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Thread: Paver Installation

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    Paver Installation

    Hello
    we had a large steel wall pool installed last summer and are planning to have a patio installed. We are going with pavers but hear conflicting ways of installing them. We live on Long Island NY so I waited to go through the winter for the ground to settle, which it surely did. I am going towards putting the pavers over poured concrete at least 4' out from the pool and the larger area may be put on crushed stone. I'm told the concrete slab will bridge between the coping shelf and the undisturbed soil. Problem is that all the paver manufacturers recommend putting them on crushed stone. I would appreciate any thoughts so I can avoid an argument with the boss (my wife) She says crushed stone.
    In addition we have a salt water pool if that matters





    Thank you
    Tom

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    Re: Paver Installation

    I have pavers around my pool. Most of the pavers were placed over crushed concrete. However we also have an existing patio which has a concrete slab. Pavers were placed over this concrete slab also. The end result, you really can not tell where there is concrete slab and were there is crushed concrete. I believe that the crushed concrete would be less expensive. You will also need under deck drains. Both the concrete and the crushed concrete is relatively impermeable to water, so you need drains to prevent flooding during rains.
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    Re: Paver Installation

    I hope your pool wasn't backfilled with dirt. It almost inevitably settles. Usually sand or crushed rock is used.

    Whatever kind of deck you put in, don't neglect a bonding grid. We have a member here who has problems with electrical shocks from an unbonded paver deck, and numerous folks who experience the same thing with unbonded concrete decks. If you pour concrete and bond it, you can probably put pavers over the top and be fine. Bonding is an electrical connection of the walls of the pool and anything metal that is within 5ft of the pool. Very, very difficult to correct after the deck is installed. Easy to do before you install it.
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    Re: Paver Installation

    Thanks for the replies. I'm still confused as to which way to go however. I'll keep the deck bonding in mind.
    Thanks
    Tom

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    Re: Paver Installation

    There would be little doubt in my mind to go with crushed stone underneath the pavers. Simply, it is a more forgiving installation.

    If your dirt continues to settle (it will) the pavers will ride with it and if it settles too much you can simply lift off the pavers and put in more crushed stone.

    Cheaper and more suited to your installation.

    About the only disadvantage is that grass and weeds will attempt to get thru the crushed stone but it's so very little, it is quite controllable.
    Dave S. - Forum owner
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    Re: Paver Installation

    You can avoid the grasses and weeds growing by placing black polyethelene film down before spreading the gravel. Or you can use Gator Dust (a polymeric sand) between the pavers instead of sand.
    11,000 gal + overflow spa, IG gunnite, Pentair 48FNS DE filter, Hayward SP3210X15 pump, CompuPool CPSC36 Chlorine generator, pool valet w/5 zones, Pentair LP heater

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    Re: Paver Installation

    I second the polymeric sand. Its self healing and wont wash away. Ants do not like it as much either.
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    Re: Paver Installation

    Hi , I'm a concrete contractor from minnesota, all we do are pool decks, all our pavers are on concrete. The reason is simple , once you pour the concrete base all slop to grade is done no need for drains , we use rebar in our concrete which make it self supporting so even if the soil settles your deck will carry any weight you put on it , no bugs , no drainage problems, no movement, no weeds. they make a 25 mil paver so your cost is less. call me I can better explain on the phone 763-421-1736 Brad

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    Re: Paver Installation

    Quote Originally Posted by sandybeach
    Hi , I'm a concrete contractor from minnesota, all we do are pool decks, all our pavers are on concrete. The reason is simple , once you pour the concrete base all slop to grade is done no need for drains , we use rebar in our concrete which make it self supporting so even if the soil settles your deck will carry any weight you put on it , no bugs , no drainage problems, no movement, no weeds. they make a 25 mil paver so your cost is less. call me I can better explain on the phone 763-421-1736 Brad
    Good to know.. I am in MN and may need some concrete work around my pool.
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    Re: Paver Installation

    "Crush & run" is a popular base for pavers in my region. If you are using "driveway" type pavers, you are good to go with all above. If you are using a Travertine or the expensive-but-excellent Artistic pavers, you might want to not use a concrete base. These types of "pavers" are not the same.
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    Re: Paver Installation

    I'd like to say HI to Brad and welcome him to TFP!!

    Brad, do you do all kinds of pool decks or just pavers? It'd be great to have an expert on decks here 8) (there have been quite a few questions on 'cool decks', cleaning concrete decks, etc that I can't answer, though I have to walk on them to get to the pool . Do you have your own pool, if so show us some pics or tell us a little about it .

    Budster, a small note on terminology, "crush and run" sounds ~phonetically correct but it's actually "crusher run" (at the gravel pit they have big rock crushers that 'grind' the stone to the various grades -like #57 or 3/4" gravel - the "run" is the finer stuff that they collect after making, screening and rinsing the freshly crushed stones ) (I'm telling you this out of friendship, not trying to pick on you - when I worked up in NH, I referred to the board used to level the concrete in a poured pad as a "screet" board and caught a LOT of flack [ ] from my co-workers because the proper name is a "screed" board - I just didn't want you to ever run into ignorant folks like that who will pile '****' on you for using a close sounding, but incorrect, term )
    Luv& Luk
    -Ted

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    Re: Paver Installation

    I had just asked the contractor about putting the polymeric sand between the joints. His answer was he did not recommend it because it doesn't let the water drain though. Is he trying to just blow it off or is he correct?? He also stated weeds will only grow IF dirt is dropped onto patio as it would not grow up from the bottom
    Tom

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    Re: Paver Installation

    He's full of bull
    I have a section I did last year to see how this stuff works. Water does not pool on it. Plants do not grow through it. I also have two other experimental sections, one with sand and one with pea gravel. Water doesn't pool on them.....but plants grown in each of them. I will be finishing the entire area (flagstone) with Gator Dust this summer.

    Weeds grow because seeds are dropped/blown etc. from the top. They only need a rooting base.

    Sheesh, we used sand for a plant medium in third grade....guess your contractor only got to second.
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    Re: Paver Installation

    OK thanks I'll tell him to go with it the polymeric that is
    Tom

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    Re: Paver Installation

    Installation didn't go so well
    It seems these guys have never used polymer sand or read the directions on the bag. Here in NY today it was drizzling on and off so the pavers for the most part were wet before or just after the sand was put down. They also used a stream of water from the hose to remove the "soapy water" from the pavers. I read it should been only a mist of water. They were also walking on them afterward. Guess they are accustomed to working with regular sand. What do I look for now, I already see some joints do not have enough sand in them. Anything else??
    Not happy
    Tom

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    Re: Paver Installation

    Quote Originally Posted by tpm
    Installation didn't go so well
    It seems these guys have never used polymer sand or read the directions on the bag. Here in NY today it was drizzling on and off so the pavers for the most part were wet before or just after the sand was put down. They also used a stream of water from the hose to remove the "soapy water" from the pavers. I read it should been only a mist of water. They were also walking on them afterward. Guess they are accustomed to working with regular sand. What do I look for now, I already see some joints do not have enough sand in them. Anything else??
    Not happy
    Thats not soapy water , thats the glue {polymer]! Every part of the job has to be dry, the sand base , paver , broom you use to sweep the sand into the joints. even if the sand base looks dry ,give as much time as you can , because the pavers will weep water from the soil. thats another reason we use concrete , once its cured completly than you can install your paver with out worry of water weeping from below. you can waite until everything drys out and sweep more sand into your joints, when your done dont wash the pavers off just mist them and watch the white glue flow into your joints. after some good weather and all the miosture is gone you should use a good sealer on your pavers, we use super diamond clear for a wet shine look. dont put it on when its wet or it will dry white. dont panic if it does another coat of sealer will bring it back to shine good luck Brad

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    Re: Paver Installation

    Quote Originally Posted by waste
    I'd like to say HI to Brad and welcome him to TFP!!
    Thanks for the welcome, we do anything with concrete, paver exposed agg, color stamp,Ill try and get pics of our pool on here this weekend . any help I can be just ask Brad
    Brad, do you do all kinds of pool decks or just pavers? It'd be great to have an expert on decks here 8) (there have been quite a few questions on 'cool decks', cleaning concrete decks, etc that I can't answer, though I have to walk on them to get to the pool . Do you have your own pool, if so show us some pics or tell us a little about it .

    Budster, a small note on terminology, "crush and run" sounds ~phonetically correct but it's actually "crusher run" (at the gravel pit they have big rock crushers that 'grind' the stone to the various grades -like #57 or 3/4" gravel - the "run" is the finer stuff that they collect after making, screening and rinsing the freshly crushed stones ) (I'm telling you this out of friendship, not trying to pick on you - when I worked up in NH, I referred to the board used to level the concrete in a poured pad as a "screet" board and caught a LOT of flack [ ] from my co-workers because the proper name is a "screed" board - I just didn't want you to ever run into ignorant folks like that who will pile '****' on you for using a close sounding, but incorrect, term )

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    Re: Paver Installation

    Budster, a small note on terminology, "crush and run" sounds ~phonetically correct but it's actually "crusher run" (at the gravel pit they have big rock crushers that 'grind' the stone to the various grades -like #57 or 3/4" gravel - the "run" is the finer stuff that they collect after making, screening and rinsing the freshly crushed stones ) (I'm telling you this out of friendship, not trying to pick on you - when I worked up in NH, I referred to the board used to level the concrete in a poured pad as a "screet" board and caught a LOT of flack [ ] from my co-workers because the proper name is a "screed" board - I just didn't want you to ever run into ignorant folks like that who will pile '****' on you for using a close sounding, but incorrect, term )
    Well, Ted, Here in the South (The cultural center of the US) it is "Crush and run". As Budster will tell you, we "Crush" a little rock, and then "run" to the store for some more beer......it's almost impossible to make a uniform mix without the beer.....but don't get the notion we mix it with the rock, tho.

    Shoot, Ted, ya'll up there probably think when we "carry" someone to work, we're not givin' 'em a ride in the car!!
    Dave S. - Forum owner
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    Re: Paver Installation

    Heck, Dave ol' boy, twas in Va, that I heard the term 'screet' board - It was those fast talkin' New Hampsterites that gave me gruff about it being a 'screed' board

    Were it up to me, I'd be down there in the 'cultural center of the US', however , the wife wants to stay close to her family in NY, Mass, and Maine

    I HOPE I made it clear that I wasn't trying to pick on nor poke fun at Budster, only trying to keep him from catching the same '****' I caught for a similar 'indiscretion'

    Dave, do you play golf? I'm overdue to see my father in ~ Wilmington, I'd love to hook up with you, drink a few beers, talk pools and loose some golf balls to whatever water hazard (I know water isn't magnetic, but try explaining that to any golfball I hit )
    Luv& Luk
    -Ted

    Having done construction and service for 4 pool companies in 4 states starting in 1988, what I know about pools could fill a couple of books - what I don't know could fill a couple of libraries :-D

    POOL SCHOOL, TF Testkits, Jason's Pool Calculator, CYA vs. cl chart, (Just a few DARNED handy links!)

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    Re: Paver Installation

    Quote Originally Posted by tpm
    Installation didn't go so well
    It seems these guys have never used polymer sand or read the directions on the bag. Here in NY today it was drizzling on and off so the pavers for the most part were wet before or just after the sand was put down. They also used a stream of water from the hose to remove the "soapy water" from the pavers. I read it should been only a mist of water. They were also walking on them afterward. Guess they are accustomed to working with regular sand. What do I look for now, I already see some joints do not have enough sand in them. Anything else??
    Not happy
    Hmmm, no wonder they were steering you away
    It will clean up as sandybeach said. I had some damp stones when I first put some dust in and freaked out when everything went white. But it cleared up with a mist and a broom. But next time, I will make dang sure things are COMPLETELY DRY.
    11,000 gal + overflow spa, IG gunnite, Pentair 48FNS DE filter, Hayward SP3210X15 pump, CompuPool CPSC36 Chlorine generator, pool valet w/5 zones, Pentair LP heater

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