GFCI Breaker Issue on Pentair EasyTouch Load Center

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S

SlowRocker

0
Mar 14, 2015
95
Parker, CO
Hey Folks!

I’m installing a dedicated receptacle for a low voltage transformer for landscape lighting, and connecting it to an EasyTouch subpanel to control the lights. I have everything connected and the breaker keeps tripping when I plug anything in. It seems to be fine if nothing is plugged in. Can anyone help me figure out what’s going on?

This is what I have connected:

1) 20 Amp Siemens GFCI breaker with 12AWG wire to the subpanel relay (line) connection.
2) 12AWG wire from the relay (load) connection to the receptacle.
3) Ground wire (12AWG) from ground buss bar to ground connection on the receptacle.
4) Neutral wire from the breaker to the neutral buss bar.
5) Neutral wire (12AWG) from the neutral buss bar to the neutral connection on the receptacle (wasn’t so sure on this one).

Could the two neutrals connecting to the neutral buss bar be the issue? Should I run the receptacle neutral into the breaker neutral connection instead?

I’ve done simple wiring connections around the house and I thought this would be relatively easy. Guess not. Pentair’s manual was no help so I’m hoping someone out there can.

Thanks in advance to anyone offering suggestions!
 
Bama has you covered on this. load neutral has to be on the breaker terminal. The GFCI is looking for it to monitor current flow. Without it, the breaker sees the hot current going out but has nothing coming back to compare to.
 
If the neutral bar in the EasyTouch is connected to the neutral terminal on the breaker, I don't understand how connecting the receptacle to the EasyTouch neutral bar is electrically different than connecting the receptacle directly to the breaker's neutral terminal.


Code: 
|          |--------(N)---------|          |--------(N)-------|          |
| Breaker  |                    |EasyTouch |                  |Receptacle|
|          |--------(L)---------|          |--------(L)-------|          |

versus

Code: 
                               ______________
                              /              \
|          |--------(N)------/  |          |  \-----(N)-------|          |
| Breaker  |                    |EasyTouch |                  |Receptacle|
|          |--------(L)---------|          |--------(L)-------|          |
 
sbcpool said:
If the neutral bar in the EasyTouch is connected to the neutral terminal on the breaker, I don't understand how connecting the receptacle to the EasyTouch neutral bar is electrically different than connecting the receptacle directly to the breaker's neutral terminal.
Click to expand...
It's complicated, but suffice it to say that's how it's designed.
 

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sbcpool said:
The only thing I can think of off the top of my head is that the EasyTouch has bonded the neutral and ground, but I can't think of why in the world they would do that.
Click to expand...

It's not. The ET panel is set up like any other subpanel. The neutral bus and ground bus arent bonded together.

A GFCI breaker in the ET box works like a GFCI breaker in the main would. The neutral from the load (outlet) is connected to the GFCI breaker. The little curly-Q white pigtail off the breaker is connected to the neutral bus.
Like Bama said, how a GFCI breaker works is a little complicated to type out here.
if your interested how it work, Google will give you the info :goodjob:
 
bk406 said:
It's not. The ET panel is set up like any other subpanel. The neutral bus and ground bus arent bonded together.

A GFCI breaker in the ET box works like a GFCI breaker in the main would. The neutral from the load (outlet) is connected to the GFCI breaker. The little curly-Q white pigtail off the breaker is connected to the neutral bus.
Like Bama said, how a GFCI breaker works is a little complicated to type out here.
if your interested how it work, Google will give you the info :goodjob:
Click to expand...

I thought the OP said he wired the outlet directly to the neutral bar in the EasyTouch and not to a GFI breaker. I'm not confused about how a GFI works, I'm confused about where the current is going when the EasyTouch neutral bar is in the circuit to cause the main panel's GFI to trip. Unless the EasyTouch is creating a ground fault, it shouldn't trip the GFI at the main panel.
 
As I posted earlier, the GFCI breaker needs a neutral reference to monitor current flow. The hot wire connected to the load (motor) gets current from the breaker. If the return voltage goes directly to the neutral bar, the breaker never sees the return current. If it can't see the current coming back it assumes it went somewhere else and turns the circuit off. The neutral pigtail on the breaker is not connected to the neutral wire terminal on the breaker directly. There is some circuitry involved between the two. This circuitry is what is looking for the current imbalance between the hot and neutral (usually 4-6 MV) When the current imbalance is below that threshold, the circuitry keeps both the hot and the neutral connections in a closed state and allows the current to flow.

Item number 5 in the original post is where the problem was. He bypassed the GFCI with the neutral conductor from the receptacle and went straight to the neutral bar.
 
sbcpool said:
I thought the OP said he wired the outlet directly to the neutral bar in the EasyTouch and not to a GFI breaker. .
Click to expand...

He did. And thats why it tripped. The neutral from the load HAS to be connected to the GFCI breaker. The only neutral on a GFCI breaker that goes to the bus is the curly Q from the breaker. If a neutral is run directly to the bus from the load, even if the curly -Q is attached as well, it'll trip.
 
bk406 said:
He did. And thats why it tripped. The neutral from the load HAS to be connected to the GFCI breaker. The only neutral on a GFCI breaker that goes to the bus is the curly Q from the breaker. If a neutral is run directly to the bus from the load, even if the curly -Q is attached as well, it'll trip.
Click to expand...

I thought he was saying the GFI on the main breaker was tripping, not the GFI in the EasyTouch.
 
danpik said:
As I posted earlier, the GFCI breaker needs a neutral reference to monitor current flow. The hot wire connected to the load (motor) gets current from the breaker. If the return voltage goes directly to the neutral bar, the breaker never sees the return current. If it can't see the current coming back it assumes it went somewhere else and turns the circuit off. The neutral pigtail on the breaker is not connected to the neutral wire terminal on the breaker directly. There is some circuitry involved between the two. This circuitry is what is looking for the current imbalance between the hot and neutral (usually 4-6 MV) When the current imbalance is below that threshold, the circuitry keeps both the hot and the neutral connections in a closed state and allows the current to flow.
Click to expand...

Exactly correct. And if the neutral bar in the EasyTouch is wired to the neutral terminal on the GFI breaker at the main panel, where is the current leaking to cause the GFI in the main panel to trip? It has to be at the EasyTouch.
 
bk406 said:
Not the way i read it. He has a 40 amp dipole feeding the ET box.

There is no GFI breaker on the OP's main.
Click to expand...

When I read "20 Amp Siemens GFCI breaker with 12AWG wire to the subpanel relay (line) connection" that lead me to picture a GFI breaker on the main wired to the line connection on the ET, but now I see it's ambiguous and could be read either way (GFI breaker in the ET wired to the main, or GFI breaker in the main wired to the ET).
 
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