Become a TFP Supporter Pool Math Forum Rules Pool School
Results 1 to 18 of 18

Thread: IntelliFlo VS recommendations for the best efficiency

  1. Back To Top    #1
    schrody's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Fort Worth, TX
    Posts
    75

    IntelliFlo VS recommendations for the best efficiency

    Hopefully staying on topic as I have an IntelliFlo VS. Does anyone have recommendations for the best efficiency?

    i.e. Do you program it based on 2-3 turnovers per day (even though that results in a low filter PSI)? Or if you aim for a higher PSI based on your filter does it still save electricity when running at 400-600 Watts?
    12,000 gallons - IG - Vinyl
    IntelliFlo VF Pump
    Tagelus TA-60 Sand Filter

  2. Back To Top    #2
    spishex's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Hillsborough, NC
    Posts
    1,375

    Re: IntelliFlo VS recommendations for the best efficiency

    The motor itself is more efficient than a standard induction motor even at equivalent speeds, but the slower you move the water the more you'll save. You need to at least have enough water movement for the pool to circulate properly, your skimmer to function, etc., so that would probably mean a minimum of around 30 gpm which is already close to a 4 turnover/day rate for you.

    I'd start there and try going lower, but once the surface starts to stay dirty, you start noticing dead spots where algae show up despite proper chemistry, or the water just isn't filtering properly you'll know you've gone too far.

  3. Back To Top    #3
    JasonLion's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Silver Spring, MD
    Posts
    37,887

    Re: IntelliFlo VS recommendations for the best efficiency

    One solution is to run the pump on a very low speed most of the time, and then speed it up for short periods. Depending on what your timer/automation system can do you can either run on the higher speed for one hour a day, or better, run on the higher speed for 10 or 15 minutes every couple of hours.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

  4. Back To Top    #4

    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    San Rafael, CA USA
    Posts
    12,085

    Re: IntelliFlo VS recommendations for the best efficiency

    At some point, you'll run into the "fixed" energy used by the pump regardless of speed. I have an IntelliFlo VF pump, but I've tried different manual speeds and found the following where you can see that the lowest speed isn't necessarily that much more efficient when accounting for the time of one turnover. There is a flat spot near the slower speeds and the ideal may be anywhere in the 15-26 GPM range, though obviously this depends a lot on the specific plumbing. The runtime for one turnover is for my 16,000 gallon pool.

    15 GPM (17.78 hours), 1185 RPM, 155 Watts ---> 2.76 KWh
    18 GPM (14.81 hours), 1325 RPM, 195 Watts ---> 2.89 KWh
    24 GPM (11.11 hours), 1460 RPM, 255 Watts ---> 2.83 KWh
    26 GPM (10.26 hours), 1495 RPM, 275 Watts ---> 2.82 KWh (measured at different time so might be a little higher in reality)
    30 GPM (8.89 hours), 1805 RPM, 420 Watts ---> 3.73 KWh
    36 GPM (7.41 hours), 1975 RPM, 535 Watts ---> 3.96 KWh
    40 GPM (6.67 hours), 2075 RPM, 615 Watts ---> 4.10 KWh
    42 GPM (6.35 hours), 2160 RPM, 685 Watts ---> 4.35 KWh
    48 GPM (5.56 hours), 2310 RPM, 835 Watts ---> 4.64 KWh
    54 GPM (4.94 hours), 2490 RPM, 1030 W ---> 5.09 KWh
    60 GPM (4.44 hours), 2710 RPM, 1305 W ---> 5.79 KWh
    66 GPM (4.04 hours), 2900 RPM, 1590 W ---> 6.42 KWh
    72 GPM (3.70 hours), 3080 RPM, 1895 W ---> 7.01 KWh
    78 GPM (3.42 hours), 3360 RPM, 2495 W ---> 8.53 KWh

    I do notice that surface circulation and skimmer vortex suction isn't as efficient at lower speeds, so Jason has a good suggestion of doing a mix so that you can still get decent cleaning. Since I have a pool cover that tends to inhibit surface circulation anyway, I just have my non-solar flow set at 26 GPM. Usually, the solar is on 4-6 hours a day with its 48 GPM and the total cycle is 8 hours. The solar energy cost is far higher than shown above since the 48 GPM requires 2980 RPM and 1500 Watts.

    Richard
    16,000 gallon outdoor in-ground 16'x32' plaster pool; Pentair Intelliflo VF pump; Pentair IntelliTouch i9+3s control system; Jandy CL-340 square foot cartridge filter
    12 Fafco solar panels; Purex Triton PowerMax 250 natural gas heater (200,000 BTU/hr output); automatic electric pool safety cover; 4-wheel pressure-side "The Pool Cleaner"

  5. Back To Top    #5
    schrody's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Fort Worth, TX
    Posts
    75

    Re: IntelliFlo VS recommendations for the best efficiency

    Good information. Thanks! One thing you mention is it depends on the specific plumbing. Unfortunately they installed my pool with 1 1/2" PVC running between the pool and filter (it is a really old pool). I keep reading recommendations of 2" minimum.
    12,000 gallons - IG - Vinyl
    IntelliFlo VF Pump
    Tagelus TA-60 Sand Filter

  6. Back To Top    #6
    mas985's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Pleasanton, CA
    Posts
    9,918

    Re: IntelliFlo VS recommendations for the best efficiency

    1 1/2" may not be all bad depending on how the pool is plumbed. For example, if you have separate pipes from the main drains and skimmer, this has about the same head loss as a shared single 2" pipe. Same for the return side. Multiple smaller pipes can be just as effective if not more so than a single larger pipe.

    As for the efficiency of the Intelliflo, for most setups, the highest Gallons/Watt-hour seems to be around 1000 RPM. Below about 900 RPM, the efficiency starts to get worse again so the sweet spot is around 1000 RPM +-. But as Richard's data showed, low RPMs have a pretty low flow rate which might not work so well for skimming.
    Mark
    Hydraulics 101; Pump Ed 101; Pump and Pool Spreadsheets; Pump Run Time Study; DIY Acid Dosing; DIY Cover Roller
    18'x36' 20k plaster, 1/2 HP 2sp pump, Aqualogic PS8 SWCG, 420 sq-ft Cartridge, Solar, 6 jet spa, 1 HP jet pump, 400k BTU NG Heater

  7. Back To Top    #7
    schrody's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Fort Worth, TX
    Posts
    75

    Re: IntelliFlo VS recommendations for the best efficiency

    I'm pretty sure it's just one line. I have no knowledge of what is underground but the pool has one skimmer and a main drain and there is only one 1 1/2" suction line coming up and into the pump. There is a splitter on the return lines.

    The IntelliFlo is currently running at 650 W, 2220 RPM, 28 GPM which is only showing 10 psi at the filter.

    Edit: I have it running 23 hours/day and set to 3 cycles/day.
    12,000 gallons - IG - Vinyl
    IntelliFlo VF Pump
    Tagelus TA-60 Sand Filter

  8. Back To Top    #8
    mas985's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Pleasanton, CA
    Posts
    9,918

    Re: IntelliFlo VS recommendations for the best efficiency

    Based upon your operating point, I agree that you probably have single lines. The efficiency about 2.6 Gallons per Watt-hr. The peak efficiency of the Intelliflo is close to 12 Gallons per Watt-hr @ 1000 RPM with a well designed plumbing system so you are well off that. You might try to get closer to 1000 RPM to see if you can improve the efficiency some. Unfortunately, the flow rate will drop to about 13 GPM which may not be ideal for the skimmers.

    [EDIT] At 23 hours per day & 28 GPM, the pump is turning over the pool more than 3 times per day. Do you really need that?

    Also, how do you know it is running at 28 GPM?
    Mark
    Hydraulics 101; Pump Ed 101; Pump and Pool Spreadsheets; Pump Run Time Study; DIY Acid Dosing; DIY Cover Roller
    18'x36' 20k plaster, 1/2 HP 2sp pump, Aqualogic PS8 SWCG, 420 sq-ft Cartridge, Solar, 6 jet spa, 1 HP jet pump, 400k BTU NG Heater

  9. Back To Top    #9
    schrody's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Fort Worth, TX
    Posts
    75

    Re: IntelliFlo VS recommendations for the best efficiency

    Quote Originally Posted by mas985
    Also, how do you know it is running at 28 GPM?
    That is what the pump displays. If I press up or down while the pump is running it will cycle through Watts, RPM, GPM, and something about Filter %. The last I assume is a measure it uses to determine warning and alert messages for pressure increases.
    12,000 gallons - IG - Vinyl
    IntelliFlo VF Pump
    Tagelus TA-60 Sand Filter

  10. Back To Top    #10
    mas985's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Pleasanton, CA
    Posts
    9,918

    Re: IntelliFlo VS recommendations for the best efficiency

    So do you have the variable flow (VF) pump? The title and signature indicates the Intelliflo VS (variable speed).
    Mark
    Hydraulics 101; Pump Ed 101; Pump and Pool Spreadsheets; Pump Run Time Study; DIY Acid Dosing; DIY Cover Roller
    18'x36' 20k plaster, 1/2 HP 2sp pump, Aqualogic PS8 SWCG, 420 sq-ft Cartridge, Solar, 6 jet spa, 1 HP jet pump, 400k BTU NG Heater

  11. Back To Top    #11
    schrody's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Fort Worth, TX
    Posts
    75

    Re: IntelliFlo VS recommendations for the best efficiency

    After some research, I'm still confused. I see the models that say "IntelliFlo VF" and "IntelliFlo VS-3050" on the control panel but mine just says "IntelliFlo".

    I quoted "Variable Speed Pump" from the sticker and instruction manual. The manual can be found at http://www.pentairpool.com/pdfs/IntelliFloOm.pdf. The list of Pentair manuals can be found at http://www.pentairpool.com/techinfo/...3.php?d=2&s=42.
    12,000 gallons - IG - Vinyl
    IntelliFlo VF Pump
    Tagelus TA-60 Sand Filter

  12. Back To Top    #12
    schrody's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Fort Worth, TX
    Posts
    75

    Re: IntelliFlo VS recommendations for the best efficiency

    After looking at the VF and VS manuals...the features more closely resemble the VF. I still stand by the fact that the manual and sticker say "IntelliFlo" in bold and "Variable Speed Pump" underneath it. Maybe the thread title and my signature need updating? I'll await you're opinion on the matter.
    12,000 gallons - IG - Vinyl
    IntelliFlo VF Pump
    Tagelus TA-60 Sand Filter

  13. Back To Top    #13
    mas985's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Pleasanton, CA
    Posts
    9,918

    Re: IntelliFlo VS recommendations for the best efficiency

    As far as know, the variable speed (VS-3050) does not display flow rates which makes me think that you have a VF pump. But the real test is; do you set speed or do you set flow rate? The VS you can only set the speed and I thought that with the VF, you can only set flow rate.

    When you read the manual, it looks like to can set both speed and flow rate so my guess is that it is a version of the VF.

    [EDIT] After looking at the Pentair site, they do have a VS+SVRS which is stated to be a variable speed pump and it has a digital display. However, it doesn't look like you can set flow rates or even see them. So you probably have a VF.
    Mark
    Hydraulics 101; Pump Ed 101; Pump and Pool Spreadsheets; Pump Run Time Study; DIY Acid Dosing; DIY Cover Roller
    18'x36' 20k plaster, 1/2 HP 2sp pump, Aqualogic PS8 SWCG, 420 sq-ft Cartridge, Solar, 6 jet spa, 1 HP jet pump, 400k BTU NG Heater

  14. Back To Top    #14
    schrody's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Fort Worth, TX
    Posts
    75

    Re: IntelliFlo VS recommendations for the best efficiency

    For filter mode, I set: Clean Filter Pressure, Turnovers per day, Cycles per day, and start/stop times.
    12,000 gallons - IG - Vinyl
    IntelliFlo VF Pump
    Tagelus TA-60 Sand Filter

  15. Back To Top    #15

    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    San Rafael, CA USA
    Posts
    12,085

    Re: IntelliFlo VS recommendations for the best efficiency

    Check out manual mode and see if you can set either the speed (RPM) or the flow rate (GPM). That's what I can do with my IntelliFlo VF. With what you describe with filter mode, I'm 99% sure you have the variable flow model because turnovers per day and cycles per day (and presumably, size of pool in gallons entered somewhere) can only turn off the pump early if it knows the flow rate.

    Richard
    16,000 gallon outdoor in-ground 16'x32' plaster pool; Pentair Intelliflo VF pump; Pentair IntelliTouch i9+3s control system; Jandy CL-340 square foot cartridge filter
    12 Fafco solar panels; Purex Triton PowerMax 250 natural gas heater (200,000 BTU/hr output); automatic electric pool safety cover; 4-wheel pressure-side "The Pool Cleaner"

  16. Back To Top    #16
    schrody's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Fort Worth, TX
    Posts
    75

    Re: IntelliFlo VS recommendations for the best efficiency

    Yes, I can input speed or flow rate. Also entered pool size during configuration. Updated profile to show VF.

    I backed down to 2 turnovers but also shortened the run time to 10 hours. It is now running 1100 watts, 2660 rpm, and 48 gpm.

    A question for the wise: Should I back it down to one turnover and find an appropriate cycle time to achieve close to 1000 rpm? If I did that, I could also add a feature or two that would run at a higher flow rate for short amounts of time.

    Semi-unrelated I'm considering switching to cartridge because it's easier than changing sand and my filter valve is acting up again. I like the idea of not having to backwash and getting better filtration. Although the zeosand seems to be doing alright, I'm not sold on it.
    12,000 gallons - IG - Vinyl
    IntelliFlo VF Pump
    Tagelus TA-60 Sand Filter

  17. Back To Top    #17
    mas985's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Pleasanton, CA
    Posts
    9,918

    Re: IntelliFlo VS recommendations for the best efficiency

    If you make the run time 24 hours but keep the turnovers to 2, the RPM should drop to about 1100 and the GPM to 20. That should give you much better efficiency and will keep circulation going 24/7. You may still need a little higher speed for a few hours a day just to keep the leaves from sinking to the bottom.

    During the winter, you could easily get away with only 1 turn per day, assuming you don't close. I go down to 1/2 turn for most of the winter and the pool stays pretty clean. When water temp goes below 50, I reduce run time to 1/4 turn per day.

    As for the cartridge filter, if you go that route just make sure it is a big one. With your size pool, a 320 sq-ft filter would be more than big enough and you would only need to clean it once a year.
    Mark
    Hydraulics 101; Pump Ed 101; Pump and Pool Spreadsheets; Pump Run Time Study; DIY Acid Dosing; DIY Cover Roller
    18'x36' 20k plaster, 1/2 HP 2sp pump, Aqualogic PS8 SWCG, 420 sq-ft Cartridge, Solar, 6 jet spa, 1 HP jet pump, 400k BTU NG Heater

  18. Back To Top    #18
    schrody's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Fort Worth, TX
    Posts
    75

    Re: IntelliFlo VS recommendations for the best efficiency

    Set it for 12:00 AM - 11:50 PM (it doesn't seem to want to accept 24 hours) and started it up about 10:00 AM. It was running 1600 rpm and 18 gpm so I don't think I'll achieve 1100/20. I'll have to look again tomorrow to see what speed and flow are when it starts the cycle at the correct time.

    Thanks for all the help and suggestions...they are much appreciated!
    12,000 gallons - IG - Vinyl
    IntelliFlo VF Pump
    Tagelus TA-60 Sand Filter

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •