off some of the bad stuff which leaves less stuff to kill for SWG.

We can argue this forever, but in my opinion when you have X amount of stuff you need to kill it doesn't matter if you plumb the ozone before the cell or after as the given amount of chlorine+ozone will be able to kill a predefined amount of bad stuff. :)
 
Strannik said:
In my opinion, whether it's plumbed before or after doesn't matter.
Ozone life in water is about 15-20 minutes. So for those 15-20 minutes it will do it's job, killing off some of the bad stuff which leaves less stuff to kill for SWG.
Click to expand...
Actually, not quite true, It's HALF-LIFE in water is about0 12-15 minutes at a pH of 7 and a temp of about 25 - 30 deg C (about 75 - 85 deg F). It's half-life shortens as both pH and temp rise. That means half the ozone is gone that time so if you started with 2 ppm ozone you would have about 1 ppm after that time. Where the ozone is introduces will also have an effect since chlorine destroys ozone and vice versa so if you are injecting it after the cell (which will probably have the highest FC level except for IN the cell) you are destroying both some of the ozone and chlorine. If you are injecting it before the cell (which should have the lowest FC level) then this effect is minimized somewhat.
 
in this case it makes even more sense to have separate plumbing for ozone, because if you introduce it before the cell, it will still reach it and they will destroy each other :)
unless the distance is very far and it takes ozone 20 minutes to get to the cell :)

in residential installation where distances are very short i don't think there is a significant difference
 

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