DIY Pool Project

[mas985]

That is the setup that I would go with as several have mentioned, it is a real nice feature to have. You may or may not need 100% on the vacuum. It depends on several factors but as long as you have the valves, you can set it to what you want. I have my vacuum on an automatic valve but it is not on a timer. I like just setting it manually when I need to because if the vacuum port is closed and the valve is turned on, it might starve the pump. Also, the auto valve can be cammed so that you can set it to the same point each time.

As for the skimmer float, they never seem to work very well for me. I tried one once to see if it would actually seal well and it didn't even with a little pool lube. It let in a lot of air so the pump lost prime.

 

[n8huntsman]

Ok. Got my diagram done. I'd like to avoid using a third pump dedicated to the jets. Trying to keep it simple. The only benefit that I would actually like from that is that the spa will heat quicker. What I was thinking is to put a three way valve on the backside of the stacked stone raised bond beam, out of sight. The valve will select between the return coming from the floor vs. the jets. Floor for while I'm heating, jets for once we get in. Anything wrong with that idea? Also, here is my layout. How does the location of the skimmer, return lines, drains, and lights look? Any suggestions there?[attachment=0:26afytt9]plumbing.jpg[/attachment:26afytt9]

 

[polyvue]

Is there just one skimmer for this 29x28' pool? I'm sure that installing only one skimmer is workable -- (some pools lack a main drain and/or have just a single return) but if you have trees or flowering plants in the vicinity (in a neighbor's yard, e.g.), you will appreciate another skimmer's work in removing floating debris before it sinks and enabling you to change the skimmer basket(s) less often.

That was one of a number of missed opportunities I documented after my pool build.

 

[Guest]

Ok. Got my diagram done. I'd like to avoid using a third pump dedicated to the jets. Trying to keep it simple. The only benefit that I would actually like from that is that the spa will heat quicker. What I was thinking is to put a three way valve on the backside of the stacked stone raised bond beam, out of sight. The valve will select between the return coming from the floor vs. the jets. Floor for while I'm heating, jets for once we get in. Anything wrong with that idea? Also, here is my layout. How does the location of the skimmer, return lines, drains, and lights look? Any suggestions there?[attachment=0:13v6z50j]plumbing.jpg[/attachment:13v6z50j]

I'll say it in public so that it is "on record": Don't cheap out on the third pump for this pool!!! You WILL regret it in the end and you will not be able to do anything about it. You are talking a little bit of extra pipe, since you already have the pump. If you do it right now, it will be done and you can enjoy the pool with no regrets from then on. In addition, a 3 way valve hidden out of sight will be a pain in the butt and you will get tired of going to turn it.

I think you are way over-thinking the main drain/vacuum issue. Put in an overflow line for when the pool water gets a little high (how often is that in S. California?!) that will hook in to your landscape drain. Rent a pump when you need to drain (shame on you for wasting all that water!!) the pool. Plumb the main drains (which are an outdated way to keep pool floors clean since the creation of pool cleaners, or "moving main drains") to the front of the skimmer and the pump to the back of the skimmer (that is why there are 2 holes on the bottom of the skimmer). Run a dedicated 1 1/2" line from the middle of the pool back to the equipment pad and put a 3 way valve on that to control the skimmer versus the cleaner (you can put all of the suction to either one, or split it, that way). 4 main drains in the bottom of the pool is silly, especially if the thought process is for draining the pool (every 2 to 3 years, most likely).

Quick (and easy) review: Circulation pump to circulate and clean/heat water efficiently. Water feature pump to run water feature anytime, if you are in the pool mode or spa mode. Jet pump to run the jets when you want jets, and the ability to turn them off when you don't. All of this controlled easily by your controller, from a spa side remote, in any configuration. No need to get up and turn hidden valves or apologize for the inability to run the water feature/turn off the jets/get out of the spa to make a change!

One last suggestion: Move the light(s) so that they shine away from the house. The way you have it now has you swimming from end to end into the "train" coming out of the tunnel! If you have them pointing away from the house, you will illuminate the pool nicely and not have to swim in to the blinding light at night, if you night swim (and you will!).

Good luck!

 

[bk406]

draining the pool (every 2 to 3 years, most likely).

Whats the purpose of draining the pool water every 2-3 years?

 

[Guest]

In our area, calcium hardness. Pool water likes to be somewhere between 200-400 ppm of calcium hardness. Since our water starts out about there, and we evaporate and drag water out of the pool pretty rapidly, we add water, therefore adding hardness. Once your hardness levels get too high, it starts to cause scale on your tile, plaster, equipment, etc. and causes damage. The only way (that I can talk bout here!) to lower those values is to drain the pool and introduce new water, which has lower harness levels. In this area, that is about every 2-3 years.

 

[bk406]

I understand the partial drain to lower CYA levels and calcium levels. I thought your post implied a full drain and refill.

 

[n8huntsman]

Plumb the main drains (which are an outdated way to keep pool floors clean since the creation of pool cleaners, or "moving main drains") to the front of the skimmer and the pump to the back of the skimmer (that is why there are 2 holes on the bottom of the skimmer). Run a dedicated 1 1/2" line from the middle of the pool back to the equipment pad and put a 3 way valve on that to control the skimmer versus the cleaner (you can put all of the suction to either one, or split it, that way). 4 main drains in the bottom of the pool is silly, especially if the thought process is for draining the pool (every 2 to 3 years, most likely).

Simi, I completely agree with you that I can run the drains from the skimmer. But if I understood correctly, those above were saying not to do that? Most pools I've looked at, have them tied together and work fine. I don't mind having to rent a pump to drain the pool. Not a big deal. I understand there is more than one way and everyone has there own preference so I'll just have to make up my mind.

On the vacuum issue, the reason I didn't have it in the middle, near the bar stools, is that I was afraid the hose would get tangled around the bar stools. It's only 28' long so it should still reach if I have it at the end where it is in the diagram, correct?

Onto the drains..., my understanding was that I have to have two per suction line to prevent entrapment but now I can't find the source for that. So one main drain with a sump and hydrostatic valve. Then one regular suction outlet (no sump) for the water feature suction. And that will pass code?

And finally, the lights. I want them on the side pointing away from the house, but was afraid the bar stools would be in the way or cause large shadows. Since I'm going with the Savi Led lights that are small and fit in a standard reutrn fitting, do you think I can put them on the bar stools themselves?

And nobody comented on the return line and skimmer location, so I assume they look good!

Thanks for everyones help.

 

[Guest]

Plumb the main drains (which are an outdated way to keep pool floors clean since the creation of pool cleaners, or "moving main drains") to the front of the skimmer and the pump to the back of the skimmer (that is why there are 2 holes on the bottom of the skimmer). Run a dedicated 1 1/2" line from the middle of the pool back to the equipment pad and put a 3 way valve on that to control the skimmer versus the cleaner (you can put all of the suction to either one, or split it, that way). 4 main drains in the bottom of the pool is silly, especially if the thought process is for draining the pool (every 2 to 3 years, most likely).

On the vacuum issue, the reason I didn't have it in the middle, near the bar stools, is that I was afraid the hose would get tangled around the bar stools. It's only 28' long so it should still reach if I have it at the end where it is in the diagram, correct?

Yup, it will reach from end to end, you'll just have 30' plus of hose in the pool (and it will still get caught up in the bars stools!) That is a lot of hose in the pool.

Onto the drains..., my understanding was that I have to have two per suction line to prevent entrapment but now I can't find the source for that. So one main drain with a sump and hydrostatic valve. Then one regular suction outlet (no sump) for the water feature suction. And that will pass code?

Yes, split main drains are code. Two in the floor (again, not required) will need to be split, and the ones for the water feature as well, although those are typically put in the wall of the pool, not on the floor. 36" minimum separation, and a sump 1 1/2 times the pipe diameter in depth.

And finally, the lights. I want them on the side pointing away from the house, but was afraid the bar stools would be in the way or cause large shadows. Since I'm going with the Savi Led lights that are small and fit in a standard reutrn fitting, do you think I can put them on the bar stools themselves?

I wouldn't put them in a bar stool. Rule of thumb is no more than 4 sweeps for electrical, and it would be difficult to get those run back if they were in a bar stool. I don't think it would work out for depth either, as bar stools are typically 12" to 18" in diameter. If you think you will use th ebar stools a lot, then put them in. But, they are a pain to clean around and take up space, so keep that in mind as well. I just don't like swimming into lights, so that is why I commented on that area.

And nobody comented on the return line and skimmer location, so I assume they look good!

The return lines should all be plumbed at a 90 degree angle to the pool wall, roughly 18" below water and with 1 1/2" pipe so that you can put directional eye ball fittings on them. The one in the step area should not be in the top step! I would try and move that over somewhere else so that is at a better elevation.

 

[n8huntsman]

Future home of the pool. Got the concrete cut and the palm tree moved about 3 feet to the right to make way for the plumbing. I was gonna rent a saw but ended up just buying that used one for $300. Should I include that in the cost list? Weather pending, the digger will be coming next week to remove the grey concrete, the thin strip of colored concrete and dig the hole. Can I do all the plumbing prior to the rebar or does some of it need to be done after the rebar?
[attachment=0:32xqku1p]SAM_0107.JPG[/attachment:32xqku1p]

 

[Guest]

Do your plumbing (and trenching!) after the rebar or the guys will hate you! Remember they have to get the rebar to the hole and work, and walking around/over/through trenches and plumbing don't make them real happy!

 

[Titanpoolman]

Hi and your project is looking good so far. I have a few comments that may help you out a bit. As far as the plumbing goes i would plumb the main drains and skimmer prior to steel and leave the lines capped and stubbed outside the pool shell perimeter. Set the skimmer and plumb in leaving the lines stubbed outside the shell. Have pieces of 1.5" PVC about 2' long handy when the Gunite crew shows up and have then shoot them into the shell in the locations you want. The same with the skimmer, have them shoot it in. This eliminates leaks around the skimmer and return pipes. Then once the shell is shot then plum the pool. A couple things to help out are using Paramount's SDX drains as they don't require a sump and using a 3" trunk line on the drains.

If you have any questions about my suggestions please let me know.

Have fun..

 

[n8huntsman]

Hope you guys aren't getting tired of me asking the same questions over and over, I just wanna make sure I get this right. It's the most critical step as far as I'm concerned. After the plumbing the rest of the stuff will be a breeze for me. Here is my updated plumbing schematic. Against some peoples advise, I'm going with one pump for filtration and jets and a second pump for the 3 - 24" waterfalls. This will work fine for me. I just need to get an okay on my line sizes, return, skimmer, drain, waterfall suction returns, jet air line, and light placement. Havn't decided for sure on the bar stool location yet so I have them shown in a couple places.[attachment=0:2ajvbfre]PLUMBING.JPG[/attachment:2ajvbfre]

 

[mas985]

2" pipe is a bit small for the waterfalls. Depending on the look you are after, you might require fairly high flow rates. For example, if you want 1/2" thick waterfall, you need 120 GPM which is way too high for 2" pipe and probably not achievable. GPM is apprioximately:

3.33 * Waterfall length (inches) * Waterfall thickness (inches) = 3.333 * 72" * 1/2" = 120 GPM

2" pipe would be ok for a 1/4" waterfall without a lot of splash.

What size pump were you planning on?

 

[n8huntsman]

What size pump were you planning on?

It's a nexxus Oasis waterfall. I think the opening is 1/8" per this drawing;
http://www.nexxuslighting.com/pool/prod ... oducts.pdf

I have two sta-rite pumps; a max e-glass 1 hp and a dyna-glass 1.5 hp. I was planning on using the 1 hp, but am not apposed to the 1.5 hp. I read that the falls required 10 gpm per linear feet of waterfall, which would be 60 gpm in my case. I did the calcs and since the plumbing is not going through the filter or heater, it seems that I have a lack of head, even with the two feet of static head from the bond beam. I was worried that if I went with 2.5" pipe I'd be running too far to the right of the curve and might not prime or even cavitate and eventually destroy the pump. Especially with the little plastic impellers. I've seen cavitation eat right through alloy-20 monel impellers, I can only imagine what it would do to the plastic ones. But it's possible I screwed up the head calcs. How much head to you think will be created with that short run and minimal elbows, a ball valve at each waterfall to balance them, a rock trap at each and one of those lettle Jandy filters for waterfalls?

 

[mas985]

Those waterfalls don't need much in the way of flow rate so I'm going to do a 180 here. With a full rated MaxEGlass, you will likely get well more than 60 GPM even on 2" plumbing so you might want to have a valve so that you can control the flow rate. Even the 1 HP uprated will probably give you more than 60. I estimate about 85 GPM for the full rated and 73 GPM for the uprated. You might even be able to get away with 1 1/2" pipe but the 2" with a valve is safer.

 

[n8huntsman]

A crew will be at my house for the next two days ripping out the old concrete and digging the pool. I set up a live stream for me to watch while I'm at work. You guys are welcome to check it out;
mms://mypool.no-ip.info (This will open in windows media)

 

[duraleigh]

n8,

Can we get a speaker set up so we can yell at them to "Get back to work!!"?

 

[n8huntsman]

LIVE STREAM OF DIG *LIVE NOW*

They went to home depot to get some plywood to avoid cracking my concrete. I had audio on but turned it off in an effort to use less bandwidth at work, but it turns out, our firewall wont allow mms:// streams at work anyways. My phone wont decode the video so I have to remote desktop into my desktop via my phone to view. Kinda lame but it works.

 

[n8huntsman]

Guess I should post some before pics before I post the destruction that was today...