Another Cloudy Pool

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Josh61513

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Jul 20, 2015
11
Central Michigan
Been following TFP/poolforum.com for the last year with generally good results. Opened the pool late this year (2 weeks ago). Had some leaves on the bottom, a green-ish hue but clear water. We vacuumed the bottom, added several gallons of chlorine and some small tablets to the skimmer, fired up the pump/filter, and haven't been able to get it to clear.

33' round above ground with liner. ~25k gallons.

Have a Taylor K-2006 kit:
FC: 5
CC: 0
Ph: 7.0
TA: 130
CH: 30
CYA: ~20-30


A couple oddities:

The return nozzle came off over the winter and fell into the pool. Can't see the bottom right now to fish it out, so I just installed a new one today. Aimed it up to aerate, hoping this helps bring the Ph up since the TA seems to be plenty high.

I just added 4 lbs. of CYA. It measured less than 20 when we opened. I added it to the water instead of the skimmer because we have been back-washing regularly. That's why I'm estimating 20-30 ppm right now, I'll test it again in a few days.

I had trouble last year and this year both with green stuff occasionally coming out of the return jet when vacuuming so I was suspicious of the sand filter. I dumped the old sand, took the legs apart and cleaned it out really well, didn't find any cracks. Replaced it with the required 200 lbs. of pool sand from the local pool store. New sand seems finer than what was in it before which seemed like a step in the right direction, but I've still seen the green stuff shoot in during vacuuming. Back-wash then and it seems to be OK again.

CH is very low, does that matter at all with a vinyl pool?

Should I try a SLAM?? CC is 0 which surprised me. Spiked the chlorine to 10 this past weekend but it has drifted back down to 5 today. Still cloudy blue water.

Thanks,
Josh
 
Welcome to the forum!

I would suggest a SLAM. It should go rather quickly I imagine. Just don't fail to complete it as per the procedure. With 130 TA, the pH should come up on its own with just a little time. Don't worry about the CH in your vinyl pool.
 
Thanks for the feedback Patrick.

Started the SLAM last night @ 9pm. FC was at 9, added most of a 12.5% gallon and got it up to 12.5. CC still 0. Ph still very low per the test, not sure if the high FC influences that?

Checked the water this morning at 8 am, FC was at 10 ppm. Added a gallon of 12.5% which should bring it up to ~14 ppm. Water looked roughly the same, maybe a smidge more clear. I backwashed the filter. The sight-glass was a bit milky but not terrible, filter pressure was only ~0.5 psi higher than when clean.
 
Very frustrated! Pool doesn't seem to be getting more clear whatsoever. Vacuumed the bottom yesterday (though hard to do since you can't see more than ~1 foot below the water). Pool doesn't burn a crazy amount of FC overnight-~1.5, but I didn't bother testing last night and this morning since it's so cloudy!

I did just have a thought-the previous owner used the pool frog system. I've used some chlorine tablets from time to time but never replaced the mineral pack. The mineral pack is probably 3 years old. In a bit of a freak-out moment I yanked the empty chlorine tablet holder and mineral pack out of the pool frog. Could the pool be full of copper, causing it to cloud worse from the chlorine?? Should I try a sequestrant product?? I'm open for any ideas!

Tested the CYA and it did increase to about 40, so I'm keeping the FC between 15-20. 0 improvement. Water is clean, blue, but so cloudy I can't see the liner 18" down.
 
More information:

I've always questioned the pump/filter setup on the pool (previous owners installed). I've seen "green stuff" come back into the pool on a few occasions, as I mentioned above. Just replaced the sand and completed cleaned the whole filter tank and laterals.

The pump is 1 1/2 HP, single speed, "70 GPM". The filter is a sand filter, Hayward SwimPro. Effective filtration area 2.53 ft2, filtration rate 25 GPM/ft2, filter & backwash design flow rate 63 gpm. I believe you would multiply 2.53 * 25=63.25 GPM to find the capacity of the filter. Seems like you would want to stay under that, and my current 1 1/2 HP 70 GPM pump is a bit too large? Is that correct?

The pool is 33' round, 4' deep, so I come up with 25,600 gallons. At 70 GPM I currently turn the water over in (25,600/70 GPM/60 minute/hr)=6.1 hours. I *think* I could either upsize the filter or downsize the pump.

Also, the pool only has one skimmer and one return line. Theres a LOT of water coming out of the return jet. Clean filter pressure is 15 psi on the filter gauge. Lines are short but 1 1/2". If TFP agrees my pump is too large for my filter, I'm leaning toward downsizing the pump to 50-60 GPM. Might save me some electricity too!
 
Oversize pump not clearing cloudy pool?

I posted in the TPF method forum (http://www.troublefreepool.com/threads/101647-Another-Cloudy-Pool), but I haven't got much feedback. Basically, after opening the pool late this year, vacuumed the pool and started a SLAM but haven't been able to clear the cloudiness. I've been questioning the pump/filter ever since we moved in:

I've seen "green stuff" come back into the pool on a few occasions. Just replaced the sand and completely cleaned the whole filter tank and laterals.

The pump is 1 1/2 HP, single speed, "70 GPM". The filter is a 21" sand filter, holds 200 lbs. of sand, Hayward SwimPro. Effective filtration area 2.53 ft2, filtration rate 25 GPM/ft2, filter & backwash design flow rate 63 gpm. I believe you would multiply 2.53 * 25=63.25 GPM to find the capacity of the filter. Seems like you would want to stay under that, and my current 1 1/2 HP 70 GPM pump is a bit too large? Is that correct?

The pool is a very large 33' round, 4' deep, so I come up with 25,600 gallons. At 70 GPM I currently turn the water over in (25,600/70 GPM/60 minute/hr)=6.1 hours. I *think* I could either upsize the filter or downsize the pump to improve filtering?

Also, the pool only has one skimmer and one return line. There's a LOT of water coming out of the return jet. Clean filter pressure is 15 psi on the filter gauge. Lines are short but 1 1/2". If TFP agrees my pump is too large for my filter, I'm leaning toward downsizing the pump to 50-60 GPM 2-speed. Might save me some electricity too!

*edit* I picked up a 1 1/2 HP 2-speed pump yesterday for $229, but now I'm debating returning it and looking for a 2-speed 1 HP pump, and possibly a larger sand filter.
Any thoughts? Could this be the reason my pool won't clear up?? Thanks in advance!
 

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Re: Oversize pump not clearing cloudy pool?

If I had to replace one of the two, I'd suggest your filter is too small for that pool. I have a 250 lb. sand filter on my 13,500 gal. pool.
 
Re: Oversize pump not clearing cloudy pool?

While I agree that the filter is a bit too small for that pool, it isn't the reason you can't clear it. You may have to backwash it more than you would a larger filter, but it should clear it just as well. Also, just because your pump says 70gpm doesn't mean it's delivering anywhere near that.

I see that someone suggested adding DE to the filter in the other thread, so you should try that before giving up.

Since you have the 2-speed pump, I suggest going ahead and installing it.

Also, I'm combining these threads together, as it makes it difficult to keep up with the whole picture if it's spread between many threads.
 
I'll try the DE in the current setup tonight. I have a 1 HP 2-speed motor coming from Amazon tomorrow and I'll return the 1.5 HP pump tomorrow. After reading up on pump sizing it sounds like the 1 HP will be more than enough. Thanks for the feedback thus far. Feeling a bit discouraged right now, hopefully the DE or smaller pump improve the water. I plan to run the new pump at low speed to see if helps the sand filter works better.

Should I let the FC drop back down to normal levels? It has been at shock for about 5 days now. 0 CC.
 
Good job on that pump, you will save lots of money running that pump on low to filter. Just need some patience now. It took a week and a half to SLAM my pool a month ago. And it was perfectly clear and had been for 3 years straight. The SLAM process works great, it just needs time to kill all the algae. Make sure you brush daily or more, especially ladders, lights, cleaners, anything that can hide some algae. If the water is mostly clear and you can see the bottom then it is fine to lower the FC just below shock level and swim. We swam every day during our SLAM.

- - - Updated - - -

Please add your pool info to your signature as shown here, Pool School - Getting Started
 
Some updates:

I added about 1 1/2 cups total of DE to the old filter/pump setup Friday night. By Saturday at noon the pool looked maybe slightly improved, nothing major though.

Installed the new 1 HP 2-speed pump on Saturday. It's excellent! Flow on high is still strong, but not fire-hydrant strong like it was before. Clean filter pressure went from 15 psi down to 10 psi on high. 1.5 psi on low. I also noticed the Hayward sand filter says 10 psi maximum head pressure...I'm continuing to use DE but with the pump on high as it circulates the water much better. I tried low overnight Sat-Sun and didn't notice any significant improvement in water clarity. Once I get the water cleared (if that ever happens?!) I plan to run the pump on low 24/7.

The kids wanted to swim as it has been hot here and the water is nice and warm so I let the chlorine drift down slightly to ~11-13 Saturday and Sunday. New pump still running 24/7. Vacuumed the pool manually for a couple hours on Sunday and scrubbed all the walls and steps really well. Sucked up a lot more leaves and pine needles than I had expected. I still can't see the bottom so it makes vacuuming a real challenge...I then let the robot go for a couple hours and it drew up a bunch more leaves so my great vacuum job wasn't as good as I thought. Brought the chlorine level back up to 16 last night, I've almost gone through my 16 gallons of 12.5% so I need to buy more today!

It's supposed to be near 90 most of the week, can I keep the chlorine between 10-14 so that the kids can swim for a few days? I've been working on clearing up the pool for weeks now and the kid & mom are losing patience with this whole process.
 
I believe we can now say why it's taking so long. Every leaf and stick, as well as algae, uses chlorine. As long as there is still debris in the deep end, that is going to use up the chlorine before it gets a chance to work on the algae.
Do you have a leaf rake? It looks like a skimmer net but it has a long net/mesh bag attached. These work great for cleaning up stuff, even when you can't 'see' it.
 
I was starting to think that could be the case as well. The leaves were thin and very bleached looking. The organic stuff must be using up the bleach.

I don't have a leaf rake, only a skimmer net. I'll try to find one today/tomorrow. Thank you for the help! I also had a thought, maybe I should shut the pump off for a day or so to let everything settle and hopefully clear the water some so I can fish out the leaves/debris, then start the SLAM process again. I don't know if I've got most of it out now or not.
 

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