Anyone have any experience with this product yet. I saw a review on Youtube for it and it was apparantly working. The product comes in a 10 oz container, claimed to be all non toxic mineral salts. The product claims to be effective at killing bacteria, viruses and algae and promises to keep your pool sparkling clear at a FC level of 1.0. The 10 oz container is supposedly enough to treat and maintain a 15000 gal pool for 2.5 months. The product costs about $70 on Amazon. It all sounds to good to be true. I currently use the BBB method to maintain my pool and test using taylor reagents. The method works great but does certainly require a little more effort. If the NaturAqua actually works I would consider it a breakthrough product for swimming pool owner. I don't want to be the first guinea pig for testing this product but anxious to see if people are using it with good results.
NaturAqua -All in one pool Sanitizer
- Thread starter Bilben1
- Start date
TFP is all about simplicity. Chlorine will keep your pool sanitary and safe and it is the least expensive product that will do so.
This is just another "magic bullet" that they hope you will buy.
This is just another "magic bullet" that they hope you will buy.
We all know what that means, don't we?
Where is the logic or rationale to even consider it? Chlorine in conjunction with proper CYA levels is safe, gentle and effective. This alternative is mineral salts. That's just marketing speak for putting metals in your pool. Staining of pool walls and hair coupled with slow kill rates of nasties in your pool and it's pointless to even consider.
Can I interest you in some snake oil? Ocean-front property in Arizona?
Can I interest you in some snake oil? Ocean-front property in Arizona?
Well, maybe I'm having a slow morning, but I can't find an MSDS on line for the product. No MSDS, there is not a chance it will go in my pool.
I couldn't find the MSDS, either. I did find a bunch of marketing gobbledygook that was so bogus it makes me sick.
Unscrupulous people try to mask worthless products with "feel good" buzzwords.
Bogus Bogus Bogus.
Unscrupulous people try to mask worthless products with "feel good" buzzwords.
Bogus Bogus Bogus.
I manage to maintain a 16,000 gallon pool for about a buck a day... $75 for 2.5 months. And I know exactly what I'm pouring in my pool. A five dollar savings on an unproven product? What if it has some nasty side effects that necessitates draining. Where's the savings there?
It's just another mineral system, that probably has Copper Sulfate in it, which is a great algaecide, but it also stains the walls and turns blond hair green. It also doesn't kill bacteria fast enough to prevent transmission between swimmers the way bleach does. Alternative sanitizers and pools--The Truth!!
I can't find an English-language webpage for them, either. The largest pool markets in the world -- USA & Australia -- and there's nothing? Could it be that these countries have standards for swimming pool sanitizers and spurious claims?
NaturAqua
It's just another mineral system, that probably has Copper Sulfate in it, which is a great algaecide, but it also stains the walls and turns blond hair green. It also doesn't kill bacteria fast enough to prevent transmission between swimmers the way bleach does. Alternative sanitizers and pools--The Truth!!
I can't find an English-language webpage for them, either. The largest pool markets in the world -- USA & Australia -- and there's nothing? Could it be that these countries have standards for swimming pool sanitizers and spurious claims?
NaturAqua
Looks like this is the US distributor, Qarnosa & it seems to me made in Mexico.- I also cant find a MSDS nor anything else listing contents, Nutten!
When did chlorine get such a bad rap? It's always something. Don't vaccinate kids, and I think the newest trend is this glutten free thing. Maybe the real culprit is the chloramines, and if people realized how they came into existence, they'd dose correctly and not be so afraid of the good version of chlorine vs it's byproduct.
The company that makes it is Fortech in Costa Rica.
They make bacteria kill claims but neither the EPA Pesticide Product Label System (PPLS) nor the National Pesticide Information Retrieval System shows the product nor the company (there is another Fortech that is not at all related and has no registered products).
Most likely this product contains copper since that is an algaecide that would kill algae in pools not maintaining a proper FC/CYA ratio such as typical pools using Trichlor where the CYA builds up to high levels. With an algaecide, a lower FC level could be used. Of course, with copper one can get staining of plaster surfaces and have blond hair turn greenish.
Thank you so much for bringing this to our attention. I have reported this to the EPA as a violation of FIFRA rules regarding product labeling and advertising/marketing as it is illegal to make pesticidal kill claims without the product being registered with the EPA and specifically for swimming pool (or spa) products to have passed EPA DIS/TSS-12.
They make bacteria kill claims but neither the EPA Pesticide Product Label System (PPLS) nor the National Pesticide Information Retrieval System shows the product nor the company (there is another Fortech that is not at all related and has no registered products).
Most likely this product contains copper since that is an algaecide that would kill algae in pools not maintaining a proper FC/CYA ratio such as typical pools using Trichlor where the CYA builds up to high levels. With an algaecide, a lower FC level could be used. Of course, with copper one can get staining of plaster surfaces and have blond hair turn greenish.
Thank you so much for bringing this to our attention. I have reported this to the EPA as a violation of FIFRA rules regarding product labeling and advertising/marketing as it is illegal to make pesticidal kill claims without the product being registered with the EPA and specifically for swimming pool (or spa) products to have passed EPA DIS/TSS-12.
How much less effort could there be as far as TFPC is concerned? I test my water, add chlorine. Done.
It seems you have found a solution looking for a problem. I could just imagine how much more work it may be trying to maintain a FC of only 1.0ppm!
Why are you considering something like this? Is there a problem with your pool/water chemistry?
If you are looking for simplicity you would be better off with a SWG or chlorine injection system.
Dom
There also seems to be a misunderstanding here with the actual active chlorine level in the pools at the minimum FC/CYA levels in the Chlorine / CYA Chart in the Pool School. The active chlorine (hypochlorous acid) level is the same as in a pool with only 0.06 ppm FC with no CYA. So you need to get out of your head that higher FC levels of 3 ppm, 6 ppm, or even 10 ppm are "high". It all depends on the CYA level since CYA HUGELY moderates chlorine's strength. 97% of the FC is chlorine bound to CYA that is essentially inert or not reactive and is instead a reserve of chlorine releasing more as unbound chlorine gets used/consumed.
If you really, really, really wanted to have a lower FC/CYA ratio because you were dead set on a lower FC level (and presumably you would still use CYA otherwise you'd be having a higher active chlorine level) then you could use a supplemental product to control algae, but that need not be copper ions that have side effects. You could use Polyquat 60 algaecide weekly or you could use a phosphate remover.
If you really, really, really wanted to have a lower FC/CYA ratio because you were dead set on a lower FC level (and presumably you would still use CYA otherwise you'd be having a higher active chlorine level) then you could use a supplemental product to control algae, but that need not be copper ions that have side effects. You could use Polyquat 60 algaecide weekly or you could use a phosphate remover.
Thanks everyone for the reply to my query. I saw the video for this product on MRDvgb channel on Youtube. He is an experienced pool service guy in SoCal and he does provide, I think, a lot of useful videos on maintaining a pool. He even has video on the BBB method. He is not promoting NaturAqua product but he does demonstrate its use on one 15000 gal pool. In the video he adds a small quantity, ~20 grams for the initial shot,of the NaturaAqua as per directions to the skimmer and then comes back three weeks later and the pool has no measurable chlorine and is still perfectly clean. Personally I found that pretty shocking!! My pool would be a swamp in short order if I let the chlorine get low. Thats why I asked the question if people have any experience with this product. I really can't see how any chemical would be effective a the tiny quantities being added.
I like your comment about "a pool is like a pet... " . My feelings exactly. Also thanks for the link to the Alternative sanitizes thread. I had forgotten most of that stuff. Very informative. Also I see a lot of claims on actual levels of free chlorine as a function of CYA but has anyone come across triclor's, dissociation constant ,K and the equation for its breakdown in water?
I like your comment about "a pool is like a pet... " . My feelings exactly. Also thanks for the link to the Alternative sanitizes thread. I had forgotten most of that stuff. Very informative. Also I see a lot of claims on actual levels of free chlorine as a function of CYA but has anyone come across triclor's, dissociation constant ,K and the equation for its breakdown in water?
Isnt that the same as the Nature2 stuff?
I used that for several years back 10 or so years ago and it worked fine, just quite expensive. For a small pool it might be worth it.
I used that for several years back 10 or so years ago and it worked fine, just quite expensive. For a small pool it might be worth it.
If your goal is to be able to let your pool go and not have chlorine in it and have it not get algae, then there are several ways to do that besides using this product. In addition to using copper ions which this product may be using as an algaecide, you could use Polyquat 60 weekly or you could use a phosphate remover to get phosphates below 100 ppb. My pool used to have 3000+ ppb phosphates and I would definitely call it "reactive" in that if the FC/CYA level went too much below the minimum, then chlorine demand would shoot up and the pool start to turn dull, then cloudy, and/or show algae. So diligence in dosing was very important. However, after the experiment that was done in this thread where a product manufacturer came over and added a phosphate remover (also added enzymes but those are not relevant to this discussion), the pool is night and day different in its reactivity. I could easily go a week or more and not have any sign of algae -- not that I would intentionally do that normally but I did one test to see what would happen shortly after the experiment. Now my phosphates 4 years later have crept back up from 100 ppb to 400 ppb (since I haven't used any phosphate remover since the experiment) and the pool is starting to be just a little reactive.
Now the fact is that if you let a pool go with no chlorine, just because you don't see algae and the water is clear doesn't mean it is safe. Bacteria can still grow, albeit more slowly at lower phosphate levels, and there is no protection (fast kill) for person-to-person transmission of disease. So it's not something you'd want to do. Realistically the only reason to use the supplemental products is either as insurance if you are unable to maintain the proper FC/CYA level or if for whatever reason you want to have a lower FC/CYA level target and still not get algae, but not too low a level since you still want to kill bacteria reasonably quickly.
I think the above highlighted statements are key. Keeping a pool looking beautiful is possible at lower chlorine levels, when there is little to no bather waste involved... I think it takes a relatively high bacterial count (which in my supposition would come from the environment-- or maybe the hand/arm of whoever is collecting water to test) before the water begins to look "icky." Of course, if the chlorine gets used to kill the bacteria, then there's none there to kill the algae...
(And round and round we go....)
My point is that if no one is using it, then one could conceivably have a very clean-looking pool, using algecides and very little chlorine... but clean-looking doesn't mean sanitary or safe. :-?
Every year, when it's time to get the pool up and running in the Spring {well in So. AZ its more like pre-Summer
, since there's no such thing as Spring here, once it starts to warm-up -- it's H-O-T? before you know it! ? but I digress....}anyway... when it's time to get the pool going again, DH always asks what we "should be doing" to get this 'done' because he really wants to be able to hook all the hoses up, turn it on, flush the filter, pour something in the pool, vacuum, and BINGO -- one weekend and everything is done---
And every year he seems surprised when I tell him that there is nothing to be done, other than what we always do: Bleach, bleach, and more bleach.... run the scooper around the bottom of the pool to get out what we can, brush the sides/sweep everything to the center & finally vacuum when the water clears enough to see. And all along the process, keep bleaching-it-up!
DH is one of the smartest people I know, and still every year he wants that magic "potion"-- And he knows that the TFP process works... but panaceas are tempting. I admit to seeing a "Flippin' Frog" at Walmart and being tempted, but in the end the little guy was sent hopping right back onto the shelf. I don't even know why I looked at it, since we have a SWCG that keeps up pretty well unless it's hot enough to practically boil pool water
. I've gotten so spoiled by my clean, sanitary, pretty
pool, that I won't get into anyone else's pool, unless I personally know how they care for it. As a matter of fact, TFP principles have kept my Intex "seasonal play pool* " looking more inviting and [I know it is] cleaner than 90% of my friends' and neighbors' in-ground pools. Theirs are almost never sparkly, and I frequently hear them complaining about how their pools are cloudy (or not as clear) because of the "monsoon storms". Now, I'll concede that they have run-off of dirt into their pools that I do not... but I don't think that accounts for most of their trouble. Because the other 10% of the pools I spoke of above, are back to crystal after a day of filtering and a thorough vacuuming.
And after what I've learned at this forum, and others like it, I can't bring myself to get into a public pool at all
!! *I leave my Intex up year-round, so for me it isn't seasonal, although I will admit to the "play" part .... :slidehalo:
We do not make claims. We deal in facts supported by peer-reviewed scientific papers published in respected journals along with validation in tens of thousands of real pools.
See the "Chlorine/CYA Relationship" section in the first post of Certified Pool Operator (CPO) training -- What is not taught and the thread Pool Water Chemistry and in particular this post that has the equilibrium constants for the 9 independent chemical equations for CYA and chlorine bound to CYA (the chlorinated isocyanurates including trichor and dichlor) and derives why the FC/CYA ratio is proportional to the active chlorine (hypochlorous acid) concentration. Trichlor is denoted in that post as Cl3CY. As mentioned in those posts, this all comes from the definitive O'Brien paper from 1974 and I wrote a Pool Equations spreadsheet that calculates all the chemical species including the HOCl level.
What the industry today calls "Free Chlorine (FC)" includes the chlorine bound to CYA whereas in the days of the O'Brien paper free chlorine was that which was unbound to CYA. Today's FC is the sum of what O'Brien called "reservoir chlorine" which is chlorine bound to CYA and "free chorine" which is unbound chlorine (hypochlorous acid and hypochlorite ion). He explicitly defines this in his paper, but I don't want you to get confused with the modern FC usage which is different. O'Brien does state that: "Wet chemical methods for estimating free chlorine concentrations include chlorinated cyanurates as well."
Well, that's not my take. He has hustled his products on this forum and been banned. Just not our kind of guy.
Thanks for all the input. Special thanks to Chem Geekfor the the links to the CPO training, the O'Brien paper and the spreadsheet for calculating the various species. They are very helpful. The O'Brien paper is excellent work. Just what I was looking for. Although I had figured out from my own experience that CYA buildup reduced the effectiveness of the chlorine I really did not understand to what extent until I came upon this website about a year ago. Since than I stopped using Tricolor tabs and just use 10% HTH chlorinating liquid, 31% HCl and bicarb when needed. I test daily using Taylor DPD-FAS for FC, pH with a Beckman meter and temp and record everything in Jesse's spreadsheet that was linked on this site. Recently I have also added borate to the pool. My main focus was to prevent algae growth since the pool gets very little use these days. The pool is 35 years old with the original plaster and tile. The pool is always sanitized, sparkling clean. I have yet to experience an algae bloom since following this method. My only complaint is hauling the gallons of bleach from the store that's why I had some interest in the 10 oz NaturAqua product. Less routine work is always a goal for me.
You can say that again. I've looked at hundreds if not thousands of peer-reviewed scientific papers published in respected journals and that one from 1974 is one of the best I have seen in the detail and care they took to get accurate results, in their comparisons to previous investigations, in the cleverness of some of their methods and techniques, in their clear presentation of their methods, results, and discussion, and in the absence of typos or other errors.
When I was getting permission to post a scanned PDF copy of their paper, I spoke with James Butler, one of the authors of that paper, and complimented him on that fine work. He said that O'Brien was a main driving force behind it as a graduate student and he was surprised that the paper still was being looked at, but he wasn't aware how the industry had largely ignored it for nearly 40 years in order to promote the "CYA doesn't matter, only FC matters" mantra.
If you want to haul less bleach, then of course automation with a saltwater chlorine generator would eliminate that, but if you don't want to go that route you can probably cut your chlorine usage in half by using a mostly opaque pool cover. If you can't use a cover, then another technique would be to use an algaecide such as Polyquat 60 weekly or a phosphate remover and then set your FC/CYA minimum to around 3% instead of 7.5%. You'll lose less than half as much chlorine due to sunlight so have roughly half the chlorine usage. Unless your phosphate level is rather high or you are using a phosphate-based metal sequestrant (such as HEDP) or have very high phosphates in your fill water with a lot of evaporation and refill, then the phosphate remover will likely be the less expensive mostly one-time dosing approach, but you'll have to figure out whether it saves you money or whether it costs more but is worth it to you for hauling half as much bleach.