Upgrade Of Pool Pump, System, Equipment

[Divin Dave]

Albert,
a vacuum to waste valve is definitely an asset on any pool.

As a FYI, vacuuming or filtering the algae is not going to solve the algae problem. You have to kill it first with Chlorine and its a process, not a one time dose of chlorine to get rid of all of it.

I recommend that when you're ready to tackle the algae problem, which SHOULD be the very first thing you do, to start a new thread about doing it.

 

[albert436]

Thanks for the tip DD.

And now this:

I'm thinking the Dolphin Nautilus Plus might be a good cleaner to get when the dust settles.

But wait, does it really pick up algae ? Maybe not in the amounts we have. But if it did, I'm just thinking, maybe purchase this thing now and let it do the algae clean up. Is this a stupid idea ?

Just brainstorming here.

- - - Updated - - -

Sorry missed your previous post, DD, someone else PMd me a couple of days ago and said to put all my questions into one thread, so now I'm a little confused about how this forum works. ? ? ?

But anyway I have put a boat load of algae killer and chlorine shock stuff in there a few times and I think much of the algae is D-E-A-D, but there is a bunch of it laying on the floor of the pool. I posted pics of it but I don't know what happened to them. They were showing just fine yesterday or this morning or whenever I posted them, but now they are just dead end "attachment" links.

So I would like to do as you say but would like to get all that dead algae off the bottom which the filter seems unable to handle.

Happy to start another thread, just not sure since I was asked to confine my questions to here. ?? ?? ??

Enjoy your straightforward helpful posts, especially about the LED lights squashing the bug problem, lol.

 

[duraleigh]

I have not followed this thread from the beginning but I think you may be trying to use the filter to get algae out of your pool. That will NEVER work.

I believe your problem is with water chemistry and not really related to your filter. Can you post test results? What does your water look like? Cot a pic?

It is fine to keep your posts under this thread.

 

[albert436]

I posted a bunch of pics but they have disappeared, I will post again when I get a chance.

The water has cleared up and the algae has all sunk to the bottom.

I have had a brainstorm in the middle of the night although it may just turn out to be a light drizzle.

My plumbing setup doesn't have an option to pump directly to exhaust/outflow. The filter seems unable to handle the algae load. Of course I wouldn't vacuum to backflow through the filter, as someone wisely reminded me, but that did give me another idea.

What about if I take out the filter, close the canister back up, and set the valves to backflow ? Then turn on the pump and vacuum up all the algae from the bottom. It should go out into the empty filter canister, then out the exhaust flow pipe, shouldn't it ? When it is all said and done, I will turn everything off, then open up the canister and make sure it is good and clean before replacing the cleaned filters.

Good idea or completely idiotic ?

I think it is good !




Here is another try at a pic, this was before the latest blast with algacide and chlorine shock treatment:


Just want to reduce bioload at this point since the filter seems unable to get this stuff out of the circulated water, that's why I want to vacuum to exhaust/waste. The shallow end looks about the same or worse.

 

[Divin Dave]

well you certainly have an algae problem and needs to be SLAMMED.
Definitely a candidate to be vacuumed to waste.

I think a better idea for vacuuming would be remove the filters from in the canister and remove the drain plug from bottom of the canister and vacuum and let it run out from the plug in the bottom of the can. Im assuming your filter can has a drain plug in the bottom though.

I dont know if vacuuming on backwash will work well or not. It might, but I just dont know enough about the mechanics of doing that to be certain. You can certainly try it and see.

 

[jblizzle]

With the cartridge out of the filter, backwashing should work fine.

 

[albert436]

Thanks Gentlemen.

DD I think draining from the plug, if there is one, will make a mess. The pipe from the backwash on the other hand exits the back of the pool shed and I can get better control of it.

I think I'll hook up one of those collapsible hoses to it so we can capture the water to use around the yard, I guess.

My mom is a total conservationist and in any case we are in the midst of a huge drought right now, what an inopportune time for this.

Maybe the El Nino weather system will bring a deluge this winter and our problems will shift to flooding.

 

[albert436]

Meanwhile back at the ranch, another question, this one about filters.

If I re-do the pump and filter system.

I've been reading up on DE vs. Sand vs. Cartridge filters. I saw something for the first time that said too big a pump or specifically too much pressure can harm the filters on a cartridge or DE system. Funny I had never seen anything about it before.

Was thinking about the variable speed Intelliflo, and then a filter that was above the minimum recommended. I like the simplicity of sand actually. I have been reading up on it and I guess there's no "right" answer, so I will continue to contemplate while getting rid of the algae.

 

[albert436]

Here's where we cut the concrete to facilitate re-do of the light wiring. The other pic show where the pool shed is, we have new wiring and subpanel inside there.

I can trench this thing out and can even get the electrical hookup done with a new J-box. Any idea what would be reasonable cost to have them just replace the light ? I'm in San Diego and realize costs are different by region, but anything would give me a start. So far I've had quotes of $1200 - 1700 which seem a bit high to me. Or maybe I'm wrong on that ?

 

[albert436]

Vacuumed out the algae today. Took the filters out, put the canister back together, set to backwash, sucked it all up.

Cleaned filters, put them back together, put some DE through the vacuum hose.

Water level is too low to use skimmer so going to run pump for a while through vacuum.

Don't want to add water yet as I want to replace light. The point being I'm going to drop the water a bit further to do that so no sense filling back up again just right now.

Advice on replacement light ?

Plain white for now, those colored LEDs are just too much $$ for now.

What about the white LEDs, are those good value ? Or stick with the old fashioned kind.

What's the deal with 12V vs 120V ?

 

[Divin Dave]

When it comes to filters, general rule is the bigger the filter the better, because then you dont have to clean it as much.
And it is defintely possible to have a filter thats too small. Chart for recommended pump and filter sizes by pool size?

The intelliflo is a great pump, and being CA, is defintely worth consideration. There are other VS pumps which are smaller than the intelliflo and other manufacturers too, so doing your homework will pay off. Most places electric companies in CA also have rebates if you install a VS pump, so check that out too.

Meanwhile back at the ranch, another question, this one about filters.

If I re-do the pump and filter system.

I've been reading up on DE vs. Sand vs. Cartridge filters. I saw something for the first time that said too big a pump or specifically too much pressure can harm the filters on a cartridge or DE system. Funny I had never seen anything about it before.

Was thinking about the variable speed Intelliflo, and then a filter that was above the minimum recommended. I like the simplicity of sand actually. I have been reading up on it and I guess there's no "right" answer, so I will continue to contemplate while getting rid of the algae.

 

[Divin Dave]

LED lights are obvously much more energy efficient so if you light up the pool often at night, like I do, its worth the investment.
THey also last way longer than regular bulbs to.
Another big plus with LED, is that they dont attract bugs nearly as bad as incandescent bulbs do.

12V vs 120V LEDs is a bit of a misnomer. Most all LEDs operate on DC voltage. The 120V models have circuitry in them that basically transform the 120V Ac to 12V DC. These type bulps are handy for retrofits because you dont have to completely re-do all of the wiring, change the fixture and add an external transformer.

the 12V version has a transformer and controller which mounts at the equipment pad. The advantage of this, is that if you were to have multiple lights, and wanted the color changes to be synchronized, then you could do that. But they are twice or more the the cost of the "120V" one.

regarding replacing the light. You probably will need to replace the entire light fixture. The fixture has the power cord integrated into it. Plus who knows what sort of shape the light socket is in.

The light niche should have a conduit coupling buiilt on to the back of it. Just dig down, remove the old conduit. Then screw in a Male PVC to slip fitting and install new PVC conduit. Fish the cable thorugh, wire it up, (dont forget to leave some excess cord coiled up behind the light), put the fixture back in and you're done. Easy stuff, except for the digging part.

Vacuumed out the algae today. Took the filters out, put the canister back together, set to backwash, sucked it all up.

Cleaned filters, put them back together, put some DE through the vacuum hose.

Water level is too low to use skimmer so going to run pump for a while through vacuum.

Don't want to add water yet as I want to replace light. The point being I'm going to drop the water a bit further to do that so no sense filling back up again just right now.

Advice on replacement light ?

Plain white for now, those colored LEDs are just too much $$ for now.

What about the white LEDs, are those good value ? Or stick with the old fashioned kind.

What's the deal with 12V vs 120V ?

 

[albert436]

DD thanks for the info.

I realized earlier tonight, I really ought to go out there early tomorrow morning (off work, yay! ) and drop the water level, then take out the light. That way I can measure it and the niche to make sure of the size and so forth before buying the new light.

The incandescent lights are around $200 and the white LEDs are around $400 it looks like. Complicating factor, my mom is fairly adamant about paying for everything herself due to inheritance issues between me and my siblings, and this is a rather touchy subject with her, I think I mentioned she is 90 years old. Mainly I want her to have a lovely fixed up house and pool to live in so she can enjoy life as much as possible. Why not after all, she deserves it. But she doesn't want me to pay for stuff and well you know how some senior citizens can get, let's just call it temperamental about some things shall we ?

So after making sure of the size of niche and compatibility, I will decide on a light and order or just buy it. I like to patronize local businesses, but some of their prices can be exorbitant, and sometimes they have to order the items anyway.

Bob says when I get the light and everything is set, he'll come over that afternoon and we'll trench down and install it. Really now, the local pool stores quoted me $1200 and $1700 to do this (it did include the light though).

Question: What else do I need ? Potting compound for internal bonding wire? Is this actually the same thing as a ground wire or not exactly the same thing ? Do you use conduit lubricant for pulling wire/cable ? Should I buy a light switch ? Do I need a tube of sealant type stuff for where the cord goes into the conduit, or is it actually OK for water to be in the conduit, given the cord is already permanently attached to light ? Should there be a little rubber gasket/plug where the cord goes into the conduit to keep water out ?

And so forth, I know, lots of questions, huh ?

:sunny:

Thank you !

PS Found the table for filters, have seen similar info before which is consistent with that.

Question -- I could just copy current plumbing setup and substitute in new components, for the most part, except that the valves on the new filter would be different. But, would it be better to design it out on paper? I'm not quite sure where to start with that or if it is not necessary. What I mean by copy current setup is just put pump and filter in same places. I don't think I want to use the aux pump but instead lose that type of cleaner. I actually had fun vacuuming today. Maybe a robot is in the future ?

About putting the filters back into the cylinder, oh boy that was fun, until I figured out how to do it. Basically assemble it upside down outside the cannister, then turn it sideways to put the nuts on the threaded bolts to tie it together. Then put the whole assembly into the cylinder together.

Only took me an hour+ to figure out that easy way to do it, well live and learn, if someone had just showed or told me it would have been a piece of cake.

 

[albert436]

BTW here's the current setup. I think I'd like to lose the aux pump, which would create more room for the Intelliflo. I'd like to not have the extra angle in the pipe into the pump, so maybe it could mount at an angle, using the extra space where the aux pump now resides. That filter is a 36sqft DE, just to give you an idea of its size.

Do I still need the pump timers mounted behind the current pump ? Or does the Intelliflo handle that all electronically ?

 

[albert436]

Took out the light, don't know how to post pics on cell phone. It is about 7.5" deep standing upside down on the lens, and about 10.5" wide including ring around outside.
Back says: Mode R-400 BC 120 Volt 500 Lamp Max Watt

Called one of the pool supply places expecting an expert but the girl didn't know much.

Guessing almost any of these lights will fit eg Amerilite, the girl said she found a Hayward model that was supposed to be compatible.

Please advise!

 

[Agent99]

Sounds like a relatively standard light. I have the same in my pool. Post the pic later to be sure.

 

[albert436]

 

[Agent99]

Show us the business side....the lens part.

 

[albert436]

Oh shucks that's the one thing I didn't shoot, give me a few minutes.

 

[albert436]

Just looking online at photos, this glass does look exactly like that on the Pentair incandescent, does it not ?

This one pool guy called me back today and said it would be only $2650 to take care of the draining of the pool (done) and replacing of the light including electrical work ie. pulling conduit, junction box, GFI, switch, etc.

Does that sound like a good deal to you guys ?




TPF is your friend !

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