TF 100 Test kit arrived

[Johnny B]

You should rinse with tap ……….tap water so the vial will be clean for next time.”
Exactly as I’m doing from this point forward (and did in the post below)

Both the FC and CC test are done with a single sample.
Got it
“If FC was 0 and CC was 5, the sample will not turn pink when you first add the R-0870 powder. That just tells you that the FC is 0, you then add the five drops of R-0003 to see if there is any CC.”
So my prior post about “quitting the tap water test” was an error on my part. Now I got it. (I’ll be cutting & pasting all this stuff in my pool school document that I’m doing, I’ll eventually get it but there is plenty of stuff here)

Do you have the pump running for at least an hour before doing a test? You want the pool water well mixed before you test it.
Yes. Its 24/7 until I get it balanced for 4 days in a row, at which time I’ll cut it back to 12 hours off in the coolest darkest time, gradually scaling to 8 hours ON I assume. Chime in if the “4 days in a row” is ideal, Carolinians chime in if you’ve found 8 hours to be decent (I’ll get the # of hours of 100% sunlight in my post as I am determining that (and my shoe size, hair color etc- joke)

 

[Johnny B]

Update
I have tried to improve my consistency/accuracy by continually counting aloud the drop # between drops. I believe I could have erred here in the past ( counting > 20 drops & waiting 10 seconds between drops is a place for error).

7:00pm, about 17 hours since last addition of 493 oz of bleach
Water is clear
FC 1.5 (actually did run this twice)
CC 23
TC 24.5
pH 7.2 ( notice this has been dropping)
TA 140
CH 400
CYA 30 (was at 28 & closest gradation is 30)

I have gone to the calculator
I need to add 544 oz of bleach right ? (FC goal is 15?)
I am unsure of what all my Goals should be? I can check pool school but I see that sometimes you say "it depends on ....."
Ph goal 7.5?
TA goal 120?
CH goal 400?
CYA goal 30?

Thanks

 

[Johnny B]

Re my signature’s “Re-plastered 9/ /06”
If its relevant to your helping on this issue.
I read some posts on how to properly treat new plaster.
Our plaster guy probably got an F.
He got an F in 2004 & we made him redo it in 2006 after busting butt, & failing, to keep it clean for 2 seasons. We are reasonable, he was reasonable, things happen. Long story, another topic. But if it matters here, now you know

 

[Johnny B]

In the spirit of lazyness , I mean consistency, I am going to wait to do my Cl tests in bucket water until tomarrow's daylight.
I feel super confident about my attention to detail in the latest test above.

I have a high quality reading light if you insist I do the bucket tonight- no problem at all.

I absolutely will add any chemicals or perform any tests tonight that you wish.

 

[Guest]

7:00pm, about 17 hours since last addition of 493 oz of bleach
Water is clear
FC 1.5 (actually did run this twice)
CC 23
TC 24.5
pH 7.2 ( notice this has been dropping)

You very possibly have noticed the pH appear to drop at the chlorine level dropped. Very high chlorine levels interfere with the pH test and cause it to read high. Do not adjust pH unless your chlorine (TC) is below about 20 ppm! 15 ppm is better!.
I suspect that you have been using trichlor tablets in this pool. Trichlor is very acidic and will cause the pH to continuously fall. If you are going to switch to bleach then you will have to make some adjustments to your TA a bit down the line.

Also, If you have been using trichlor and your CYA is only 30 ppm then there is a very strong chance that there is LOT of ammonia in your water right now, which your very high CC readings seems to suggest. It's not that hard a fix but it will take a bit of chlorine!
The bucket test is your next step.

Just as an observation, there seems to be some carelessness and chaos in your testing technique. Even your answers in this thread seem to be a bit chaotic at times. How can we help you get a handle on all this? Have you read the pool school material? It might be confusing at first but if you read it over a few times it will start to make sense and everything will click.

 

[Johnny B]

“You very possibly have noticed the pH appear to drop at the chlorine level dropped. Very high chlorine levels interfere with the pH test and cause it to read high. Do not adjust pH unless your chlorine (TC) is below about 20 ppm! 15 ppm is better!. “
Ok, you may have to remind me.
“I suspect that you have been using trichlor tablets in this pool.”
Correct, in my signature.
None this year, the Hayward thing is still hooked up, but no pucks, residue for sure, I wash & scraped it but still residue. Tell me if you think it’s a problem.
“Trichlor is very acidic and will cause the pH to continuously fall. If you are going to switch to bleach then you will have to make some adjustments to your TA a bit down the line.”
OK tell me when.

“Also, If you have been using trichlor and your CYA is only 30 ppm then there is a very strong chance that there is LOT of ammonia in your water right now, which your very high CC readings seems to suggest. It's not that hard a fix but it will take a bit of chlorine!”
No problem, just let me know when, I’ll go shopping. If you can guess a ball park amount of gallons I’ll be sure to buy in that range
“The bucket test is your next step.”
OK. I will do that tomorrow & report.
Please specify which bucket test you want me to do;
1- a test for extreme chlorine demand.
Or
2- “get a sample from your pool in a container and then use that sample to test and repeat the test on the sample to see if your results vary as much as they have been instead of dipping each test right from the pool. This would tell us if your procedure has problems or if there is very pool circulation in your pool.”

Just as an observation, there seems to be some carelessness and chaos in your testing technique.
Everyone & me conclude that. I’m trying my very best to be careful, ignorance looks chaotic too I suppose.

Even your answers in this thread seem to be a bit chaotic at times
I’m very sorry for that. Feel free, anyone, if you’d like me to post differently in some way, PM is fine or on the forum won’t bother me
How can we help you get a handle on all this?
You guys are doing pretty well. You’ve helped me refine my testing technique, I am very confident about that now.
You can help me when I ask you to confirm what chemicals I want to add based on what I put in the calculator. I am trying to be clear with my questions in my posts. Walk me through/ hold my hand with the chemicals & the actions needed based on the test results until I can get it mastered
“Have you read the pool school material?”
Yes, and some threads.
“It might be confusing at first but if you read it over a few times it will start to make sense and everything will click.”
I am sure you are correct. Please understand that the 1st day I found the TFP forum is the 1st day I began to learn about pool care (wife did it before me, I like TFP’s ideas better), I crammed as much of the TFP forum info as I could prior to opening the pool & the opening came shortly after- all in about the last 3 weeks or so. Next 4 days will be a good time for me to review PSchool &I’m sure it won’t be the last.
One problem is I don’t type fast so that take some time, and I have only so much time to re-read PSchool & the threads in a day- if there is a way to see my activity I’d hope you’d say I’m at least trying & putting in the effort. I don’t confuse effort with results, but I am brand new to pool care, 3 weeks or so. The internet is no as smooth communication as face to face (one guy tries to come across like he’s really trying & it interpreted as chaotic- nobody’s fault).

I am trying to be clear with my questions in my posts. That is where I need help, and with the test results analysis & actions needed based on the test results.

All your help & courtesies are highly appreciated.

 

[Guest]

Feel free, anyone, if you’d like me to post differently in some way, PM is fine or on the forum won’t bother me
If you look at the upper right corner of a post you will see a box that says "quote". If you click on that you can quote a post in your answer. You can then type your responses in the post and then use your mouse to highlight your response and then click on the B (for bold type, or i for italics or u for underline) in the upper left hand corner of the edit box. It might make your reponses a bit less chaotic looking and faster to type out!

All your help & courtesies are highly appreciated.

Now isn't that much easier to read and know who is who? :-D We have a special section of the forum called "the test track" for trying out and practicing techniques like this.
test-track-f26.html

 

[JasonLion]

If the plaster was done in 2006 then it won't be having the "new plaster effect" any more at this point. New plaster affects things for up to one year.

The CYA test should be read to the nearest marked level, don't try to estimate between the divisions. On the 6th your CYA level was 40. Today your CYA level is 30. That is the same within the precision of the test, which is about +-20. Your FC target level remains 15.

All of your numbers look fine for now except for the CC level, which is way way too high. However, the FC and CC results have been inconsistent, so it is difficult to tell if the CC measurement is completely believable or not. Later, when things settle down, there might be some minor fine tuning to do on the other levels, but for now the main focus should be getting CC down to zero.

Yes, go ahead and add the 544 oz of bleach. If it isn't too difficult do a single FC & CC test about 30 minutes after adding the bleach.

Part of the "chaos" in our answers is that we make different interpretations of your test results at different times. The FC & CC test results you have reported can not all be correct. Depending on which test results we assume are wrong, and why, the next step to take can be very different.

 

[Johnny B]

Quickly IF that is important- I must be away from 11:15am - 1:30pm

Last night did NOT add bleach
Today, added the 544 oz of bleach at 9:20am
Went shopping for alot of bleach

10:15 am today
FC 1.5
CC 23.5
TC 25

 

[Johnny B]

Waterbear & Jason. Thanks for the suggestions. All others welcomed

Part of the "chaos" in our answers is that we make different interpretations of your test results at different times. The FC & CC test results you have reported can not all be correct. Depending on which test results we assume are wrong, and why, the next step to take can be very different.

I understand, makes sense.
I am very confident of my testing now thanks to you guys

Please advise the next action, more bleach , extreme bucket test, or practice testing using a smaller sample, some other action?

Thanks

 

[Johnny B]

My calculator indicates to add bleach 2 gallons 3 cups or 2.9 (96 oz) jugs.

But I prefer to wait your replies before proceeding.

 

[frustratedpoolmom]

I don't know if it would do any good....but....I'm gonna say it anyway.

Can you take a sample of your pool water, put it in a rinsed out waterbottle or something and drive over to a local pool store and have them test it? ( If they are testing with strips don't bother, a drop based test system would be better, and even then....well never mind. ) It might not be worthwhile, but just so you have something to compare your results to? See if your testing results are at all similar? ( You have to get to the pool store fairly soon after taking out the sample, otherwise the accuracy of the results could be questionable. So if you can't do it wtihin 20 minutes or so... don't let the sample sit around...)

I've been following Richard (Chem Geek's) thread about CYA turning to Ammonia, perhaps you could buy and inexpensive Ammonia test from the Petshop and test your water for ammonia? (In some conditions, users are reporting their CYA converting to Ammonia when Bacteria is present and FC has dropped to zero.) Just wondering if there is something here we could be missing....

 

[Johnny B]

Gotta go
Went to add ther 2.9 jugs Bleach

 

[JasonLion]

If we believe that your most recent test numbers are correct then you must have a great deal of ammonia, or something similar, in the water. Going with that assumption, the next thing to do is the extreme chlorine demand test. That will give us an idea of just how much chlorine it will take to clear things up.

 

[Johnny B]

Per Jason, I shall go & start the bucket test now & report back.
I have sunlight on the entire pool till about 5pm, then its absent by 7:00pm. Assuming I can get back to you w final bucket test today, would you like me to add the indicated bleach starting when the sun is off the pool. I ought to be free now till Sun, all night tonight, to hopefully lick this issue- thinking positive.


Ammonia test from the Petshop- I can do that, the shop knows what I'm after/do I ask for anything specific?

Pool store test. I can do that.

Thanks

 

[JasonLion]

Assuming I can get back to you w final bucket test today, would you like me to add the indicated bleach starting when the sun is off the pool.

That is one possibility, it depends on what the test results are.

 

[Johnny B]

FYI
Recent concrete cutting (dusty) & laying (powder at mixing) on pool deck. Pol was covered (not solid cover) at the time.
I thought I did a good job keeping the dust away, but surely some went in.
Just FYI if relevant.

 

[Johnny B]

I added bleach at 1120 am; 3 (96 oz) jugs ( should have done 2.9, I goofed)
Bucket test in progress, water sample for bucket test was 2:50 pm

Leslies:
1- they do not have R-0871 liquid for me to buy that I am running out of

2- Leslies Water analysis done at 3:30pm
FAC 5
TAC 5
Total Bromine NA
pH 7.2
TA 90
CH 240
CYA 30
TDS 650
Phosphates 100

They fly through the tests.

Will go to pet shop in next hour for amonia check. FYI - Petsmart will test the sample for you for free

 

[Johnny B]

Bucket test results, done 1 hr after the bleach went in as advised.
FC 14-15 (Wrong ! I forgot to multiply by 0.50 So 7-7.5 is correct FC, This is an edit)
So according to the instuctions I am done w the test.

Please advise.
I can add bleach now or around 6:00pm the sun will be off the water.

When I add the bleach, please also give about the amount of time it should take for me to "slowly add" it. 4 minutes? 15 min? 30 min?

I am going to order some R-0871 online w Duraleigh.
After that I will attemp to figure out how much Bleach to add & compare to what you guys say.
I need to go study that link on the bucket test & the charts etc. But your help is needed, especially since I may not get my R-0871 in time (Easter etc). I'd really like to not start over

 

[Johnny B]

Referring to refer to the CYA/Chlorine Chart, my correct level.
CYA (Stabilizer) 30 Minimum FC 2 Target FC 4 Shock FC12


the extreme chlorine demand test. Instructions state:
Each oz of bleach is equal to 96 ppm of chlorine

TF 100 Test Kit states:
a pool should have a chlorine content of at least 2ppm

Pool School states:
Recommended Levels
Plaster with Bleach
FC 3-7
pH 7.5-7.8
TA 70-90
CH 250-350
CYA 30-50

I still don't know how to determine how much bleach I need but I am going to keep working on this