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Thread: Seeking Advice - Starting out fresh with a FAS-DPD Complete

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    Seeking Advice - Starting out fresh with a FAS-DPD Complete

    OK, got my pool resurfaced in January from failing plaster to tile. All Tile. Like an idiot, I started out using test strips and managed my pool as if my CH was high. I also followed the directions on the stabilizer after filling the pool and my CYA was 100 after that.

    I believed the strips that my CH was high because I started to see white growths at spots on grout all around the pool, under water. I tried to manage this by bringing my TA and PH down a bit and adding a STAIN/METAL out. Seemed to help.

    But with the high CYA, my FC is high and I suspect throwing the strips off. Taking advice on this forum, I just purchased a Taylor FAS-DPD K-2006. Kit arrived yesterday and here are my results:

    16,000 gallon pool
    FC - 14.5
    CC - 0
    PH - 7.2
    TA - 90 (unadjusted for CYA)
    CH - 90
    CYA - 110
    Temp - 78-80F

    My test strips were giving me dramatically different PH, TA, and CH readings.
    I used the Pool Calc for iPhone I found from this site for the following:
    I immediately drained enough water to lower CYA to 80, hopefully. I'm in Hawaii with plenty of direct sunlight, so that should be reasonable, right?
    After refilling, I added about 8 lbs baking soda to raise TA, I hope to about 110. I then added 10 lbs Calcium Hardener to work toward my goal of 200. I estimate I'll need another 5 lbs.
    Tomorrow I will retest and after getting CYA, TA, and CH inline, I will work getting PH at 7.4
    I'm using a floater with TriChlor Stabilized 3" tabs for daily sanitizer and shocking weekly, as well as adding algaecide weekly.
    I would appreciate any advice on the above, and any thoughts on the white growths on my grout, underwater. Is that Calcium leaching out of the grout? Thanks so much for all the help this forum has given.
    16K Gallon, Rectangular, All Tile Surface, 14'X24'X5'
    1/2HP pump, Sand Filter
    FAS-DPD K-2006
    Year-Round Use!

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    Re: Seeking Advice - Starting out fresh with a FAS-DPD Complete

    Don't know about the spots, but consistently using trichlor tabs will get your CYA back up where you don't want it. After 5 tabs you'll have an extra 10ppm CYA, according to the Pool Calculator.
    --paulr
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    IG plaster pool 18.5K gal, Hayward Pro-Grid DE filter, 3/4 HP Hydramax II; Polaris 380, 3/4 HP booster
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    H2O_Keeper's Avatar
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    Re: Seeking Advice - Starting out fresh with a FAS-DPD Complete

    Your readings actually arent too far off from ideal. You can get away with a 6 -9 FC level for an 80CYA level pool.

    Per PaulR dont miss the section of Effects of Adding Chemicals on the pool calculator. You will be surpised when you think you are only moving one element of balancing with a chemical and then realize its moving others....

    Yes, CYA is a little high even for Hawaii. I would not mess with lowering it anymore through drains though, just let it drop through the normal evaporation/add process in your pool. As long as you keep your CYA/FC ratios in check you will be fine. See the charts in Pool School as your CYA gets lowered.
    21K Gal, IG, Vinyl, Bleach-Borax-Baking Soda, 3/4HP Hayward pump, Hayward sand filter, 200,000BTU Heater, TF100 Testkit
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    Re: Seeking Advice - Starting out fresh with a FAS-DPD Complete

    To reemphasize, the tabs will drive your CYA back up. They will also contribute to keeping your pH low as they are very acidic.

    CYA does not evaporate from a pool. A drain and refill is the only practical way to lower CYA.

    The algaecide is your option but is typically not needed in a balanced pool.

    The white spots on the grout is puzzling. Calcium or efflorescence normally occurs at or above the waterline. Do you have a good picture of it you can post?
    Dave S. - Forum owner
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    Re: Seeking Advice - Starting out fresh with a FAS-DPD Complete

    Hi and welcome.

    Your numbers are fine, you do not need to increase your TA, unless you plan to continue to use the trichlor tabs. If you do, you will need to drain part of your water to lower your CYA considerably, between 30-50, even for Hawaii. TABs will increase your CYA, and you will have to keep the FC considerably higher because of it. Is your pool in use all year? Because with constant use of the trichlor, your CYA could actually be much higher. The comparator tube only goes to 100. In lots of cases what people test as "100" is in reality, anywhere above that, even as high as 200. Then they do a partial drain/refill and their CYA still tests as 100...

    As long as you do keep the FC up according to the chart, you shouldn't see algae, but you do risk an outbreak if you let it drop below the minimum. Also keep an eye on the PH. A higher TA while using tabs will help keep the PH from dropping, but pucks are acidic and you will see the PH going down with their use. Make sure it stays around 7.4.

    I don't know what to say about the spots....hopefully someone else will chime in.

    Until you drain some water out, I would recommend you only use liquid chlorine a.k.a. which won't increase your CYA level. Check out the chart in my sig, if you look at the "target" column, add enough bleach daily to keep you at Target, never let the FC drop below "min" and you might be able to get away with adding bleach every other day. Test daily just to be sure, use the Pool Calc. to determine how much bleach to add.

    Can you post your pool specs and your equipment in your signature? Go to your User Control Panel, Profile, and Edit signature.

    So my advice would be 1., stop using the pucks for daily chlorination until your CYA is in the recommended range., 2., consider doing a partial drain/refill to lower the CYA if you plan to continue using pucks.

    Hope this helps!
    Helpful links: Pool School; CYA/Chlorine Chart
    24' round AG pool, 52" high, Raypak heater; Waterway 2 spd Pump;
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    Re: Seeking Advice - Starting out fresh with a FAS-DPD Complete

    Quote Originally Posted by duraleigh
    CYA does not evaporate from a pool. A drain and refill is the only practical way to lower CYA.
    I am not sure if studies have been done to prove CYA is not removed via evaporation, but either way during refill it is diluted. Go enjoy your pool its fine. Just heed the advice of others about the tabs for now and my advice about the effects of adding chemicals. The pool calculator explains a lot!!!
    21K Gal, IG, Vinyl, Bleach-Borax-Baking Soda, 3/4HP Hayward pump, Hayward sand filter, 200,000BTU Heater, TF100 Testkit
    "All that we are arises with our thoughts." - Buddha
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    Re: Seeking Advice - Starting out fresh with a FAS-DPD Complete

    Quote Originally Posted by SharkinHawaii
    I'm using a floater with TriChlor Stabilized 3" tabs for daily sanitizer and shocking weekly, as well as adding algaecide weekly.
    I would appreciate any advice on the above, and any thoughts on the white growths on my grout, underwater. Is that Calcium leaching out of the grout? Thanks so much for all the help this forum has given.
    Welcome, SiH, and congratulations on the new test kit. You won't be trying to balance your pool blindfolded anymore.

    As has been mentioned, the 3" tabs are going to bring your CYA level right back up so consider a switch to liquid or SWG. There is also no need to shock or add algicide weekly just for the fun of it if you have no CC and the water is looking good. Save both for when you need them.

    The grout is fresh, right? The white spots may just be nodules, which are like little calcium zits that pop from the water pressure. Any tiny void under the grout that gets water in it as it cures will spit out calcium in such a way. I usually find that they don't brush off easily, but your fingernail should be able to scrape one off. A drywall sander does a good job of taking them off without hurting the plaster/tile. If this is your problem it should decrease over time as the grout cures.

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    Re: Seeking Advice - Starting out fresh with a FAS-DPD Complete

    Good points raised here....and I missed the part about shocking and algaecide when I posted the first time.

    With a properly balanced pool, neither is necessary for routine pool maintenance.
    Helpful links: Pool School; CYA/Chlorine Chart
    24' round AG pool, 52" high, Raypak heater; Waterway 2 spd Pump;
    150 Sq ft. Clearwater Cartridge Filter; Former and DISSATISFIED "Pool Frog" owner
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    Re: Seeking Advice - Starting out fresh with a FAS-DPD Complete

    Quote Originally Posted by spishex
    Quote Originally Posted by SharkinHawaii

    The grout is fresh, right? The white spots may just be nodules, which are like little calcium zits that pop from the water pressure. Any tiny void under the grout that gets water in it as it cures will spit out calcium in such a way. I usually find that they don't brush off easily, but your fingernail should be able to scrape one off. A drywall sander does a good job of taking them off without hurting the plaster/tile. If this is your problem it should decrease over time as the grout cures.
    My thought also that these are calcium nodules.
    http://www.poolhelp.com/onBalanceCalciu ... lletin.pdf

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    Re: Seeking Advice - Starting out fresh with a FAS-DPD Complete

    Quote Originally Posted by waterbear
    Quote Originally Posted by spishex
    Quote Originally Posted by SharkinHawaii

    The grout is fresh, right? The white spots may just be nodules, which are like little calcium zits that pop from the water pressure. Any tiny void under the grout that gets water in it as it cures will spit out calcium in such a way. I usually find that they don't brush off easily, but your fingernail should be able to scrape one off. A drywall sander does a good job of taking them off without hurting the plaster/tile. If this is your problem it should decrease over time as the grout cures.
    My thought also that these are calcium nodules.
    http://www.poolhelp.com/onBalanceCalciu ... lletin.pdf
    Thank you Spishex and waterbear. I was wondering, and couldn't find anything mentioning something like this. I am hypothesizing that my low CH was "pulling" the calcium out faster. I'll see what the effects of a CH reading of 200 are.
    16K Gallon, Rectangular, All Tile Surface, 14'X24'X5'
    1/2HP pump, Sand Filter
    FAS-DPD K-2006
    Year-Round Use!

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    Re: Seeking Advice - Starting out fresh with a FAS-DPD Complete

    Thank you all for the replies. I agree that it feels much better to be working on my pool for the first time without being blind, or partially blind.

    I'll post an update after retest and adjustments.

    I was under the impression that with high CYA that algecide would help reduce my FC requirement?

    Thanks for the advice on moving away from CYA. I really had no idea a while ago that it was so accumulative and my 3" pucks AND shock were adding the stuff constantly. Thanks to this forum, that will stop now. Hard though because I find the pucks so EASY to use and the shock makes me feel like I'm really sanitizing the pool.
    16K Gallon, Rectangular, All Tile Surface, 14'X24'X5'
    1/2HP pump, Sand Filter
    FAS-DPD K-2006
    Year-Round Use!

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    Re: Seeking Advice - Starting out fresh with a FAS-DPD Complete

    Quote Originally Posted by H2O_Keeper
    Your readings actually arent too far off from ideal. You can get away with a 6 -9 FC level for an 80CYA level pool.
    Yes, I was annoyed though, because with test strips I was thinking I was ideal! And here I was with a CSI of -1.07.
    16K Gallon, Rectangular, All Tile Surface, 14'X24'X5'
    1/2HP pump, Sand Filter
    FAS-DPD K-2006
    Year-Round Use!

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    Re: Seeking Advice - Starting out fresh with a FAS-DPD Complete

    Quote Originally Posted by SharkinHawaii
    I was under the impression that with high CYA that algaecide would help reduce my FC requirement?
    If you use the algaecide correctly it can lower your FC requirement. However, it is simpler, less expensive, and has fewer negative side effect to simply use the higher amount of FC required without algaecide.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
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    Re: Seeking Advice - Starting out fresh with a FAS-DPD Complete

    Quote Originally Posted by JasonLion
    Quote Originally Posted by SharkinHawaii
    I was under the impression that with high CYA that algaecide would help reduce my FC requirement?
    If you use the algaecide correctly it can lower your FC requirement. However, it is simpler, less expensive, and has fewer negative side effect to simply use the higher amount of FC required without algaecide.
    Gotcha. I'm heading out to COSTCO today to buy some bleach and I'll do my best to swear off all these products (pucks, shock, algaecide) and see how it goes.

    FYI, I'll try to attach a pic of the white growths. The above post mentioned that they are like zits and that is DEAD ON. The picture is a bit fuzzy, I cropped it to focus on the "zit". Since adding CH yesterday, it appears there are fewer of these today...
    Attached Images Attached Images
    16K Gallon, Rectangular, All Tile Surface, 14'X24'X5'
    1/2HP pump, Sand Filter
    FAS-DPD K-2006
    Year-Round Use!

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    Re: Seeking Advice - Starting out fresh with a FAS-DPD Complete

    Quote Originally Posted by spishex
    Quote Originally Posted by SharkinHawaii
    The grout is fresh, right? The white spots may just be nodules, which are like little calcium zits that pop from the water pressure. Any tiny void under the grout that gets water in it as it cures will spit out calcium in such a way. I usually find that they don't brush off easily, but your fingernail should be able to scrape one off. A drywall sander does a good job of taking them off without hurting the plaster/tile. If this is your problem it should decrease over time as the grout cures.
    I should have answered you a little better. Yes, the grout is fresh. Like I said in my last post, zits is a perfect description and they do pop from pressure, because they only grow out near the surface, usually at between 1' and 2' from the surface. There is evidence of them on the bottom, but just sort of stain remnants. They were too hard to clear off, but after adding some metal/stain out, they softened enough to scrub off, the "stains" on the bottom too. You are correct that the fingernail is best. I find myself scraping at these while I should be playing with my kids! OCD in me. Just that the tile is so gorgeous, it's like a big luxury bath tub out there! I hate seeing growths take away from that!
    16K Gallon, Rectangular, All Tile Surface, 14'X24'X5'
    1/2HP pump, Sand Filter
    FAS-DPD K-2006
    Year-Round Use!

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    Re: Seeking Advice - Starting out fresh with a FAS-DPD Complete

    Yep, that looks like a nodule. They'll occur less frequently over time. That tile looks beautiful. Let's see a pic of the pool!

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    Re: Seeking Advice - Starting out fresh with a FAS-DPD Complete

    Quote Originally Posted by spishex
    Yep, that looks like a nodule. They'll occur less frequently over time. That tile looks beautiful. Let's see a pic of the pool!
    Sure, I'll attach one. Our little piece of paradise.

    Glad to report that things have gone well. Thank you all for the advice and assurances in this thread. After just two days with a good test kit, I've switched to BBB, added 17 lbs of CH and 8 lbs of Baking Soda... and have my pool very nicely balanced.

    Just did this a few minutes ago:

    FC - 11.5
    CC - 0
    PH -7.5
    TA - 105 (measured 135, but subtracted 30 with CYA offset)
    CH - 200
    CYA - 90

    CSI = -0.24
    I added 2 cups of bleach per my handy iPhone Pool Calc and am very confident all is well.
    FYI, my FC goal is 12 with a CYA of 90. Seems very stable at that level.
    My PH was adjusted by added Baking Soda two days ago to get TA up. The PH was 7.4 yesterday and drifted up to 7.5 today. I suspect that's normal after added quite a bit of stuff to the pool, so I'll keep a close eye on it.

    Thanks again all, this forum is a godsend.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    16K Gallon, Rectangular, All Tile Surface, 14'X24'X5'
    1/2HP pump, Sand Filter
    FAS-DPD K-2006
    Year-Round Use!

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    Re: Seeking Advice - Starting out fresh with a FAS-DPD Complete

    Nice! All tile pools look great.

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