Advice New Liner for an AGP with Deep End

[mpatrick14]

For anyone who has an above ground oval pool with a deep end

Has anyone ever ordered a vinyl liner custom cut for an in-ground pool to go in their AGP? I had such major issues with my expandable overlap liner basically leaking everywhere, and I have to replace it now.

I am having a hard time finding much more than a basic 20mil liner in plain blue, which is what i have now. Seems like the market for AGP's with deep ends is not that big I guess!!!

Anyway, I need help finding a new liner, and I have done a bunch of searches online, but would really like to hear from others who have been in my situation.

I have already had to drain over 30,000 gallons of water, and I am going to have to take half the pool apart to get more sand in to properly level the floor where the contractor screwed up. I do not want to have to do this again anytime soon, so I really want to get a good liner in there and get it right!

Any advice would be greatly appreciated!!!!

 

[mpatrick14]

Anyone? Bueller?

I have also heard good things about the Doughboy expandable liners, that they are much different from regular ones in that you actually set them about a foot from the bottom and let the material naturally stretch into the hold, greatly reducing folds and wrinkles. Anyone have any experience with them?

 

[Casey]

I am hoping you get the info you need! Good Luck! Are you doing the work yourself?

 

[amjohn]

Ours is a Doughboy overlap expandable liner, with deep end, but our pool is round, not oval. The principle is the same however. The liner is lightly draped just drooping over the pool frame, and then the water is added to expand it into place. However, our contractor also let down the edges gradually at the same time as it stretched. (see pictures below)
He was a Doughboy installer, so had lots of experience with the liners. He knew where he wanted the seams to end up, and used the pressure of the water combined with his own hands to let down the liner just right for the seams to drop right into place.
We got plain light blue, because as a new pool owner, I wanted to be able to see what was going on in the pool, not have any changes disguised by liner color and designs. That said, our next liner (hopefully not for many, many years) will be a colored one. Doughboy liners have a good warranty, and our installer said he had only had to warranty replace 2 liners in 5 years of installations, both times because of seam problems.
But they are expensive, probably some of the most expensive on the market I would guess. Partly because you have to buy them through an "approved" Doughboy dealer, know the secret handshake, etc. I have not found where you can just go on the internet and get them. The closest alternative that I know of is to get a Lomart liner- Doughboy's "entry level" brand. I have heard good things about Specialty Pool Products and they have the truly expandable Lomart liners. They are a little cheaper than having to deal with a local store. Here is one example: http://www.poolproducts.com/SPP/dept.as ... 915&FNM=90
We will consider them when the time comes (again, hopefully not for many years).
We do have a few minor wrinkles- our ground shifts dramatically, so the wrinkles move around- perfectly smooth is just not going to happen in ground like ours. The one thing our installer did that I did not catch: when he raked the sand before putting in the liner, he did not do a finally smoothing with a soft broom, so we have some rake marks where the liner sunk into the deeper grooves. They are slowly smoothing themselves out though as the ground moves around and will probably be almost gone by the 1 year point. They were never deep enough to hold up our Ranger suction side vacuum or keep from being cleanable, just enough to annoy me.

 

[budster]

Both Cantar and Pacific make A.G "expandable" liners. You can also (as you suggested) have one of the inground liner companies make one for you. You can get those in 27/20 mil, full 27 or even 30 mil. Cantar, Pacific, Tara, PenFab, Vynall, just a whole host of such. You WILL have to get a measurement form and submit it, though.

The Doughboy liners are quite good, but are normally designed for the Doughboy pool. Their liners often fit for a "shelf" at the bottom of the wall, that is a Doughboy exclusive feature.

 

[Cherie]

Ours is a Doughboy as well, 32x16 with 7' DE. We splurged and got the thickest, with print. A doughboy installer did the work and it's great so far - only had it done May 2008. The deep end has a 3' ledge all the way around. The installer got a little bit off on his positioning before the fill and thus, IMHO, he cut it a bit too close in the shallow end - there wasn't much left to tuck. But it's doing fine so far. Doughboy has a great warranty too.

 

[mpatrick14]

Thank you guys for the advice. I am going to have to do the work literally all by myself on this. There are very few people in Las Vegas who actually do anything with above ground pools, and most wont give you the time of day unless you are buying the actual pool from them. For example, the one company locally that said they could install my pool wanted over $10,000 for it. I found a contracter that said he had experience doing this that charges a reasonable price, but little did I know at the time he cut major corners and thats part of why the pool had to be drained and I have to replace the liner in the first place.

I have had the same experience with the Doughboy exclusivity you all speak of. There is one dealer in the city, and they won't even get a price quote for me on the liner, saying it is custom order for a pool my size. I will look into the lomart product.

I am already so frustrated I have to basically dismantle the pool and start over. If any of you have been following my issues for a while, you know it took me 16 months of looking just to find someone locally to install it the first time...

 

[amjohn]

It's scary with no experience, but now having seen the process, and taken lots and lots of photos with the intent doing our own installation in the future, I think (but don't hold me to this) that we could do our own liner install next time. We helped as much as we could, probably got more in the way than the installer liked, but it was worth the OTJ training. Our installer also had done some Lomart liners, and said they were just like Doughboy to install. The only difference was the skimmer installation from his end of the job. The way I found my installer was I called ABG pools stores all over looking into them for purchasing their pool, and asked for their installers number so that I could talk to them personally. The installer I went with worked part time for one of the companies in another county, but did his own work on the side in our county on his own time (as well as working full and overtime at a local chemical plant). It was not the fastest install in the world, but he did his job and we are satisfied with his work. You might try finding an installer that way.
Maybe Lomart can recommend some installers in your area also.
It is amazing that so many people are selling ABG pools, but so few are installing them. Though after having been (a very small) part of the installation crew for one, I can understand- they are work.

 

[Cherie]

mpatrick14, I still can't seem to lay my hands on our original paperwork. But when I find it, I will be happy to provide you with the name/number of our installer. I'm certain he told me of other states he'd installed in and he made the comment that he goes where the work is. He kinda does things on HIS schedule, but ultimately, we were happy with his job. I'll keep looking and try to post back here when I find him. I'll also check, on Monday, with Crown Pools and get his name/number from them.

 

[Casey]

mpatrick~

If I were closer to you location wise, I'd come over and help ya just because I'm that kinda person! I wish you well and hope you can find a way to get your pool set up to your standards! I know how hard it was for you to find someone and now this. You know, my daddy always said that if you want something done right, DO IT YOURSELF! I believe him!

Good Luck and keep us posted!

 

[Cherie]

mpatrick, you may want to give this guy a try. I know he told, during one of our many conversations, about an install he did out of state and I was surprised he would go that far. He told me he goes where the work is. Don't know how busy he is these days. But here's the #:

Jonathan Jackson
Impression Pool Deck
214-629-7665

 

[mpatrick14]

Thanks you guys! I have been looking at the Lomart products sold online, and it looks like Lomart only has ones that go from 6-6.5 ft, although it is only 1 liner, and it seems odd that they would say 6ft in so many places and then throw a 6.5 ft in. I would be scared of overstretching it and having to do this a third time. I may just have to settle for the 6 ft limit.

This gives me a headache just thinking about it! We only have 2 companies in Las Vegas that do AGP's, and I called the subcontracted installers for both of them with no luck at all. It is already starting to warm up and looking at my giant empty pool is so sad! Even worse, when it gets windy it sounds like a thunder storm in my backyard with the steel walls shaking. I have just been hoping the whole thing doesnt cave in.

I may give that guy in TX a call - I even tried to bribe someone the first time to come to Vegas and stay a few extra days on me, and that didn't even work! What a pain! If I go through all this and end up doing it myself only to have more issues, I will need to be comitted to a padded room....

 

[amjohn]

My pool installer from last year traveled- though the furthest that I know of him going is Oklahoma. However, in this economy, he may be open to a longer trip. I am not sure that he is still in the business (he promised his wife last year was the last year, but I think he did that every year), so I am not sure if he would appreciate my posting his number, but if you will PM me, I will give it to you. You can contact him, and if it does turn out he is still in the business and still traveling, then you may have another option there. He was a nice guy to work with, honest, patient with our constant pestering, but a talker. That may be good or bad depending on your personality.

 

[mpatrick14]

UPDATE: I ended up purchasing the Lomart expandable liner online. Expensive, but you get what you pay for hopefully. I amso found a local contractor to come and PROPERLY bring in 3 inches of mason's sand and level and compact it!

As a side note, I took the old liner out, and the ground was compacted so much that the plates were even sticking up from the ground around them. The good news is at least the ground is nice and compacted for the mason's sand. Hopefully this time the experience will be better!

Hope to be swimming again this time next week!

Thanks as always to everyone for their advice and support.

 

[mpiliero]

Ours is a Doughboy as well, 32x16 with 7' DE. We splurged and got the thickest, with print. A doughboy installer did the work and it's great so far - only had it done May 2008. The deep end has a 3' ledge all the way around. The installer got a little bit off on his positioning before the fill and thus, IMHO, he cut it a bit too close in the shallow end - there wasn't much left to tuck. But it's doing fine so far. Doughboy has a great warranty too.

Hello! I happened to come across your build thread and wanted to see if you were still on the site. We are considering similar pool and install and I was wondering if you might be willing to answer some follow up questionable. Thanks!