New Pool Owner - First Day Today

[DaninFLA]

if you are losing 3-3.5ppm in FC per day, what is your CYA? might want to bump it up, depending on its level

- - - Updated - - -

Been a good couple of days. I seem to have the FC levels in check and they are about what I expect whenever I test them. I haven't been really accurate with my chlorine additions - generally go in 1/2 jug increments by feel. 1 jug is good for about 5 ppm on my pool. My pool volume seems to be a bit higher than the initial estimate shown in my sig. I seem to lose about 3 to 3.5 FC during the day to sun. This thing gets blasted by the AZ sun until mid afternoon.

My pool cleaner (automatic) doesn't work very well. It's a Hayward Pool Vac Ultra and appears to have many years on it. It doesn't go up the sides at all and can't even get to the shallow end of the pool. I haven't decided if I want to throw parts at it or not. I may just get a manual vacuum for the near term as that will be easier than swimming to the bottom with the end of the hose and trying to suck stuff up.

The filter pressure is weird. When I start the pump, the pressure starts around 10. Then over about 4 hours it slowly rises to 15-17 then stabilizes. This is with 3/4 cup of DE in the filter. Is this normal? I back washed it last night before bed and it ran w/o DE overnight. It doesn't behave like that w/o DE in the filter. I'm going to experiment more with DE amounts.

the pressure rise could be normal if you have stuff in the water to filter out. but as far as adding the DE, you should check your pressure, then add a small amount of DE and re-check. you only want to add enough DE to raise your pressure by 1 psi. if you add 3/4 of a cup and your psi rises 1 psi after you add it, its the right amount. it will then climb as it collects stuff from the water and you will backwash when it hits 14 psi or so. if its raising more than 1 psi after adding it, you added too much.

 

[pooldv]

Do you have a bottom drain? When I don't feel like messing with the pool cleaner I net out the leaves, turn all suction to bottom drain and brush the pool to the drain.

Not sure about sand filter pressure behavior with and without DE, but that does seem to make sense to me.

What is your CYA? I would probably get it to 50 if it isn't.

You are becoming a pool pro in a hurry!

 

[Cinic]

CYA = 75 (rounded to 80). I've checked he CYA 3 times and got around 75 twice with one outlier of a higher number.

Yesterday, FC was 12.5 first thing in the AM and 9.5 in the afternoon after the sun was off the water. It was 110° yesterday w/o a cloud in the sky if that matters. Obviously 12.5 is well over the target FC for my CYA. Does that 'overage' cause the FC to be lost/used at a higher rate? I haven't been great about logging my testing. Just kind of adjusting daily as I go. I'm going get a log and leave it next to where I test. I like the idea of a spreadsheet or phone log - but I don't think I'd use it as often as a quick paper note.

The pressure rise is weird (to me anyway) because the pump would shut off with the pressure at 15. And then upon re-starting the next day it will be back down at 10. I will say it doesn't do that w/o the DE in the filter...at least not to that extent. And the 3/4 cup was enough to raise the pressure 1.0 psi immediately the first time I added it. It only raised it by 0.5 psi the second time. I'm going to mess around with DE some more when I have time. The DE addition did a great job polishing the water the first time around.

Thanks for all the input guys. I really appreciate it.

 

[DaninFLA]

yes, the higher your FC the more ppm loss. for a given CYA level, the percentage lost should be about the same. for example, say your FC loss from sun burn off is 20% (just a number I picked). if your FC level is at 15ppm, then you will lose 3ppm. if you were at 10ppm, you would lose 2ppm. you should be able to keep your FC at 10ppm in the morning and then be around 7-8ppm at the end of the day. no real harm in keeping it a bit higher, other than in your case when you FC level is about 10ppm you cant test pH. you will use a little more chlorine/bleach keeping them higher but still not too expensive. looks like you are losing roughly 25% per day?? don't raise your CYA any higher

just keep using the DE I guess, once you get your water pretty clear you shouldn't have to do it very often at all.

 

[robertmee]

Yes, the higher the FC, the more rapid the loss. It's a percentage loss. So let's say you lose 30% a day due to the sun. If your FC is 5 then you only lose 1.5. If your FC is 20, you lose 6 or 4x what you would lose at 5.

Edit: D'oh....quick draw McGraw ^

 

[DaninFLA]

Yes, the higher the FC, the more rapid the loss. It's a percentage loss. So let's say you lose 30% a day due to the sun. If your FC is 5 then you only lose 1.5. If your FC is 20, you lose 6 or 4x what you would lose at 5.

Edit: D'oh....quick draw McGraw ^

jinx! too slow

 

[Cinic]

Percentage loss makes sense. Thanks for that info. So the higher the CYA, the more chlorine you need daily to maintain your target levels.

FYI - I inherited this CYA level when we bought the house. At this point I anticipate doing a partial drain to lower the CYA after the swim season is over.

 

[pooldv]

These guys have got you covered on the FC loss. I use a paper log and then input into a google sheet every now and then. Since moving from a spreadsheet to a google sheet I input the numbers more often directly now that I can access from phone, tab, etc.

 

[DaninFLA]

Percentage loss makes sense. Thanks for that info. So the higher the CYA, the more chlorine you need daily to maintain your target levels.

.

well, that's not entirely correct. the higher your CYA, the less percent of FC you lose to sunlight, however if you go way too high, then your target FC gets too high and that can cause more loss (in ppm), but will still be less percentage wise but what you are worried about is ppm since that determines how much bleach you need to raise, etc. so basically if you keep your CYA too low, you are going to lose too much FC to sunlight. if you keep it too high you are going to lose too many ppm due to the higher level even though the percentage is less. its all about finding the sweet spot, and one of the reasons for the recommended CYA levels for manually dosed pools. that's the sweet spot.

 

[Newpoolcrazy]

Not only are these guys good, they're fast!

 

[Cinic]

View attachment 40579

In the photo above - does anyone know what that white box is at the very top/right? I know the picture isn't good and doesn't show the whole thing. On the not shown right side of that box there's some sort of connector that looks like it's for tubing. I'll get better pic later. As you can see, it's plugged into the timer box.

There are a couple ports plugged (horribly with bolts) - one on top of the filter and one on the output pipe tee.

Was this some sort of water testing for chlorine delivery box?

I'm hoping someone can recognize it before I go tearing into the thing.

Pool maintenance is going well. The water level was up way to high - just above the skimmer opening so the skimmer wasn't doing any skimming. So I adjusted the auto filler height. Now it skims better. Another side effect is that the black stuff just above the waterline is dying off on it's own. The water being farther away must make the conditions too dry for it or something. Bad part is that is additionally exposing a lot of scaling. This pool must have had some horrible water conditions at some point.

I'm also pretty resigned to the fact that I need to drain a chunk of this pool to get the CYA down. The sun just eats so much chlorine at this level.

 

[pooldv]

I can't tell from the pic.

 

[Cinic]

I can't tell from the pic.

I just tracked down a 1 sheet from the builder and the pool was originally installed with an ozonator. That has to be what it was/is.

 

[kimkats]

Not worth the time to do anything other than remove to clean up the area. LOL

Kim

 

[Cinic]

Hah! That's what my brief bit of research yesterday told me.

The wiring/electrical in the equipment area needs work. I'll make removal of that box part of the cleanup.

 

[Mike1162]

Just found this thread. I also have a Hayward Ultra Vac. Its not the greatest vac but with a little work I think you'll find it adequate. If you direct more of the suction towards it and replace the feet (they have specific feet for vinyl or concrete) it'll zip around the pool at a good pace & climb the walls. If it still isn't covering most of the pool then you'll need to completely disassemble it & clean out all the debris that will get stuck in there. You'll find a little box in there with a set of gears, it doesn't take much to jam the gears. Take some pics as you take it apart & you shouldn't have any trouble reassembling.

 

[Cinic]

Much appreciated Mike. In my communications with Hayward, they've tossed a few parts my way including the feet. I've had the bottom off with the first (4) screws, but haven't dug in any deeper than that. I'll get the thing fully cleaned out and the new feet installed and see how it reacts.

 

[Cinic]

Well I went out this morning to take out the trash and do my morning pool check. Pump sounded funny and the pressure was all over the place. Looked down and there's all sorts of air in the pump basket. There was some sort of vacuum leak in the pool cleaner hose or leaf catcher that was inhaling air. I didn't have time to diagnose exact location so I adjusted the Jandy valve to turn off the cleaner port so the pump could finish it's cycle.

You know - I *think* the leak may have been coming from my Hayward Leaf Catcher in vacuum line. The o-ring in that thing made the lid almost impossible to remove. But once I cleaned and lubed it up, it was great. Until it started feeling loose. Anyone have any input on the potential of lubing an o-ring causing shrinkage? I wonder if it had swelled over the years and been abraded away. Then once the proper lube went on perhaps the swelling went down and the o ring was then to small to seal? Who knows - I just ordered a new o ring from Amazon so we'll see.

 

[Cinic]

New o-ring seals the leaf catcher. I used the hose with my new manual vacuum last night while my cleaner is out of service. Surprised how much stuff that thing picked up - just in the leaf catcher. Lot's of sand and pebbles along with the leaves and such. Stuff you can't really see with the pebble tec surface.