Pump losing prime, not fully primed when only using skimmer line. Trying to vac...

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MitchRyan912

MitchRyan912

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Jul 21, 2015
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Madison, WI
This thread is the closest I've found to what I've got going on, but it's not entirely it.

Dumb question about using a vacuum plate

I've noticed that whenever I shut off the valve to the vacuum line, that I see some air bubbles in the pump basket and they never entirely go away unless I open up the vacuum line. Running the vacuum line without the skimmer line is no problem, other than losing the skimmer (I usually do this when using the vacuum line to clean the pool.

The reason for this post is that I'd like to re-pipe the vacuum line such that it's a second return, and use the skimmer to vacuum, since my pool has incredibly crappy circulation. So far, I'm having NO luck using the skimmer to vacuum. Using a skimmer plate isn't working at all, and I'm getting a ton of air in the pump basket when I plug my hose directly into the bottom of the skimmer. Again, I've had no problems with this same hose when plugging it in to the vacuum line, so it's not the hose.

is it possible that I've got a slow/small leak somewhere between the skimmer and the shutoff valve? If there is, how would I go about tracking down where the leak is, short of digging up the pipes?
 
I've been having the same issue all summer. Finally, on the advice of my pool shop, I tried vacuuming NOT using the plate and sticking the hose directly into the hole in the skimmer - problem solved. No more sucking air while trying to vacuum. You might try the same thing. It seems that the vacuum hoses work best when the joint is submerged.
 
vacuum hoses work best when the joint is submerged.
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That should be the same with the vacuum port too. In fact, my vac port is more submerged with the vacuum line than it would be with the skimmer.
 
You can see the skimmer halfway down the wall along the side to the left of where I'm standing. As of right now, there's one return with a 1.5" 90 degree elbow screwed into it (the 90 is pictured, sitting on top of the coping, as I had a 45 degree elbow in there as well, to see which worked better), which aims toward the deep end and down slightly. There's no eyeball used.

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Eyeballs help to increase exit velocity which in turn helps reach further in the pool. Also, you want to keep the return aimed close to the surface so it moves the surface debris towards the skimmer. I would try a 3/4" or 1/2" eyeball aimed toward the opposite side of the pool and see if you can't get the surface water moving in a counter clockwise direction.
 

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No it doesn't matter if it is cw or ccw. But I would try a smaller eyeball directly in the port without a 90 so it shoots directly toward a the opposite wall. You may need to adjust the point slightly to get the circulation pattern you want.
 
How does shooting water across the shallow end generate circulation? Wouldn't it be preferable to have it shoot from shallow to deep?

So re-piping with an extra valve to turn the deep end vac line into a switchable line (either vac, off, or return) isn't needed?
 
If you are trying to clear debris on the opposite wall, you need to shoot water in that direction. It only needs to be at a slight angle to the opposite wall to start a circulation pattern. An eyeball allows for some adjustment. Also, the smaller eyeball will help as well.

So re-piping with an extra valve to turn the deep end vac line into a switchable line (either vac, off, or return) isn't needed?
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It may not so I just thought you might want to try something easier first.
 
Well, I already started the process of re-piping it Sunday night. Thankfully it can all be done at the pump, rather than digging up the lines running below the grassy side of the pool. I just didn't see how shooting across the short side of the pool with one return would generate any circulation.

Would it possible be better to shoot across the shallow end (we spend more time in there with the kids) and having the return angled somehow (to not push back against the shallow end return) help? I was originally going to put the 90/45 in the shallow end shooting towards the deep end and have the deep end return shoot across the deep end. Would it be 6 of one, half doze of the other?
 
I just didn't see how shooting across the short side of the pool with one return would generate any circulation.
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The water velocity out of a return slows the further away it gets so if the debris is collecting on the opposite side of the return, the most effective way of moving it is with a return pointed directly at it. Going the long way around loses energy and so may not move the debris as effectively.

Also putting in 90s slows the water velocity so although it changes the direction of the water, it also slows it down. But you might want to experiment with different configurations to see what works best.
 
So having two returns both pointed across the respective ends of the pool, in the same direction, would not be helpful... would it? If I added a return, it would almost have to have a 90 on it, right? Otherwise the return both shoot in the same direction.
 
So having two returns both pointed across the respective ends of the pool, in the same direction, would not be helpful... would it?
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Sure why not?

If I added a return, it would almost have to have a 90 on it, right?
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Not necessarily. You don't have to point returns parallel to the pool wall to get surface circulation. In fact, I found pointing a return that is close to a skimmer along the same wall will tend to push debris past the skimmer instead of into the skimmer. So sometimes you are better off just pointing the returns directly at the opposite wall. But both methods are completely valid ways of creating circulation. Which is best is dependent on the pool layout but you really won't know for sure until you try both.

My returns are pointed away from one wall toward another. Below is a video of a dye test I did a few weeks ago to test circulation. Note how the dye hits the opposite wall and then moves both around the edge of the pool back toward the originating wall creating multiple circulation patterns. No matter where the debris is located, it will eventually find it's way to a skimmer. This may also work for you but you won't know until you try it.



Circulation Dye Test
 

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