Concrete Deck Slipping From Coping Around In Ground Vinyl Pool

[ultramegadon]

Hi everyone!

I just started reading your site, and am amazed and how much great info is here. I have an issue I was hoping some of your experts might have seen before.

The situation:
I have the winning bid on a house, and am in the last couple days of my inspection period, and have concerns about the pool.

The problem:
The in ground vinyl pool is surrounded by concrete, basically, a sidewalk around the pool. The concrete seems to be settling or separating along one side, and has left a trench between the coping and the cement.

Is this something that can be patched/repaired, or would I have to have the entire concrete deck broken down and repoured? Any help is appreciated!

 

[kimkats]

What is on the other side of the cement? How does it look? How does the sides of the pool inside look?

Kim

 

[ultramegadon]

Kim,

Thank you for the quick follow up. Here are a couple of shots. The pool liner was just replaced this season, and the inside looks great, I missed the gaps until the home inspection! The ground tapers off, so the concrete looks to have settled downhill.

 

[kimkats]

What I find interesting is that there are NO cracks in the it at all. IF it had settled then you would think it would have cracked.

You say the pool is a liner pool. I can see the liner BUT the edge looks like it might be fiberglass..........

Now I am just thinking out loud. I have NO bases for what I am saying except gut feelings about what I see.

Do you have access to the pool again? Can you tap on the side and see if you can tell what they are made off.

Kim

 

[ultramegadon]

Kim,

It is in fact a liner. I had a chance to take a look, and the coping seemed solid, where I would have guessed it would have swayed. I didn't think about the fact everything seeming so uniform might mean it wasn't a settling issue, but that was the only thing I could think of to easily explain it. Thanks again for taking the time!

 

[kimkats]

I am wondering if it is a liner over a fiberglass shell or something like that. What is under the liner?

Just thought of something else for you to look at..............is the water line even all around the pool? THAT will tell me what I am wanting to know as much as anything!

I have a couple of ideas but need you to let me know about the above.

Kim

 

[gwegan]

You have slow settlement over a long period of time. It would you be nice to know the condition of the walls. Before you close I'd ask to talk to the guy that did the last liner replacement.

Repair woul probably consist of removing the old and pouring new all around the pool.

This pool looks at lest 20 years old. I woul be looking for items that have exceeded there useful life.

 

[ouachita]

It almost looks like they screwed some of that synthetic wood product on top of the coping.

 

[kimmielea]

I had the same situation, I can post pictures when I get home. From my experience, you need to fix that asap. I had the old 6" aluminum coping and like you, the concrete settled, and I had gaps. Water got in the gaps and would cause my liner to float (it actually took me a while to realize this was causing the liner to float and not a high water table). The previous owner had tried to fill the void with cement or something similar. I tried with a non shrink concrete, and after a year it cracked (and did not help the water issue). Finally, when I replaced the liner, I had them replace the coping with an aluminum C coping (they had said that if I wanted to save money, I could have gone with the synthetic wood on top, but by then, I figured out the water issue) and then had new concrete poured over the old, they added extra fiber into the mix to make it strong since it would be about 2" in some places and up to 5" in others. Ever since, I haven't had any issues with the liner floating.

 

[ultramegadon]

Awesome, thanks a lot for the information everyone. I ended up hearing from the seller, and they gave me the quote for labor of the liner that was done LAST MONTH!!! It includes:

Draining Pool
Removing Old LIner
Rework Ground
Install New Liner
Padding and Adhesives Behind Liner
Cut All Openings and Install new Gaskets

I am hoping to hear what they saw when doing the work, and if this is a new issue or not. I cannot get back over there before the contingency period on the offer is up. Anyone want to scare me off with a worst case? I'll keep you posted if I get a call back from the (licensed) company that did it.

 

[ouachita]

How does the liner look? Smooth with no wrinkles or dips or sways in the walls or floor? I'm guessing the pool is fine.

Are you in Canton Texas? Does it have the shrink/swell expansive clay soil that Dallas does? It looks like new caulk hanging from the bottom of that coping trim. I'm guessing someone put that trim on top of the coping during an expansion cycle (wet weather) of the clay soil and caulked it. Then in the summer dryness the soil shrunk and dropped the sidewalk. If so it may swell back up this winter and look perfect. Up and down, up and down with the seasons. If that is the case the soil under it would need to be stabilized for a permanent fix. Otherwise you might come up with some kind of band aid solution to make it look ok.

 

[ultramegadon]

Update:

I just talked to the guy who did the work, and he started laughing and telling me how he was expecting a call as he knew the owner was selling when he did the work. The pool had been unused for 2 years, and while empty, the high water table pushed up and pushed the top of the pool inward, the cement had remained stationary. He said that the pool would hold it's shape, but that at the least the gaps would need to be sealed to keep more water from getting in. He suggested having someone tear the concrete out while the ground is dry, let the pool push itself back into shape (or give it a little help) then repour the concrete, while having some reinforcement cross beam of some type drilled into the steel frame to help anchor it. I then called a cement guy who was recommended by a local pool shop, and he said never heard nothin' 'bout no cross beams, but I put new concrete in for a little over 5k ($7/foot concrete $25/foot stabilizer (I think this might be sand, or moondust).

To add to the excitement of this post, I need to make my final offer on the house tonight, and this is the last sticking point!

Thanks again for everyone's sage advice, and getting me in the right track. Hopefully I will join you fellow pool owners soon!

Best,
Sean

- - - Updated - - -

Canton, Michigan (2 more weeks of summer before 9 months of Winter).

- - - Updated - - -

Kimdurg, do you mind if I ask what the cosmetic fix cost vs. what it would have if you were having the cement completely replaced?

 

[kimkats]

Good detective work! That is what I thought might have happened. That is why I was asking about the water level inside the pool.

Are you going to live in the house or flip it?

Kim

 

[kimmielea]

For approx 2500 sqft of 2 - 4" concrete overlay (I still say it was closer to 5 in some places) with a fiber mesh, it cost me $3500 (but I know the guy that owns the concrete company).

This is before, with the old coping... you can see the bottom right corner how much of a gap there was.


This is after the new coping... before the concrete and after an extremely heavy rainstorm, look at that gap!


And after... Much prettier, and no more floating liner!

 

[ultramegadon]

Wow, thanks again for the info everyone!
KimKat - I am living in the house, but I don't plan on staying much over 5 years, this is my 1st home. I initially was thinking I would just do the quick and dirty cosmetic job, but thinking about the next person to buy the house, I would not want to take any action that makes it tougher on them if they decided to do it right. Then I get into trouble with finding a number to cover some of my costs without scaring away the deal.
KimDurg - That looks really great for a finished product, and the cracking I see on the pool I'm looking at doesn't look as severe as what you were facing. It's good to know there is a cosmetic fix that has held up for at least a couple years.
I also got an extension on the inspection period so I can get a concrete company to take a look so I can get a quote to go after the homeowner with. It's a sellers market here, so I'm not sure what the sellers will be willing to work with me on price-wise, but I don't want to jump into a money pit either. Any thoughts from the peanut gallery?

 

[kimkats]

LOL we ended up staying in our "first" home for 16 years! We were happy there, the neighbors wonderful, paying it close to off, etc. It just worked out for us to stay there longer than the 5 yrs we had planned.

Just something to think about..........what do you want to do during those 5 (or more LOL) years? Swim in a pool that is safe????? Oh yeah!

Kim