So our 36 X 18 above ground pool is under construction. The electrician just told us to get our electric heat pump we need to upgrade our electric line from 200 to 400 amp. The estimated cost of doing this is $4000 to $5000. If we change to a gas heater, we won't have to upgrade. What do you recommend we do? We wanted electric heat pump to save money on the gas bill. But with this extra cost, will we really be saving a whole lot in the long run? What are heat pump costs electric vs gas per month. We live in Tennessee. Thank you. We need to decide by tomorrow!
Upgrading Electric Meter from 200 to 400 amp
- Thread starter salina
- Start date
mgarf33
Well-known member
- Oct 27, 2013
- 207
Are you planning on other upgrades or just the heat pump?
What is the model of the heat pump?
What is the model of the heat pump?
We are still building the pool and were told we need to increase our amp from 200 to 400. The electric heat pump we were putting in is a Jandy. What are your thoughts?
mgarf33
Well-known member
- Oct 27, 2013
- 207
You could always get another electrician out for second opinion.
Expect to pay a modest fee if you're looking for detailed info.
Expect to pay a modest fee if you're looking for detailed info.
There are WAY too many variables on the electrical work to even make a guess here, but if that is the cost and if you have natural gas available I would strongly consider a gas heater. In my experience electrical quotes can be all over the place, I would get at least one more quote, maybe 2 or 3. To give you an example a few years ago I was dealing with something similar getting quotes to connect a backup generator that I had already purchased, 3 quotes ranged from $1,200 - $4,600 to do the exact same thing.
Does power come overhead or underground? Might have to upgrade the transformer too. I have a 400a panel and a 320a meter base.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N910A using Tapatalk
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N910A using Tapatalk
To know the answer to this we would need to see the load calculation he did on the house to determine this. I am not too familiar with heat pumps but I doubt there is one on the market for home pools that pulls upwards of 200 amps. what other big items does the house have on the system? ( AC Etc). how big is the house?
To know the costs comparisons of electric vs gas we would need to know the rates of each in your area. Generally, gas is cheaper to operate. However depending on where you live, some electric rates can be competitive.
To know the costs comparisons of electric vs gas we would need to know the rates of each in your area. Generally, gas is cheaper to operate. However depending on where you live, some electric rates can be competitive.
ewkearns
0
Another question is cost, after-the-fact. It was actually cheaper, per month, to add another 200A service to my workshop, rather than up one service to 400A. There is no reason for this other than the power company considers a 400A service on par with a 3-phase service with respect to gouging purposes....
It looks like Jandy Heat pumps pull 40-60Amps depending on model and have a Max of 127K BTU's.
JE Heat Pump
If you get a Gas fired heater they can go up to 3 times the BTU's giving you the ability to have it heat the pool faster and as others have said often Gas cost less to run
18 years ago i installed a oil fired heater as there is no gas available, not the best way to go but i felt better the Electric- If gas becomes available I' switch in a heartbeat
that being said if you stay with the Heat pump they idea of a second 200A service maybe a good choice if available
JE Heat Pump
If you get a Gas fired heater they can go up to 3 times the BTU's giving you the ability to have it heat the pool faster and as others have said often Gas cost less to run
18 years ago i installed a oil fired heater as there is no gas available, not the best way to go but i felt better the Electric- If gas becomes available I' switch in a heartbeat
that being said if you stay with the Heat pump they idea of a second 200A service maybe a good choice if available
mgarf33
Well-known member
- Oct 27, 2013
- 207
Even larger heat pumps can be sized for a #8 THWN circuit. The units only require :Jandy 137Mbtu 42A branch circuit and Hayward 140Mbtu a 36A branch circuit.
https://www.hayward-pool.com/pdf/literature/HeatPro-Brochure13.pdf
It's fairly simple to compare fuel consumption rates, if you know what model equipment and your local rates.
For heat pumps, COP rating is a direct multiple relationship to power vs electrical btuh value.
So, if 1kWh of electricity costs $0.12, your Hayward unit is rated at 6.0 COP, and your output is 140Mbtuh, then you can calculate
140,000/3412/6x0.12= $0.82 per hr of operation or per 140,000 btus.
Gas supplier btuh value may differ but average is 1030 btuh/cuft.
So, if 1CCF (100cuft) of gas costs $1.18, the unit efficiency is ~83%, and the input is 200Mbtuh.
So, 200,000/103,000 x 1.18 = $2.29 per hr of operation.
But wait, it's only 83% efficient so, 200,000 x .83 = 160,000btus output.
So, you paid $2.29 for 160,000 btus in an hr of operation.
So, cost wise, there is absolutely no comparison. Heat pump wins hands down 59% more efficient using my local utility cost. Of course this is rated at an 80°/80°/80% temp. So, efficiency will vary with water, outdoor air temp and relative humidity, but still not even close to a comparison.
Time it takes to heat the pool, a big + for gas because of the heating value available.
Edit, just noticed I was looking at specs from 2013.
Here are 2015 specs: http://www.hayward-pool.com/pdf/literature/heatpro-brochure-lithtpro15.pdf
So, your min amp circuit rating is 42A with the 2015 model. So, 50A circuit is plenty in either case, with a 60A breaker.
For those who may disagree, this is a multi motor load with internal overloads built in. Read Article 430 NEC, Circuit size is not rated the same as other loads.
https://www.hayward-pool.com/pdf/literature/HeatPro-Brochure13.pdf
It's fairly simple to compare fuel consumption rates, if you know what model equipment and your local rates.
For heat pumps, COP rating is a direct multiple relationship to power vs electrical btuh value.
So, if 1kWh of electricity costs $0.12, your Hayward unit is rated at 6.0 COP, and your output is 140Mbtuh, then you can calculate
140,000/3412/6x0.12= $0.82 per hr of operation or per 140,000 btus.
Gas supplier btuh value may differ but average is 1030 btuh/cuft.
So, if 1CCF (100cuft) of gas costs $1.18, the unit efficiency is ~83%, and the input is 200Mbtuh.
So, 200,000/103,000 x 1.18 = $2.29 per hr of operation.
But wait, it's only 83% efficient so, 200,000 x .83 = 160,000btus output.
So, you paid $2.29 for 160,000 btus in an hr of operation.
So, cost wise, there is absolutely no comparison. Heat pump wins hands down 59% more efficient using my local utility cost. Of course this is rated at an 80°/80°/80% temp. So, efficiency will vary with water, outdoor air temp and relative humidity, but still not even close to a comparison.
Time it takes to heat the pool, a big + for gas because of the heating value available.
Edit, just noticed I was looking at specs from 2013.
Here are 2015 specs: http://www.hayward-pool.com/pdf/literature/heatpro-brochure-lithtpro15.pdf
So, your min amp circuit rating is 42A with the 2015 model. So, 50A circuit is plenty in either case, with a 60A breaker.
For those who may disagree, this is a multi motor load with internal overloads built in. Read Article 430 NEC, Circuit size is not rated the same as other loads.