Need some stormwater managment help

[thenikeman]

Hi, our pool was installed last year in July, so we didn't have time to do much besides getting the pool itself up (and that was a pain, but hopefully in the past)... but I was able to get a decent backfill around the pool. Our pool/yard is at the bottom of our road, thus we receive a lot of extra water from rains. It sits in the back corner of my yard (which is flat, of course), tucked in the corner. After having a lot of rain/snow that is now melting, I am able to see where all the water is trying to go. The backfill is doing a good job diverting the water from the pool, which was the first major task I needed to complete (can't risk water getting under the pool and washing away all my sand)! My new issue however is how to better route the runoff water so that it doesn't cause everything around my pool to be completely muddy! Right on the other side of my chain link fence behind my pool is a large slope that runs into a creek. Ideally I would like my water to get to this point so it is not just settling on my flat yard around the pool. With all the being said, what can I do to make this happen and be relatively cheap too? Below are some random pictures to describe what I have been talking out above....thanks!!

Looking up at the slope I have to contend with:

Front side of pool that is doing a good job diverting water around:

Behind the pool where I would like the water to go:

Standing water starting to make its way around:

Backfill on backside of pool:

Backfill and water diverting around pool (and settling around my pump and filter which may not be good):

 

[waste]

This is your chance to play with your new best friends, Mr. Shovel and Mr. Wheelbarrow! :lol:

What you want I refer to as a curtain drain. Dig a trench ~18" wide and ~ 1- 2' deep (got any friends with a small backhoe - if not say hello to Mr. Shovel) along the bottom of the slope to where you want the water to end up (I'm assuming the woods pictured and that it's your property to dig on). Line the trench with weed block fabric and put a couple inches of gravel in the trench. Lay in drainage pipe (3 -4" plastic pipe with holes on the sides) - the pipe needs to slope down the where it will end a drop of 1" per 10' should suffice. Add more gravel to cover the pipe ~ 2", wrap the ends of the weed block fabric over this (like 'pigs in a blanket' the gravel surrounded pipe is the hot dog and the weed block fabric is the filo dough) and add gravel to be ~4" from the existing ground level, top with dirt and replant grass.

The house side end of the pipe should either be capped or, preferably, 90ed to stick up ~ 6" and capped (use pipe without holes for the stub up) this would allow you to more easily clear anything that obstructs the pipe in the future.

Try to plan ahead when digging the trench, lay out the pipe as you go and match the turns in the trench to the connectors you get (22.5, 45 and 90* elbows), you want the pipe to be ~ centered in the trench.

Sound like a lot of work, it is :!: - just be thankful it's not an IG pool... the trench would have to be a LOT deeper

 

[thenikeman]

Thanks a lot for that information, very helpful!! After searching around what you described, I am seeing a lot of references to french drains too.

In the pic below, I drew what I pictured to be the layout of the drain system. Am I anywhere close? Would I want to make it wider and go back (up the hill, out of picture) further? And yes, between the fence and the trees is all my property. The first 10 feet past the fence is somewhat level, then it takes a big drop over the next 30 feet until it hits the creek (right before the trees).

Please let me know what I would want to do differently. I understand the piping concept, just don't know about the best layout. Thanks again!

 

[thenikeman]

The more I read about this, the more I don't think my picture is correct.....help??

 

[waste]

Nothing wrong with the pic, I was just envisioning only needing/ wanting the drain along the front and one side of the pool, where the water comes down the slope. I differentiate between a curtain drain and a French drain by weather or not the gravel is covered (a French drain would have the trench filled with gravel to ground level and left exposed). If you do the 'wrap around' drain like you picture start with coupling 2 lengths of pipe together at the center point and have each side slope down 1" / 10'. Water is lazy and will take the path of least resistance, which you're going to provide with the pipe and gravel.

Feel free to bounce any ideas or questions off us Happy digging

 

[thenikeman]

So, would I benefit the same if I did just go down one side, say the left side of the pic? If I do one side only, would the piece of pipe in front of the pool need to be higher on the right side sloping down to the left where it would then connect w/ the side piece?

Thanks again!

 

[robrinker]

Can't help with any of the logistics on your drain, but I did want to mention that if you don't have any friends with a small backhoe AND you'd rather not use Mr. Shovel, see if a local tool rental store has a trencher. Much easier and faster than Mr. Shovel.

 

[waste]

After taking another look at the pics (THANKS for them, they really help) it looks like your neighbors' yard may also slope towards the pool, so the wrap around design you originally pictured would prevent any trouble from that side.

Also, you can see in the pics where the water is 'digging' it's own trench, you would want your trench to at least be there, if not a little further away from the pool.

There are some tips I may be able to give on using the backhoe, what to do with the excavated dirt, etc. , ask if you need them or, as I said, just run your plans by us and we'll help as we can.

 

[thenikeman]

Thank you everyone again! I am still researching, but I do like your point about the neighbors yard - thus I'll probably lean towards that design now. I am about to call Home Depot to see what they have for trenching help. How far back past the fence do I need to go..just far enough that it will drain out and be guaranteed to run down the hill? And I assume that that end needs to be fully exposed to runoff correctly?

 

[waste]

You've got the right idea, again

You want the run off to be ~open, so that it can freely flow. On the other hand... you don't want critters using your pipes to build their nests in nor do you want to wash a trench in the existing bank where you have the pipes end. So, what you can do at the discharge end of the pipes is to use some of the 'left over' gravel (it's ~ impossible to get enough without getting some extra ) ) at the ends of the pipes to diffuse the water that will, at certain times of the year, 'flow' out of them Spread the extra gravel at the open ends to prevent undue channeling from your discharge and cover the pipe ends with a ~small mesh (ie. ~ 1/8" squares) to prevent rodents from building their nests in them.

As I said, keep running the questions/ plans by us and we'll continue to help

 

[thenikeman]

Called the Home Depot, and they have the ditch witch available...4 hrs for $89 or 24 hrs for $127. She said it would cut 4.5" x 28" deep. Seem like that would be a good route to go? Is it worth trying to get it done in 4 hrs, or will that be no problem at all? Have never used one, so didn't know how quick my trench in question would take to cut out..

Thanks!

 

[thenikeman]

... you don't want critters using your pipes to build their nests in

I do have a Dang mole that I can never find...is he going to pose a threat to my setup???

 

[robrinker]

Called the Home Depot, and they have the ditch witch available...4 hrs for $89 or 24 hrs for $127. She said it would cut 4.5" x 28" deep. Seem like that would be a good route to go? Is it worth trying to get it done in 4 hrs, or will that be no problem at all? Have never used one, so didn't know how quick my trench in question would take to cut out..

Thanks!

I have used the Ditch Witch before. Unless the ground you are trying to trench is clay, or covered with tree roots, 4 hrs should probably do it. I would ask Home Depot if you could get it for 24hrs, but get the 4 hour rate if you get it back to them in that amount of time.

 

[waste]

I hate to be a "nattering nay-bob of negativity" - but a 'ditchwhitch' won't give you the trench & drainage you want It's for pulling ~ 1" pipe to run sprinkler systems. Small backhoe or Mr. Shovel are the way to go You need both the pipe to carry the water away and the gravel to convey it - whatever the ditchwhich could do wouldn't be deep enough nor have the ability to move that much water.

Sorry

 

[thenikeman]

I guess Mr. Shovel it is! I spoke to my father-in-law, and here is what he had to offer:

"I think I'd dig a trench from the south corner of of your garage (the building you may see in some of the pictures) straight across your yard to link fence. Find the low spot and trench to fence line by creek, behind pool. Put in some draintile - 1-2" gravel and top with sod."

He has done this before, I have not...is this an option too? I want to to do whatever will perform the best (keeping water away), but also have to keep cost in mind too.

Thoughts?

 

[waste]

If that will handle the large amount of water you get periodically, that's fine

I was just trying to tell you the way for it not to be a problem under almost any circumstances 8)

 

[thenikeman]

Well, might be a slight (or major) change in plans. After investigating the yard a little bit more today, the whole yard is a SWAMP, thus we would only be helping about 1/5 of our yard out if I did the trenching right in front of the pool. With that being said, this is the new plan in question:

The red line represents a trench that would be dug clear across my fence line. The blue, shaded area is a current "natural" trench that carries a lot of the water from up the hill too. I would be digging a trench along that fence line too, until it hits the natural trench a little further down (out of picture). Doing this would not only help the pool, but my entire swamp yard. Yeah, I'll still have to contend with rain on my lot that will run down, but it should be A LOT less than mine + 3 other yards too (or 75% less water).

Thoughts and opinions on this setup??

As always, thanks for your time, you all have been great!

 

[waste]

Nothing wrong with trying to stop the water further up the slope and using the natural 'trench' at the fence I would think about a shallower version of a trench to the fence, like what your father in law suggested, to keep the runoff from your yard from impeding on the pool bottom - it'd be an easier job, and just let it run into the fence trench 8)

 

[thenikeman]

In addition to the trench along the top of my yard, I believe I will need to release some of the water that is always standing around the pool (although it should be FAR less now). Here is what I am picturing:

Any suggestions if I go this route? That part should be pretty easy to divert, as I know the path it is already taking. I just have to get it to that big slope to ensure it doesn't try to creep back up towards the pool (as I think it is currently doing around the fence line in the grass, pretty level there).

 

[thenikeman]

I also think that I may need to add a sideways trench too, to catch more of the water. Would a trench that runs parallel w/ that orange fencing be suffice too, or overkill?