Delta UV system - potential purchase and install?

[markdude]

Hello, I am new to this forum, I didnt even know this forum existed. I should have been here long ago . I moved in a home in Saskatchewan, Canada two years ago with a pool, and we love it. Its a 100,000 litre pool (18 x 36). We are currently using a chlorinator and I want to change it up. I was going to go towards a salt water system, but was advised that a UV system would probably be the safest bet (to work along with the chlorinator, at reduced levels). Every review I read online seems to be from 3-5 years ago, which doesnt help me as technologies have changed, and perhaps the UV is the way to go. I am really curious with what people here think and recommend. My main goal is to go to something that will require less maintenance, and the water wont turn foggy after a few days if the chlorinator isnt working properly. I would appreciate your feedback! thanks.

 

[Donldson]

Welcome to TFP markdude!

Unfortunately you were advised poorly. UV is nothing new, there are plenty of options on the market that claim to reduce chlorine use. Long story short, no it will not. A UV system is not helpful in an outdoor residential pool. The places a UV system is helpful is an indoor pool that does not get sunlight or a public pool with a high bather load. In a normal residential outdoor pool UV will rarely decrease chlorine use and can possibly increase it.

The best way to reduce maintenance, cost, and eliminate algae growth is to follow the TFPC method of pool care. By accurately testing with a proper kit and maintaining your FC according to the FC/CYA chart you will not have algae problems nor need any costly extras like algaecide, phosphate reducers, or UV systems.

 

[JVTrain]

If you want automated chlorination your options are either a salt water chlorinating system or a liquid chlorine dispenser/stenner pump set up. The tablet chlorinators are not ideal for long term usage. Each tablet raises your CYA (stabilizer) and eventually there will be too much stabilizer and you won't be able to maintain proper FC levels. See the CYA/Chlorine chart in my signature.

There's lot of information in Pool School here, start with ABCs of Pool Water Chemistry.

 

[domct203]

Hello, I am new to this forum, I didnt even know this forum existed. I should have been here long ago . I moved in a home in Saskatchewan, Canada two years ago with a pool, and we love it. Its a 100,000 litre pool (18 x 36). We are currently using a chlorinator and I want to change it up. I was going to go towards a salt water system, but was advised that a UV system would probably be the safest bet (to work along with the chlorinator, at reduced levels). Every review I read online seems to be from 3-5 years ago, which doesnt help me as technologies have changed, and perhaps the UV is the way to go. I am really curious with what people here think and recommend. My main goal is to go to something that will require less maintenance, and the water wont turn foggy after a few days if the chlorinator isnt working properly. I would appreciate your feedback! thanks.

Welcome to the forum.

If your chlorinator isn't working properly UV is not going to stop the water from "turning foggy".

Is your current chlorinator one that uses tablets?

As mentioned a UV system is unnecessary for an outdoor pool, and somewhat redundant if the pool is in the sun (natural UV).

What was the concern over using a SWG?

Dom

 

[Isaac-1]

What they all said, the question of UV systems comes up here about once a week, sometimes more often, and the answer is always the same, they have a place, but that place is almost never in a residential outdoor pool. For the typical residential outdoor pool where there is plenty of natural UV they are a complete waste of money and if you have a well balanced pool they will actually increase your chlorine useage as UV breaks down chlorine. This is not to say their claim of reduced chlorine is a lie, but instead it is a half truth, and only applies in an out of balance pool that has stuff growing in it as UV helps kill the stuff that is growing, by contrast our method here is to always have a balanced pool where there is nothing growing, and if their is nothing growing there is nothing for the UV to kill.

 

[markdude]

Welcome to the forum.

If your chlorinator isn't working properly UV is not going to stop the water from "turning foggy".

Is your current chlorinator one that uses tablets?

As mentioned a UV system is unnecessary for an outdoor pool, and somewhat redundant if the pool is in the sun (natural UV).

What was the concern over using a SWG?

Dom

Thanks everyone for the quick feedback, I appreciate it!

I will make a few notes…

I have a feeling my chlorinator may be plugged so once I close the pool in a few weeks for the winter, I will take it out and try and have it cleaned. It sounds like the chlorine pucks I have been using, may have not been the best and been one of the causes for the plugging.

The guy that was trying to have me consider the UV system, suggested the following concerns about salt water…

- We currently have a sand filter, and he didn’t think the salt water system would work well with that, due to the backwashing required and the loss of the salt water at that time. So then he suggested a cartridge filter instead of the sand filter which is another $1000.
- He estimated replacing the salt water cell every 5 years at approximately $600 vs a UV bulb every 3 years at $200.
- If your salt content in the pool becomes too much, the only way to dispose of that is to drain the pool and fill back up. Not sure how often this would actually happen but perhaps it is a concern.
- I currently use a boiler to heat the water for the pool and the heat for my home. I use a heat exchanger with it. I questioned potential rusting having the salt water run through the exchanger and boiler and he said that could be a concern.

Wouldn’t the UV system be a much more potent UV than I could ever get from the direct sunlight?

 

[BuckeyeChris]

So if you have too much salt you need to drain, but don't get a sand system because your salt could get too low. That is talking out of both sides of his mouth. The cost to raise your salt level up is small. Plenty of people here have sand and salt cell systems.

 

[domct203]

As far as backwashing effecting salt levels it's going to take a very long time to dilute that salt level if your filter is sized correctly and you only backwash at 25% over clean pressure.

The only way your salt level should rise is if you add salt.

The heat exchanger is a valid concern, but the salt levels are very low in a SWG pool.

Have you considered a liquid chlorine injection system?

Dom

 

[jagger2005]

I have salt and sand. No issue. Biggest drawback I have is I have to be careful when I backwash because the grass does not like a lot of salt. I do not have a heater so I cannot respond to any concerns there


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[tim5055]

Thanks everyone for the quick feedback, I appreciate it!

I will make a few notes…

I have a feeling my chlorinator may be plugged so once I close the pool in a few weeks for the winter, I will take it out and try and have it cleaned. It sounds like the chlorine pucks I have been using, may have not been the best and been one of the causes for the plugging.

The guy that was trying to have me consider the UV system, suggested the following concerns about salt water…

- We currently have a sand filter, and he didn’t think the salt water system would work well with that, due to the backwashing required and the loss of the salt water at that time. So then he suggested a cartridge filter instead of the sand filter which is another $1000.
- He estimated replacing the salt water cell every 5 years at approximately $600 vs a UV bulb every 3 years at $200.
- If your salt content in the pool becomes too much, the only way to dispose of that is to drain the pool and fill back up. Not sure how often this would actually happen but perhaps it is a concern.
- I currently use a boiler to heat the water for the pool and the heat for my home. I use a heat exchanger with it. I questioned potential rusting having the salt water run through the exchanger and boiler and he said that could be a concern.

Wouldn’t the UV system be a much more potent UV than I could ever get from the direct sunlight?

You are dealing with a salesman, plain and simple - he is trying to sell you things you don't need.

You are not going to loose sufficient salt to a few backwashes to amount to much money at all.

He is correct about the replacemnt salt cell, but comparing it to a UV bulb that really does no good in an outdoor residential pool is useless information.

How is your salt content going to get to be too much? You loose salt not create it. A Salt Water Chlorine Generator is basically a closed system, you add a specific amount of salt to the water to get the concentration your SWCG needs. At that point you turn it on and val a chemical process it takes salt from the water and creates chlorine. The nice thing is that when chlorine is sanitizing/oxidizing the bad stuff in your water it's byproduct is the salt, so it goes back into solution and the cycle continues. n If you have an active pool (kids, friends, dogs ect) you will loose more salt to people carrying it out of the pool in their swimsuit than to the backwashes. But, even that is an insignificant amount.

The issue of corrosion in a heater is worse for incorrect pH rather than salt pools. There is a heat exchanger, so the salt pool water will never be in your boiler.

No, you don't want UV in an outdoor residential pool. It almost sounds like you have made up your mind and are looking for reasons to go with it.

 

[Donldson]

I am first going to ask if the person pushing UV is the same one trying to sell it? If so, while I won't knock someone for talking up their product, I do remind you to consider the source.

First he tells you that you need to switch to a cartridge filter to avoid losing salt through backwashing, and then he tells you that your salt content could become too high and you might need to replace some water. Well which is it, seems to me his arguments are cancelling each other out. Many people on this site have sand filters and SWG systems and get along just fine. One key is to not backwash unless you need to, in fact sand filters work better the less you backwash to a point.

His cost example is not very good. A UV system is still only a supplement to chlorine, a salt system creates chlorine. His UV system cost does not consider the fact that you must still buy chlorine. An SWG system typically comes out cost neutral as it produces enough chlorine to pay for itself over the life of the cell.

Finally, a UV cell would be more concentrated than sunlight, but that just doesn't matter. A residential pool just needs enough UV to burn off CC that form after chlorine is used. Sunlight is more than enough for that purpose.

 

[JVTrain]

UV lamps are stronger than the sun in pure localized intensity of the light but your sun gets much more in UV rays from the sun than it will get from the lamp. UV lamp systems can be effective at killing bacteria and other pathogens but in order for them to do so, the water containing that pathogen must pass directly in front of the lamp and be in front of the lamp for a sufficient duration. The biggest problem is getting it to pass in front of the lamp. Even if you run your pump 24 hours a day, not every gallon of water in your pool will pass by the lamp. Even in several days, you might not get every gallon to pass through the lamp. Not a very good situation for trying to sanitize a large volume of water.

Chlorine is everywhere in the pool. With good circulation, as little as 4 hours of run time per day, all of your pool water has free chlorine in the pool. Algae, bacteria and other pathogens are constantly exposed to it and constantly being killed. All by itself, adequate FC levels for a given CYA level provides all the sanitation you need.

UV light is useful in indoor pools because UV light is helpful at breaking down combined chlorine, the by products of free chlorine when it reacts and oxidizes organics (bather waste). Indoor pools don't get UV light from the sun to help break down these combined chlorine molecules. CC is the chlorine that makes your eyes sting, nose burn and skin itch. The bad kind of chlorine. Poorly managed pools that are allowed to have residual CC levels give chlorine sanitation a bad name.

 

[markdude]

You are dealing with a salesman, plain and simple - he is trying to sell you things you don't need.

You are not going to loose sufficient salt to a few backwashes to amount to much money at all.

He is correct about the replacemnt salt cell, but comparing it to a UV bulb that really does no good in an outdoor residential pool is useless information.

How is your salt content going to get to be too much? You loose salt not create it. A Salt Water Chlorine Generator is basically a closed system, you add a specific amount of salt to the water to get the concentration your SWCG needs. At that point you turn it on and val a chemical process it takes salt from the water and creates chlorine. The nice thing is that when chlorine is sanitizing/oxidizing the bad stuff in your water it's byproduct is the salt, so it goes back into solution and the cycle continues. n If you have an active pool (kids, friends, dogs ect) you will loose more salt to people carrying it out of the pool in their swimsuit than to the backwashes. But, even that is an insignificant amount.

The issue of corrosion in a heater is worse for incorrect pH rather than salt pools. There is a heat exchanger, so the salt pool water will never be in your boiler.

No, you don't want UV in an outdoor residential pool. It almost sounds like you have made up your mind and are looking for reasons to go with it.

I certainly have not made my mind, and all this information is sure leaning me back towards the salt system that I was originally looking at. The salesman that was selling me on the UV was the same guy I would have bought the salt chlorinator through, so I didnt think there was much financial gain on his part (unless of course i upgraded the filter which I wouldnt do).

if I went with a salt water chlorinator, I would probably get the Aquarite AQR-CUL. Is there much for reviews on this unit?

Does anyone know how much concern there is with running salt water through a heat exchanger?

 

[DaninFLA]

Thanks everyone for the quick feedback, I appreciate it!

I will make a few notes…

I have a feeling my chlorinator may be plugged so once I close the pool in a few weeks for the winter, I will take it out and try and have it cleaned. It sounds like the chlorine pucks I have been using, may have not been the best and been one of the causes for the plugging.

The guy that was trying to have me consider the UV system, suggested the following concerns about salt water…

- We currently have a sand filter, and he didn’t think the salt water system would work well with that, due to the backwashing required and the loss of the salt water at that time. So then he suggested a cartridge filter instead of the sand filter which is another $1000.
- He estimated replacing the salt water cell every 5 years at approximately $600 vs a UV bulb every 3 years at $200.
- If your salt content in the pool becomes too much, the only way to dispose of that is to drain the pool and fill back up. Not sure how often this would actually happen but perhaps it is a concern.
- I currently use a boiler to heat the water for the pool and the heat for my home. I use a heat exchanger with it. I questioned potential rusting having the salt water run through the exchanger and boiler and he said that could be a concern.

Wouldn’t the UV system be a much more potent UV than I could ever get from the direct sunlight?

a 40 lb bag of salt only costs about $5, so backwashing isn't really a big concern. you don't do it that often with a clean pool and its not that much water. at worst you might be adding in $10 of salt to compensate.

replacement Saltwater cells are not $600 and they take 2 minutes to replaces. you can buy them for $300-400 depending on the size.

$1000 upcharge for cartridge filter is high. if you have a sand filter, it will work fine. no issue there.

salt content in the pool will not increase, it may decrease but unless you are adding more in for no reason it will never increase.

no issues with the heater and the salt water, no issues at all. pool salt water is 1/10th the salinity of ocean water.

sorry, but your pool guy doenst seem to have a whole lot of good info. UV as others have said is a complete waste of money.

 

[ping]

All the others have chimed in with some good info for you, but I'm going to lead you to an article that will get you informed on the chemistry of pools, ABC's of Pool Water Chemistry.

No system is going to keep your pool perfect without attention and detail to it.

 

[DaninFLA]

if I went with a salt water chlorinator, I would probably get the Aquarite AQR-CUL. Is there much for reviews on this unit?

Does anyone know how much concern there is with running salt water through a heat exchanger?

if you go with Hayward, just get the Goldline version, there really is no point in getting an upgraded controller. they all use the same cell and its just a matter of controlling the % output, so no benefit in upgrading. the Goldline with the T-15 cell runs $900 shipped to your house. you should not pay any more than $1,500 for it installed. if he is saying more, than just buy it directly and hire and electrician to do the install. the plumbing part is very simple as well, just some pieces of PVC. easily done your self, or pay a plumber for an hour of labor to do it.

no issue at all with running the heater with the saltwater pool. bigger concern with the heater is improper/low pH. the salt water is 1/10th as salty as ocean water. no worries.

how big is your pool? make sure you buy the biggest salt cell they offer, never go smaller.

 

[tim5055]

I certainly have not made my mind, and all this information is sure leaning me back towards the salt system that I was originally looking at. The salesman that was selling me on the UV was the same guy I would have bought the salt chlorinator through, so I didnt think there was much financial gain on his part (unless of course i upgraded the filter which I wouldnt do).

if I went with a salt water chlorinator, I would probably get the Aquarite AQR-CUL. Is there much for reviews on this unit?

Does anyone know how much concern there is with running salt water through a heat exchanger?

There shouldn't be a concern as all the piping is copper, which like I said gets more damage from bad pH levels than from the salt pool.

A full description of your pool (in your signature helps) with a couple of photos of the equipment pad may be of help to those making recommendations. To be honest, none of this is beyond the skills of a basic home handyman.

 

[markdude]

Thanks for the suggestion, I have included a picture of the pool and the pool specs in my signature. In case it doesnt come through, its a 100,000 litre pool and 18' x 36', deepest point is 8'. Based on all the feedback, it sounds like the UV system is not the way to go. Thanks everyone for all the advice, I appreciate it. I will most likely pursue the original idea of the salt water route and most likely go with the Hayward Aqua rite.

 

[jagger2005]

Nice pool!


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[tim5055]

Very nice pool. It totally destroys my poorly preconceived notions that anything north of the border is white and desolate.