Houston, TX Pool Build Diary - From Design to Dive-In

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hi platipus -- I'd be intrigued to see your list of questions, because I've found that it is hard to judge the PBs when you just interface with the salesmen. The best salesman with the most expensive bid confessed when pushed that the project manager he would use had only been managing projects for 8 months -- no, thank you! We made an unscheduled stop at the PB we ultimately chose, met the project manager and owner (small company), and she (yes, the project manager is a woman!!!) took us out at that moment to see a pool build underway near us -- that took some confidence and ultimately sold us. We also selected our coping based on that visit, too, ha!

Hope you use mosaic tiles around the planters and the irregularly spaced water feature!!
 
Helen203 said:
hi platipus -- I'd be intrigued to see your list of questions, because I've found that it is hard to judge the PBs when you just interface with the salesmen. The best salesman with the most expensive bid confessed when pushed that the project manager he would use had only been managing projects for 8 months -- no, thank you! We made an unscheduled stop at the PB we ultimately chose, met the project manager and owner (small company), and she (yes, the project manager is a woman!!!) took us out at that moment to see a pool build underway near us -- that took some confidence and ultimately sold us. We also selected our coping based on that visit, too, ha!

Hope you use mosaic tiles around the planters and the irregularly spaced water feature!!
Click to expand...


You asked for it :deal:


Platipus's Patented Pleadings for all Professional Pool Purveyors and Projects

1. Years in business?
2. Who are the owner(s) if not you?
3. Number of employees?
4. What services do you provide directly and what will be sub'd out?
5. Who will be in charge of the job?
6. How often will they be on-site? Is there a backup?
7. Will they be on-site to meet every sub the very first time they show up?
8. Will they do an on-site review at completion of work with every sub before they leave?
9. Are you in the process of selling the business or transitioning any key responsibilities to someone else?
10. Jobs per year last 3 years?
11. Can you provide a copy of your current and valid Contracting License?
12. Do you carry general liability insurance? How much? Will you provide proof of coverage prior to any contract signing?
13. Do you carry workers’ compensation insurance and can you provide proof?
14. How are your subs insured? Can you provide proof?
15. Will you provide a written Lien Releases for yourself and all sub's prior to final payment?
16. Will you include a subcontractor/vendor Proof of Payment clause in the contract?
17. Can you provide a sample contract with your bid submittal?
18. Do you pull all required Building Permits?
19. Will you be present for all inspections?
20. Are you a member of any professional pool builder organizations?
21. What is your BBB Rating? Any recent complaints? Have they been resolved?
22. How is your Credit and/or Dunn & Bradstreet rating?
23. Any lawsuits in the last 5 years?
24. Can you provide references? Can we see their pools in person?
25. Have you done a job with a swim jet similar to what we are looking for?
26. How much work in Kingwood have you done? Anything in Kings Point?
27. Are you familiar with our specific sub-division HOA rules?
28. Who will be representing us to the HOA? Is there any direct involvement that will be needed from us?
29. How many times have you been through Kings Point HOA approval process in the last 3 years?
30. How many other concurrent jobs do you typically run?
31. How do you handle change orders? Will you commit in the contract to following an in-writing change order process?
32. Who will be doing the final plans/drawings?
33. How and when do we meet with them?
34. How many plan/drawing revisions do we get?
35. Can you provide a 3D render? Cost?
36. Will you itemize your bid?
37. Will you work with a contract deadline with a penalty for missing it?
38. Will you let us review your sub-contractor selection?
39. If we have a different vendor or sub we want to use for a specific item like gunite or surface finish, how is that handled?
40. Do you provide a port-a-john during construction?
41. Will you protect the house, windows and patio from all concrete/plaster overspray with plastic sheeting or tarps?
42. How often will you clean-up debris?
43. Will you guarantee that the front yard is always free of trash and debris at the end of the day?
44. Will you do a thorough clean-up at the end of the job, including a magnetic sweep?
45. If wider access is needed through the fence/gate, will you provide temporary fencing?
46. Will you repair any changes the fence to its original condition?
47. Who is responsible for damaged lawn from construction traffic?
48. Will you repair any broken irrigation outside of the dig zone (path leading to jobsite)?
49. Will you repair or replace any broken or damaged existing incidentals such as windows or gutters?
50. Will you repair or replace any broken or damaged new incidentals such as tile, lighting or plumbing & electrical fixtures?
51. Will you repair any broken concrete on sidewalks or driveways that result from construction traffic?
52. Will you handle all utility marking?
53. Who is responsible for the repair costs of any cut or broken service lines (Cable/Phone/Gas/Power)?
54. What hours will subs be on-site? Any weekends?
55. Will you agree to have all sub's completed, cleaned up and off-site by 6pm each Weekday, 5pm on Saturdays and not scheduled for Sundays?
56. Will access to the interior or the house and/or garage be needed? When? To whom?
57. What kind of payment schedule will you be requesting?
58. Will you work with a 5% final payment that is payable upon completion of the punchlist?
59. Are there any situations where you will be asking for earlier payment than what is agreed upon up front?
60. What guaranties and warranties do you provide and for how long?
61. What soil concerns are for our area and is there anything you do to address it?
62. Are there any conditions or issues that could be found as part of the dig that could change the price or impact the project?
63. Do you handle Landscaping as well and/or do you have a Landscaper that you like to work with?
64. What Hardscape/Site Improvements are included as part of the core bid? (ie Grading, Drainage, Pathways, Raised Planting Areas, etc…)
65. Is there any part of the job that you are un-sure of or have reservations about?
66. Is there anything jumping out at you that we could change or do differently as a money saver?
67. Run us through your process/steps:



I developed this list originally for our patio project and it was quite useful so I just tweaked it to fit a pool project as best as I could. A few of of these are specific to our project but they could be of use if just changed to meet your specific needs.


-plat
 
OMG this is awesome!!! Thank you!

husband is inspecting this list closely. One quick addition is an explanation of the payment schedules, which is a big deal. I get that BPs have suffered the "great recession", but many contracts are not protective of the buyer in any way. It is way too easy for a PB to place a lien of us verses the other way.
 
platipus said:
You asked for it :deal:


Platipus's Patented Pleadings for all Professional Pool Purveyors and Projects

1. Years in business?
2. Who are the owner(s) if not you?
3. Number of employees?
4. What services do you provide directly and what will be sub'd out?
5. Who will be in charge of the job?
6. How often will they be on-site? Is there a backup?
7. Will they be on-site to meet every sub the very first time they show up?
8. Will they do an on-site review at completion of work with every sub before they leave?
9. Are you in the process of selling the business or transitioning any key responsibilities to someone else?
10. Jobs per year last 3 years?
11. Can you provide a copy of your current and valid Contracting License?
12. Do you carry general liability insurance? How much? Will you provide proof of coverage prior to any contract signing?
13. Do you carry workers’ compensation insurance and can you provide proof?
14. How are your subs insured? Can you provide proof?
15. Will you provide a written Lien Releases for yourself and all sub's prior to final payment?
16. Will you include a subcontractor/vendor Proof of Payment clause in the contract?
17. Can you provide a sample contract with your bid submittal?
18. Do you pull all required Building Permits?
19. Will you be present for all inspections?
20. Are you a member of any professional pool builder organizations?
21. What is your BBB Rating? Any recent complaints? Have they been resolved?
22. How is your Credit and/or Dunn & Bradstreet rating?
23. Any lawsuits in the last 5 years?
24. Can you provide references? Can we see their pools in person?
25. Have you done a job with a swim jet similar to what we are looking for?
26. How much work in Kingwood have you done? Anything in Kings Point?
27. Are you familiar with our specific sub-division HOA rules?
28. Who will be representing us to the HOA? Is there any direct involvement that will be needed from us?
29. How many times have you been through Kings Point HOA approval process in the last 3 years?
30. How many other concurrent jobs do you typically run?
31. How do you handle change orders? Will you commit in the contract to following an in-writing change order process?
32. Who will be doing the final plans/drawings?
33. How and when do we meet with them?
34. How many plan/drawing revisions do we get?
35. Can you provide a 3D render? Cost?
36. Will you itemize your bid?
37. Will you work with a contract deadline with a penalty for missing it?
38. Will you let us review your sub-contractor selection?
39. If we have a different vendor or sub we want to use for a specific item like gunite or surface finish, how is that handled?
40. Do you provide a port-a-john during construction?
41. Will you protect the house, windows and patio from all concrete/plaster overspray with plastic sheeting or tarps?
42. How often will you clean-up debris?
43. Will you guarantee that the front yard is always free of trash and debris at the end of the day?
44. Will you do a thorough clean-up at the end of the job, including a magnetic sweep?
45. If wider access is needed through the fence/gate, will you provide temporary fencing?
46. Will you repair any changes the fence to its original condition?
47. Who is responsible for damaged lawn from construction traffic?
48. Will you repair any broken irrigation outside of the dig zone (path leading to jobsite)?
49. Will you repair or replace any broken or damaged existing incidentals such as windows or gutters?
50. Will you repair or replace any broken or damaged new incidentals such as tile, lighting or plumbing & electrical fixtures?
51. Will you repair any broken concrete on sidewalks or driveways that result from construction traffic?
52. Will you handle all utility marking?
53. Who is responsible for the repair costs of any cut or broken service lines (Cable/Phone/Gas/Power)?
54. What hours will subs be on-site? Any weekends?
55. Will you agree to have all sub's completed, cleaned up and off-site by 6pm each Weekday, 5pm on Saturdays and not scheduled for Sundays?
56. Will access to the interior or the house and/or garage be needed? When? To whom?
57. What kind of payment schedule will you be requesting?
58. Will you work with a 5% final payment that is payable upon completion of the punchlist?
59. Are there any situations where you will be asking for earlier payment than what is agreed upon up front?
60. What guaranties and warranties do you provide and for how long?
61. What soil concerns are for our area and is there anything you do to address it?
62. Are there any conditions or issues that could be found as part of the dig that could change the price or impact the project?
63. Do you handle Landscaping as well and/or do you have a Landscaper that you like to work with?
64. What Hardscape/Site Improvements are included as part of the core bid? (ie Grading, Drainage, Pathways, Raised Planting Areas, etc…)
65. Is there any part of the job that you are un-sure of or have reservations about?
66. Is there anything jumping out at you that we could change or do differently as a money saver?
67. Run us through your process/steps:



I developed this list originally for our patio project and it was quite useful so I just tweaked it to fit a pool project as best as I could. A few of of these are specific to our project but they could be of use if just changed to meet your specific needs.


-plat
Click to expand...


Oh how I wish I would have known about this website and this list back in March! Great list and your pool is going to be gorgeous!!
 
Well, things just got interesting. Builder/bidder #2 is out of the running. He was the only one we were still waiting for a revised bid from and had not been in touch for over a week since I emailed asking for it.

He called this afternoon apologizing about the delay in getting back to me and wanted to go over a few things on the revised bid plan. After about 10 minutes of clarifying a few things he starts to broach the subject about getting some kind of fee to continue...

I immediately feel my blood pressure rise thinking to myself what the %#@^ is this guy talking about. A fee to give me a bid?

LOL. I mean seriously. LOL!

OK so I play along and he begins telling me about how much time he's put in on the bid and everything (36 hours he says, AutoCAD, yada yada yada). I keep it polite and professional and simply tell him well, this is a bid process. I don't pay for bids. The risk is on you as a salesperson. You have a 30% chance of getting my business but I am sorry, paying for a bid on a design revision is not something I am going to be doing. It's cordial and we go back and forth and really I almost get the feeling like he's trying to get me to release him from this. Then he starts in on how if the other 2 builders aren't asking for the same thing, I should be questioning their reliability and ability. At that point I tell him no, the other bidders aren't asking to get paid for a design change on the bid and that they are both pretty well respected companies with good reviews and portfolios that match our project. I'm pretty much done with him at this point and I can tell he's thinking what I am thinking so I tell him I'll save us the time and trouble, let's just wrap this up. Thanks. Goodbye.

Honestly, at this point given that the other two bids and his were so close, I am kind of glad to have one of them out of the mix. Now it's 50/50 for two companies that really shined so far and have been more responsive to any request I have had. I've also now weeded out the possibility of ending up with a contractor who while well rated and with a great portfolio, showed an oddity at the end that made my spidey-sense tingle.

So with that off my chest; good riddance! Now we just need to make a decision based on who we want to work with out of two great choices.


Thanks for listening.
plat-
 

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Interesting, on the flip side, put yourself in his position, he has to make a living too and in some industries asking for the company to pay for scoping/quoting when it is extensive is not uncommon. It is a matter of opportunity cost. He is seeing that he has spent alot of time, will need more tume and only a 33% chance of getting the commission. . He is probably better off doing several smaller jobs that don't take as much time.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk
 
kimkats said:
OH adult word NO! LOL Hey at least he gave you a good story to tell!

LOVE your list! May I copy it and post it to people in the bid process with credit to you of course?

Kim
Click to expand...

Thanks. Yeah feel free to edit, repost, forward, etc...



mgmoore7 said:
Let me just add that i too would have let him go too but just have a different perspective on it being so terrible.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

My view is not that this was so terrible. More of an annoyance because I had been waiting for him to get back to me for 10 days or so only to have him essentially drop out. I would have been focusing more on choosing between the other two builders otherwise. Christmas is coming and I want to have gunite in before that so the yard is not a complete wreck and on hold for the holidays.


-plat
 
No thankfully. Still have friends living there, but we're all way past the bali nightclub phase of our lives.
Bali still is, to Australian kids, what Cancun is to US kids. Somewhere to go wild after graduation.
 
Wowzas!! Can't wait to see this unfold.

Cannot believe the PB that asked for money! And how flakey all the others were. Guess it makes narrowing down much easier!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
We should have a decision on the pool builder (of the two remaining) by mid next week at which point I will be able to post some specifics on equipment choices and what-not. From there it will be City/HOA approvals to knock out before the dig so hopefully I'll just be resurrecting this thread a couple months after that instead of ranting on the whole time about how messed up the permitting process is to deal with. I give it 50/50 either way.

Thanks!
-plat
 

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