Newb Needs Help With Testing / Chemicals

[cfiiman]

Hi Everyone,

I've been reading through the pool school, etc. and have an issue I was hoping to get your feedback on. I have my water tested at Pinch a Penny for me and do their recommendations but lately it seems like each one of their recommendations leads to me buying more stuff to counteract the effect they just told me to do. I don't know if this is coincidence or something is amiss but thought I'd ask you pros. My water was in really nice shape and they're printout told me to add a cup of acid, so I did. Then tested it 2 days later and their print out said to add 2 cups of acid, I found that odd b/c there has been no rain or anything but ok I did it. So I had it tested today and now my total alkalinity is low so they told me to buy Total Alkalinity increaser (which I did) and add 5 lbs to the pool. I just wanted to check with you guys before doing this b/c it seems to me the acid I added caused what I'm having to do now (just taking an un-educated guess could be totally wrong?) and don't want to chase things. I bought my own 6 way test strip but I've never been good at reading them, they seem like they're difficult to get accurate to me. So is it just coincidence that I need to add base now that I've added the acid they told me to or ? Here was my numbers that the lady at the store gave me on the print out, although my test strip seems to show my stabilizer closer to 50-60 but that is with me reading it so who knows:

TC 5.0
FC 5.0
CC 0.0
PH 7.6
TA 60 PPM
CH 250 PPM
Stabilizer 100 PPM (my test strip shows 50-60 to me)

Any help/guidance is appreciated as this is my first pool, thanks and love the forum.

 

[tim5055]

Welcome to TFP!

You have fallen into the pool store circle. Recommend something then next week you need something to reverse what you did.

Don't put in theTA increaser. Return it to them and get your money back. IF you need to increase your TA use plain old baking soda from WalMart.

First you need your on test kit. Pool store testing is the pits and test strips are even worse.

Order a TF1-100 from TFTestkits.net If you want to make testing easier add the SpeedStir and the Sample Sizer. If memory serves me right that should run you about $125 ($68 if you only get the test kit) plus shipping. You will save this money on the first couple of trips to the pool store you skip, because from now on you will be getting your pool supplies at big box stores - WalMart, Lowes or Home Depot.

The biggest problem I see is your CYA/Stabilizer. 100 is pool store code for its so high we can't test it. Can I guess you chlorinate ith 3" tabs and throw some shock in every weekend?

If it were my pool I would raise the FC up to about 10 with liquid chlorine (plain generic bleach works) and keep it there until you get your test kit and we get real numbers to work with.

Stay away from that pool store, they are not your friends!

Keep reading Pool School, especially the ABC's of Pool Water Chemistry.

 

[BuckeyeChris]

and if their TA reading is accurate (again, you need to verify) a TA of 60 is just fine. You can go higher if your pH is always dropping, or you can go lower if your pH is always rising.

What you didn't list was your pH test. You should add acid based on your pH reading.

 

[cfiiman]

Thanks for the reponse guys, sorry about not including the PH, it was 7.6. Ok, I'll take the stuff back and I'll ditch the strips and get a real test kit. My water is crystal clear, and yes I did "shock the pool" with their liquid chlorine BUT, the guy told me to put in half the 2.5 gallon jug and I didn't I only put in a .5 gallon (after reading the instructions). Not even sure why they recommended the shock of chlorine when my chlorine is high anyway? And yes I have a Pentair model 320 chlorinator that I add Suncoast complete 3" tablets to, but I was thinking I should only add 2 a week. A "pool guy" has been taking care of it up until a week and a half ago for the previous owner but I'd rather do it myself. He told me he adds 3 tablets a week and every other week liquid chlorine I don't know if that is a good plan or not but being that my chlorine is so high I'd rather just hold off on adding any tablets until it comes down some. I also opened my chlorinator for the first time today to find a completely destroyed gasket that was in pieces all over the place, nice of him to tell me. So I vacuumed it all out and got a new gasket and screen, but want to hold off on the tablets for now.

 

[tim5055]

Thanks for the reponse guys, sorry about not including the PH, it was 7.6. Ok, I'll take the stuff back and I'll ditch the strips and get a real test kit. My water is crystal clear, and yes I did "shock the pool" with their liquid chlorine BUT, the guy told me to put in half the 2.5 gallon jug and I didn't I only put in a .5 gallon (after reading the instructions). Not even sure why they recommended the shock of chlorine when my chlorine is high anyway? And yes I have a Pentair model 320 chlorinator that I add Suncoast complete 3" tablets to, but I was thinking I should only add 2 a week. A "pool guy" has been taking care of it up until a week and a half ago for the previous owner but I'd rather do it myself. He told me he adds 3 tablets a week and every other week liquid chlorine I don't know if that is a good plan or not but being that my chlorine is so high I'd rather just hold off on adding any tablets until it comes down some. I also opened my chlorinator for the first time today to find a completely destroyed gasket that was in pieces all over the place, nice of him to tell me. So I vacuumed it all out and got a new gasket and screen, but want to hold off on the tablets for now.

About half of each of those tabs is stabilizer, it's not all chlorine. Stabilizer protects the chlorine from the UV of the sun but it moderates/reduces the effectiveness of the chlorine. Because of this you need to get out of the thought process of 5 being "high" for chlorine. The higher your CYA level the higher you need to keep the FC to effectively kill algae and other bad stuff in the water.

Check out this chart - Pool School - Chlorine / CYA Chart

As you can see, if your CYA is ONLY 100 your MINIMUM FC level should be 7 and you should target 12 to keep it above 7.

Right now your chlorine is LOW, not high.

You need to stop using all forms of solid chlorine and only use liquid forms.

 

[cfiiman]

About half of each of those tabs is stabilizer, it's not all chlorine. Stabilizer protects the chlorine from the UV of the sun but it moderates/reduces the effectiveness of the chlorine. Because of this you need to get out of the thought process of 5 being "high" for chlorine. The higher your CYA level the higher you need to keep the FC to effectively kill algae and other bad stuff in the water.

Check out this chart - Pool School - Chlorine / CYA Chart

As you can see, if your CYA is ONLY 100 your MINIMUM FC level should be 7 and you should target 12 to keep it above 7.

Right now your chlorine is LOW, not high.

You need to stop using all forms of solid chlorine and only use liquid forms.

Ok, I've succeeded in just getting more confused So I don't want to add the 3" tablets ever again (good thing I just bought a big box lol)? How often do I add the liquid chlorine I bought, I figured just once a week b/c of what the pool guy said but now if I'm not ever going to put a tablet in the system I have no idea as I was using his approach. How do I get my stabilizer down do I need to? Thanks for any help.

 

[BuckeyeChris]

Sustained use of pucks, without frequent dilution from rain or partial draining each year, will result in high CYA. Partial drain is the only reliable way to lower CYA. If you have a high water table, you probably shouldn't drain a whole lot of water out, the pool could pop up. There are more effective methods though, of adding fresh water on top while draining from the bottom, sometimes with a large tarp in between to keep the water separated. IT will just take a lot longer to bring the CYA down than a one-time 80% water replacement.

Once your stabilizer is at an acceptable level, somewhere from 30 to 50 or 60 ppm, you would add liquid chlorine each night to bring the Chlorine level back up, to keep it above the minimum level for the next 24 hours. Each day you will lose roughly 3-4 ppm to UV burnoff. Less in the winter.

 

[pabeader]

Let's not forget the basics here.

We need signature filled out and pics of pool and equipment. Otherwise we're kinda blind, right?

 

[BuckeyeChris]

The pool guy is using the liquid as a one-time "shock". We use it here to maintain a totally safe but effective level of chlorine in the pool that will keep algae from ever forming. So you don't ever need to shock your pool.

 

[Texas Splash]

cfiiman, no guessing or confusion required. Go here: Poolmath calculator . Simply enter your NOW and TARGET fields and let the calculator tell you how much to add - of anything. A pool is like a pet, it must be fed each day, whether manually or by an automated chorine products (i.e. Stenner pump or SWG). Once your pool water is properly balanced, you may simply add 1/2 gallon of bleach a day. Easy stuff. But use that calculator.

Also, please add your pool info to your signature by going to the top of the TFP web page (just under the Pool School button) and select "SETTINGS". On the next page look to the left for a menu bar that says, “MY SETTINGS” and go to "EDIT SIGNATURE" to enter your pool and equipment info there. It will help us later. Have a nice day.

 

[tim5055]

Well, getting folks more confused is usually the purview of the pool store, but by the sheer volume of information to understand we can do it also.

There are two controllable** ways to reduce stabilizer, replace water in your pool or reverse osmosis. I doubt if RO is available in Sarasota and if it was I'm not sure you would like the price tag. So, that leaves us with water replacement. But, step #1 is your own test kit so we have reliable numbers.

When first starting out with our methods you will test and add liquid chlorine every day. After a couple of weeks you will get a good feel for the pool and stretch out the testing to every other or ever few days. But, just like that puck dispenser you have adds chlorine every day you need to do the same thing. You will get a feel for your pool and understand it's daily appetite. Depending on the time of year (long hot days use more chlorine, short cold days use less) my pool uses about 3 quarts of 8.25% generic bleach each day. I now have an automated pump that adds the bleach for me, but before I installed it each morning I would just pour bleach into the pool as I was drinking my coffee.

Don't throw those tabs away. You use them for vacations and time away when you can't add liquid. Heck, you live in Florida. It rains every afternoon. Those rain additions will slowly reduce your CYA level.

Which leads me to my final point- Unless you are having a problem with your pool (algae, cloudy water, smells like yesterdays special from Captain D's) you can live with high CYA. You just have to raise the level of chlorine you keep in your pool. As you see in my signature, when I purchased my house/pool my first testing revealed my CYA was over 200, 250 or so if my numbers are correct. I took 18 months to get it down to 70. That was thru aggressive backwashing, a few small drain and refills as well as harvesting rainwater from a roof gutter to get free !water. If you follow this path you have to raise your chlorine level up to where it needs to be ion ratio to your CYA. Most of the time my chlorine was just below 20. As my CYA slowly went down my need for chlorine went down. Heck, with the storms that just rolled through South Carolina my CYA is no down to 40 and I'm going to have to add some before next spring.

**The third way CYA goes down is through bacterial action. There is a bacteria that converts CYA to ammonia and in a perfect word fully converts on to nitrogen gas. There is a company now selling a product based on this bacteria but as of yet we have seen no accurate independent reports of it working as advertised. We have had a couple of people post here that it worked perfectly, but they were always first time posters who never returned. Long time members who attempted it's use in controlled conditions, documenting each step were never able to get it to work. At about $60 a "treatment" it gets expensive quick. I say this to warn you , don't fall for pool store miracle products.

 

[cfiiman]

Thanks guys, I'm definitely feeling overwhelmed I feel like I need to get more accurate numbers, but honestly I've never trusted myself to do the readings, I don't know if it is b/c my eyes don't effectively seperate the colors or what but that is why I want a more experienced person to test it for me. Certainly the people at pool stores know what they're doing I would think, at least better than me, but then I read here that b/c my Stabilizer is high my chlorine should be high, but the women at the store said 5 was too high so that means she doesn't know her butt from a hole in the ground I guess. I'm going to take it to another store and have it tested and see if my stabilizer is really that high first. I just added about a half to 3/4 gallon of liquid chlorine just now since you all said it was too low. Can I just get chlorine only tablets without the stabilizer in them? That seems a lot more preferable to me then adding chlorine daily, do they not make them without the cya stuff in them or something?

 

[tim5055]

Thanks guys, I'm definitely feeling overwhelmed I feel like I need to get more accurate numbers, but honestly I've never trusted myself to do the readings, I don't know if it is b/c my eyes don't effectively seperate the colors or what but that is why I want a more experienced person to test it for me. Certainly the people at pool stores know what they're doing I would think, at least better than me, but then I read here that b/c my Stabilizer is high my chlorine should be high, but the women at the store said 5 was too high so that means she doesn't know her butt from a hole in the ground I guess. I'm going to take it to another store and have it tested and see if my stabilizer is really that high first. I just added about a half to 3/4 gallon of liquid chlorine just now since you all said it was too low. Can I just get chlorine only tablets without the stabilizer in them? That seems a lot more preferable to me then adding chlorine daily, do they not make them without the cya stuff in them or something?

Do yourself a favor, all pool store testing is bad. So bad that none of us here will give recommendations based on it. Order your own kit. The one we recommend does not require separation of colors. The only one that does is the pH test. The other ones are looking for a color shift, ie from red to clear or from red to blue.

No, there a re no solid forms of chlorine that do not have added "stuff". CYA, calcium and lithium are the three things they use to bind the chlorine and make it "solid", remember chlorine is normally a gas.

The daily addition of chlorine sounds worse than it is. Most people do it a s second nature after a few weeks.

 

[cfiiman]

Do yourself a favor, all pool store testing is bad. So bad that none of us here will give recommendations based on it. Order your own kit. The one we recommend does not require separation of colors. The only one that does is the pH test. The other ones are looking for a color shift, ie from red to clear or from red to blue.

No, there a re no solid forms of chlorine that do not have added "stuff". CYA, calcium and lithium are the three things they use to bind the chlorine and make it "solid", remember chlorine is normally a gas.

The daily addition of chlorine sounds worse than it is. Most people do it a s second nature after a few weeks.

I definitely will be adding chlorine daily now, but can I ask do I just keep buying the stuff at Pinch a Penny in the gold suncoast jugs or something else?

 

[BuckeyeChris]

plain unscented bleach. Avoid splashless too. Look for the % of sodium hypochlorite on label. Cheap and weak is 3%. Regular used to be 6%. Now the extra strength and regular are usually 8.25%. In the pool care section, it will be called liquid chlorine and could be 10% or 12.5%. The higher the percentage, the more you have to pay attention to manufacture date, as the higher % will lose strength more rapidly. So to start out, just get regular bleach from a store with high turnover. The pool math calculator has a spot where you select what % you are using, and it adjusts your dose.

 

[tim5055]

I definitely will be adding chlorine daily now, but can I ask do I just keep buying the stuff at Pinch a Penny in the gold suncoast jugs or something else?

It all depends on cost vs. available chlorine. Most of us find that plain generic 8.25% bleach is the most cost effective solution. YOu may be lucky that yours is less expensive from the pool store

You can use a chlorine calculator to compare

Here is one - Chlorine Price Per Ounce Calculator

 

[cfiiman]

Thanks guys. Well I had my water re-tested today at a different pool store (same franchise) while waiting on my test kit to come in. The results were dramatically different which I find laughable. My stabilizer is 60 on this test which jived with my test strip so I believe the place I've been testing/buying from is bogus (although maybe not on purpose hopefully). The instructions from this new place was to...wait for it...do the exact opposite of what the other place said and add 2 cups of acid...wow. I decided to take back the big bucket of tablets I bought the other day and have not touched/opened. When I presented them with the receipt they said they could not take them back b/c of the EPA, huh? He then said if I wanted them to do pool service or something he would "swap them out" on that, but wait that means they would take them back right?!? Anyway I just kinda laughed and said "ok, whatever..." I mean that is pretty crappy in my opinion to do to a new customer (which I won't be anymore), anyway you live and you learn I guess.

 

[Texas Splash]

Exactly. Some store will return them, others play hardball. The test results are laughable. You'll never receive consistency until you have your own "recommended" test kit. But you certainly saw for yourself today how the stores will steer you wrong. That's why we're all here now.

 

[smforte]

Cfiiman.....do yourself a favor and stay out of the pool stores. Speaking from experience, I took my sample to 3 different pool stores and got 3 different results. Also cost me about $600...that was 3 yrs ago. Then I found TFP...I buy Great Value bleach from Walmart and that's about all I put in my pool. Don't let testing intimidate you. I cried when I opened my test kit thinking I'd never learn how to do it. 2-3 test later and I was a pro. Best investment I've ever made for my pool

 

[tim5055]

Thanks guys. Well I had my water re-tested today at a different pool store (same franchise) while waiting on my test kit to come in. The results were dramatically different which I find laughable. My stabilizer is 60 on this test which jived with my test strip so I believe the place I've been testing/buying from is bogus (although maybe not on purpose hopefully). The instructions from this new place was to...wait for it...do the exact opposite of what the other place said and add 2 cups of acid...wow. I decided to take back the big bucket of tablets I bought the other day and have not touched/opened. When I presented them with the receipt they said they could not take them back b/c of the EPA, huh? He then said if I wanted them to do pool service or something he would "swap them out" on that, but wait that means they would take them back right?!? Anyway I just kinda laughed and said "ok, whatever..." I mean that is pretty crappy in my opinion to do to a new customer (which I won't be anymore), anyway you live and you learn I guess.

Yea, not an uncommon way to treat folks. Once they have your mone they never want to give it back - usually credit only at best.

Wait for your test kit and I bet you come up with a third set of numbers. I will believe yours.