I have been lurking and learning on here for a while and really appreciate all the helpful info people post. I have an old pool, built around 1960, mostly original condition. Plaster is in bad shape, concrete coping and deck are serviceable but not attractive, original plumbing is copper, and skimmer is leaking. I have been procrastinating on a remodel for several years, but now may finally be the time to do it.
A large part of what has held me back is the cost of tearing out and replacing the concrete deck. The old one is poured in 5 foot square sections with wood dividers. Old, rough, and gray, it is not very attractive but the wood dividers have kept it from cracking and it looks pretty serviceable structurally. One idea I have had is to keep the old deck in place, but lay travertine in a sand bed on top of it. In order to line up the new level of the pool deck with the pool coping, the PB says they can raise the bond beam to match it. Only need to raise the deck level by about 2 inches total, and they can achieve some of that on the bond beam/ coping end by replacing my 1.25 inch concrete coping with 2 inch travertine.
I have two major concerns here:
1. Is sand set travertine over an old concrete base a good long term solution? Edges will be mortared down. I live in Northern California where we don't get hard freezes.
2. Potential problems with raising the bond beam 2 inches to accommodate the travertine overlay on the decking? I have copied a redacted estimate for the work below. PB is saying they will use rebar. How much rebar can you get in two inches of height? PB is one of the major gunite contractors in my area and I generally trust their expertise. Any specs I should write into contract regarding rebar, bonding agent to ensure cold joint concrete on top of existing bond beam doesn't separate, etc? Anything to watch out for?
I have copied redacted estimate below. Labor costs are very high around here compared to most of the country, but even so, $10 a square foot for labor to lay travertine in sand on top of the existing concrete sounds high to me. Appreciate any thoughts anyone wants to contribute, especially on the two questions above.
Here is estimate:
BASE POOL REMODEL: all taxes, labor, materials, dumpfees are included
Drain pool to 6" clean out on the right side of the house
Drill holes to relieve any underground hyrallic pressure Included
Prep: Strip plaster layer/s to gunite, at least 80% of theoriginal layer
of plaster will be removed
Remove Skimmer
Remove Tile & Coping $ 2,550.00
Plumbing: Pressure Test all plumbing, no repairs to other linesincluded
Remove and replace skimmer with Waterways Renegade Skimmer,
patch deck with common cement
Convert re-fill line from over the deck style to under coping, ifneeded
install anti-syphon valve where the feed is per code $ 2,150.00
Light: Remove as necessary diving board to saw cut concrete
from the coping to the rear of the concrete as needed to removethe
light conduit and extend to a moden to code Junction Box. JunctionBox
will be directly behind light at the end of the concrete and be@8"
above grade.
Install new light niche, ground niche to code, steel, and concreteback
into place.
Install Pentair 5G colorwheel light
Existing light switch remains as is, GFI system to code
Repair concrete with common cement $ 3,595.00
Coping: Replace coping with Bedrosian's Brand 3 cm 12" x24" bullnose
grout color to be selected, cut travertine as needed to go wherethe
radiuses are. These will be cut in trapezoidal shapes. $ 3,475.00
Tile: Replace 6" waterline tile with Standard Tile Selectionsto $8.00 per
sq. ft., grout color to be determined $ 2,275.00
Mastic: Tan Sanded Mastic $ 595.00
Plaster: Traditional White Plaster, 3 year warranty $ 2,995.00
Mechanical Start-up and up to 5 days brushing and chemicals $350.00
TOTAL BASE POOL REMODEL PRICE: $ 1 7,985.00
OPTIONS: ADD TO THE ABOVE BASE POOL REMODEL PRICE, DONOT SUBTRACT OR
SUBSTITUTE FROM ABOVE
IF YOU DECIDE TO STUB THE PLUMBING AND REDO THE DECKSIN
LATER, PLUMBING WILL BE CAPPED BEHIND POOL AND BEUNUSABLE
UNTIL HOOKED INTO EQUIPMENT
Saw cut 4 areas on the deck for three returns, and sweep line
Drill pool wall in 4 areas for new 1 1/2" lines
Patch concrete $ 1,350.00
IF YOU WANT TO PROPERLY REPIPE POOL AND TRAVERTINE
OVER EXISTING CONCRETE:
Drill 4 holes into pool
saw cut concrete for each of the 4 returns, and suctions, take topad
plumb 1 1/2" returns to 2" return to equipment
plumb new 2" suction from skimmer and from vacuum line forsplit suction
plumb 1 1/2" sweep line to equipment
saw cut equipment pad to reduce size of pad, haul heater torecycle
replumb inside the room, keeping plumbing on the left side
patch concrete with common cement $ 1,950.00
three port valve for split suction (required for repipe) $ 150.00
Put Electric line underground from bush to equipment $ 995.00
Remove gas line that is above ground, done with thecomplete
repipe Nocharge
PREPARE POOL TO HAVE TRAVERTINE SET IN SAND OVER THE
EXISTING CONCRETE DECK (by us or by others)
Raise pool up to 2" as needed, core drill into beam, addsteel and
concrete $ 1,650.00
Raise Skimmer No charge
Use 5 cm Travertine $ 650.00
Saw Cut and remove diving board stands $ 100.00
(owner to purchase another board and will set jig in concreterepair for light)
Contractor to Set owner's Travertine on a sand baseover the
existing concrete, Sand and labor only
up to 1,200 sq. ft. $ 12,000.00
Equipment:
Pentair 420 sq. ft. Clean and Clear Plus Filter $ 995.00
bond pool equipment to code (bond wire will originate from poolsteel)
reset owner's pumps on equipment $ 595.00
Convert ladder to grabrails and wall steps
patch concrete with common cement $ 795.00
WET EDGE INTERIOR FINISHES STANDARD COLORS add to plaster:
Luna Quartz 10 year warranty $ 2,795.00
Pearl Martrix or Ca. Beach 15 year warranty $ 3,395.00
Satin Matrix 15 year warranty $ 3,750.00
Primera Stone 15 year warranty $ 3,999.00
Prism Matrix15 year warranty $ 4,375.00
Thanks,
Prehistoric Pool
A large part of what has held me back is the cost of tearing out and replacing the concrete deck. The old one is poured in 5 foot square sections with wood dividers. Old, rough, and gray, it is not very attractive but the wood dividers have kept it from cracking and it looks pretty serviceable structurally. One idea I have had is to keep the old deck in place, but lay travertine in a sand bed on top of it. In order to line up the new level of the pool deck with the pool coping, the PB says they can raise the bond beam to match it. Only need to raise the deck level by about 2 inches total, and they can achieve some of that on the bond beam/ coping end by replacing my 1.25 inch concrete coping with 2 inch travertine.
I have two major concerns here:
1. Is sand set travertine over an old concrete base a good long term solution? Edges will be mortared down. I live in Northern California where we don't get hard freezes.
2. Potential problems with raising the bond beam 2 inches to accommodate the travertine overlay on the decking? I have copied a redacted estimate for the work below. PB is saying they will use rebar. How much rebar can you get in two inches of height? PB is one of the major gunite contractors in my area and I generally trust their expertise. Any specs I should write into contract regarding rebar, bonding agent to ensure cold joint concrete on top of existing bond beam doesn't separate, etc? Anything to watch out for?
I have copied redacted estimate below. Labor costs are very high around here compared to most of the country, but even so, $10 a square foot for labor to lay travertine in sand on top of the existing concrete sounds high to me. Appreciate any thoughts anyone wants to contribute, especially on the two questions above.
Here is estimate:
BASE POOL REMODEL: all taxes, labor, materials, dumpfees are included
Drain pool to 6" clean out on the right side of the house
Drill holes to relieve any underground hyrallic pressure Included
Prep: Strip plaster layer/s to gunite, at least 80% of theoriginal layer
of plaster will be removed
Remove Skimmer
Remove Tile & Coping $ 2,550.00
Plumbing: Pressure Test all plumbing, no repairs to other linesincluded
Remove and replace skimmer with Waterways Renegade Skimmer,
patch deck with common cement
Convert re-fill line from over the deck style to under coping, ifneeded
install anti-syphon valve where the feed is per code $ 2,150.00
Light: Remove as necessary diving board to saw cut concrete
from the coping to the rear of the concrete as needed to removethe
light conduit and extend to a moden to code Junction Box. JunctionBox
will be directly behind light at the end of the concrete and be@8"
above grade.
Install new light niche, ground niche to code, steel, and concreteback
into place.
Install Pentair 5G colorwheel light
Existing light switch remains as is, GFI system to code
Repair concrete with common cement $ 3,595.00
Coping: Replace coping with Bedrosian's Brand 3 cm 12" x24" bullnose
grout color to be selected, cut travertine as needed to go wherethe
radiuses are. These will be cut in trapezoidal shapes. $ 3,475.00
Tile: Replace 6" waterline tile with Standard Tile Selectionsto $8.00 per
sq. ft., grout color to be determined $ 2,275.00
Mastic: Tan Sanded Mastic $ 595.00
Plaster: Traditional White Plaster, 3 year warranty $ 2,995.00
Mechanical Start-up and up to 5 days brushing and chemicals $350.00
TOTAL BASE POOL REMODEL PRICE: $ 1 7,985.00
OPTIONS: ADD TO THE ABOVE BASE POOL REMODEL PRICE, DONOT SUBTRACT OR
SUBSTITUTE FROM ABOVE
IF YOU DECIDE TO STUB THE PLUMBING AND REDO THE DECKSIN
LATER, PLUMBING WILL BE CAPPED BEHIND POOL AND BEUNUSABLE
UNTIL HOOKED INTO EQUIPMENT
Saw cut 4 areas on the deck for three returns, and sweep line
Drill pool wall in 4 areas for new 1 1/2" lines
Patch concrete $ 1,350.00
IF YOU WANT TO PROPERLY REPIPE POOL AND TRAVERTINE
OVER EXISTING CONCRETE:
Drill 4 holes into pool
saw cut concrete for each of the 4 returns, and suctions, take topad
plumb 1 1/2" returns to 2" return to equipment
plumb new 2" suction from skimmer and from vacuum line forsplit suction
plumb 1 1/2" sweep line to equipment
saw cut equipment pad to reduce size of pad, haul heater torecycle
replumb inside the room, keeping plumbing on the left side
patch concrete with common cement $ 1,950.00
three port valve for split suction (required for repipe) $ 150.00
Put Electric line underground from bush to equipment $ 995.00
Remove gas line that is above ground, done with thecomplete
repipe Nocharge
PREPARE POOL TO HAVE TRAVERTINE SET IN SAND OVER THE
EXISTING CONCRETE DECK (by us or by others)
Raise pool up to 2" as needed, core drill into beam, addsteel and
concrete $ 1,650.00
Raise Skimmer No charge
Use 5 cm Travertine $ 650.00
Saw Cut and remove diving board stands $ 100.00
(owner to purchase another board and will set jig in concreterepair for light)
Contractor to Set owner's Travertine on a sand baseover the
existing concrete, Sand and labor only
up to 1,200 sq. ft. $ 12,000.00
Equipment:
Pentair 420 sq. ft. Clean and Clear Plus Filter $ 995.00
bond pool equipment to code (bond wire will originate from poolsteel)
reset owner's pumps on equipment $ 595.00
Convert ladder to grabrails and wall steps
patch concrete with common cement $ 795.00
WET EDGE INTERIOR FINISHES STANDARD COLORS add to plaster:
Luna Quartz 10 year warranty $ 2,795.00
Pearl Martrix or Ca. Beach 15 year warranty $ 3,395.00
Satin Matrix 15 year warranty $ 3,750.00
Primera Stone 15 year warranty $ 3,999.00
Prism Matrix15 year warranty $ 4,375.00
Thanks,
Prehistoric Pool
or if it is a good idea to do what your PB said. I just wanted to say good luck and share some pics as we love to watch redos!