Structural safety issue???

Jump to latest Follow Reply
S

SoonerWing

0
LifeTime Supporter
Jan 27, 2015
147
Tuttle/Oklahoma
So this is what our waterfall / diving platform, which is being built over our grotto, is supposed to look like (first pic). Apparently a pipe for the light got cut so they had to dig under the decking to get the light wired. Problem is that this part of the deck is going to be supporting ~1/2 the weight of the waterfall. I am concerned that now that they have dug out from underneath it, it is not as structurally sound. Any experts out there with thoughts or opinions? If it is a safety issue, what should I have them do?

4bc27bf7-18d7-406a-b9bf-86acda160532_zpsk5bigq09.png
[/URL][/IMG]

20150716_204017_zpsaehzxywd.jpg
[/URL][/IMG]

20150716_203728_zpsuz0wfnwi.jpg
[/URL][/IMG]

20150716_204027_zpswxpfta4e.jpg
[/URL][/IMG]

20150716_203723_zps0zsu6jll.jpg
[/URL][/IMG]

20150716_203808_zpszhm2xqmv.jpg
[/URL][/IMG]

20150716_203903_zpsrtoehsjb.jpg
[/URL][/IMG]

20150716_204002_zpsa1ibswgy.jpg
[/URL][/IMG]

20150716_204045_zpsrfb44wuf.jpg
[/URL][/IMG]

20150716_204121_zpsmdtbo6dn.jpg
[/URL][/IMG]

20150716_204143_zps2ofizalp.jpg
[/URL][/IMG]

20150716_204202_zpscdnlneby.jpg
[/URL][/IMG]
 
Ok That is interesting.

Where do I start. So they screwed up the conduit for the pool light. That conduit with the cord coming out does not comply with code now. There should be a ground wire for the niche in there, That is not present. Second water should be coming out. Light conduits are open to pool so the light cord can be pulled through if you have to replace the cord. No putty !!!!!!!! You want that conduit line back to the junction box as clean as possible with the least number of large radius turns as possible because when you replace the light fixture in ten years you want pulling that cord to be easy peasy.

As to the issue you raise. In California they would have to call an engineer to tell them what to do. I'm not an engineer. I would suspect that you would want them to backfill and compact to some standard as much as they can and then fill the remaining void with concrete or grout. Are there engineering drawings or specs for the grotto or the pool? They would talk about an accecptable footing.

Your slab is already thick to act as a footing for the Grotto but they have cut out the support for the footing. They need to carefully replace that support with comparable support. Did you pull a permit for this pool and the grotto? Is inspection required? I would think about having an engineer look at it and tell you how to replace the support for the footing.
 
I agree with gwegan.

Get an engineer involved, and an electrician familiar with the NEC (National Electric Code) as it shows specific requirements for pool electrical.

Your local building inspector will also be willing to help resolve this.
 
there is suppose to be a bonding wire to everything in your pool, lights, ladder, concrete, rebar, pump, basically everything touching the pool or water.. at least you know now...
 
I can see why there is not water pouring out of that conduit.
There is a caulking gun on the deck.
You do NOT want them caulking that conduit for the reasons mentioned above.

The Bonding wire may be there, hidden by the deck. It does not have to come out where the conduit is. It may be running around the edge of the pool under the deck.
Since they have dug out to the back of the light fixture, you should be able to see a thick copper wire attached to it's bonding lug.

Why have they pulled the cable though the conduit before it is complete.
If you are close enough to panel it can run directly there.
If it is further away (sorry don't know the length threshold) then it has to come up above grade to a junction box.
That conduit needs to be completed prior to running the wire otherwise there is a risk the PVC cement will get on the insulation and dissolve it.
 
sounds like the bigger issue he is the electrical work, but as far as the concrete goes....well I am an engineer :) I wouldn't accept that, there is no way to get the soil compacted under that concrete. I don't care how thick it is, the rebar that goes into a concrete slab like that one there isn't going to give it the strength to span that beam. its going to crack/fail eventually. I would recommend they saw cut the deck at the top of the stairs (on the right) to the about where the box is (on the left). they can do a nice clean angled cut on the left and it will look nice. then backfill/compact the ground and repour that section of concrete. this will also allow them the proper room to address the lighting/electric issues correctly.
 

Enjoying this content?

Support TFP with a donation.

Give Support
I am not an engineer either, but I think that job is totally subpar. The conduit needs to terminate in a junction box that is at least 8" above the water line, at least 4 inches above ground level and at least 4ft away from the pool edge. That can easily be accomplished by them gluing new conduits and running it back to a junction box.

From NEC 680.24
(a) Vertical Spacing. The junction box shall not be located less than 4 in. above the ground or pool, outdoor spa, or hot tub deck, or not less than 8 in. above the maximum water level.
(b) Horizontal Spacing. The junction box shall be located not less than 4 ft from the inside wall of the pool, outdoor spa or hot tub, unless separated by a solid fence, wall, or other permanent barrier.


As far as the concrete - I wouldn't trust that one bit. When they are done (and have your money), it may look fine. But I would not be surprise at all if in a year or two - you have a major problem with the dirt settling and crack forming. I agree with Dan that they should cut out the section of concrete and then repour it. However - trying to match your current concrete is going to be difficult. Maybe a better solution would be cut out that section of concrete and repour. However - don't even try to make it match. Make it different so that it looks like you intentionally wanted it to look different, and that it's not a patch job.

(BTW - I am trying to deal with my PB on a concrete issue and I want them to cut out a small section, reset my grabbar which are not even, and then put a pebble finish so it looks like it was meant to look that way. There is no way they can match the concrete finish that is already there, and I don't want it to look like a patch job.)
 
As an engineer I would concur with opinion above to remove the slab, fill, compact and repour after properly placing reinforcing steel.

An alternative would be to remove any loose disturbed soil. Form the perimeter of the slab and fill with a non-shrink grout. This practice is best executed by a foundation repair contractor and is used often in areas with expansive soils. Do not let them fill with foam! The problem I see with this solution is the organic material about a foot below the slab which should have been removed. Also there are at least two PVC plumbing pipes in the excavation, one of which appears to be open and full of dirt. Do you know if this portion of the grade was filled?

As I recall some LV LED Niches have a compression fitting on the cord which could be holding the water. The conduit should be continuous to the panel or turn up into a junction box that is 18" above grade.
 
I am comfortable with the electrical as it is running back to a box at the far end of the patio. My primary concern is the issue with the decking and it being able to support all of that rock after the fix and I am NOT an engineer. The PB told me that they are going fill in the current "issue hole", dig new holes on each side of the "issue hole" and pour vertical concrete piers to support the deck above the "issue hole" sort of like a bridge is supported. An attorney friend told me: "I wouldn't suggest a fix. If your suggestion doesn't work all they have to say is we did what the homeowner wanted. Tell them your worried about the undercut and ask them if they are going to do anything to support. You have photos evidencing the problem if it fails.There are industry standards and under-cutting support falls outside industry standards. The PB will be held liable for any future issues if they do not fix it properly". Thoughts???
 
PB has suggested underpinning the deck. This is a standard practice that is used to reinforce failing foundations and will work if they follow the proper procedure: 1)Remove all loose soils; 2)Remove any organic materials; 3)Compact concrete during pour with a concrete vibrator (not a 2x4 or hammer on the forms).

What you should observe is the current excavation is cleaned out, formed and poured (proper vibration is critical or large air pockets will remain). Then they will excavate a 3' section starting at the expansion joint opposite the stairs, form and pour a pier. Move another 3' and repeat until it looks like a smile with every other tooth missing. Finally they remove the earth in the missing teeth, form and pour.

If I was your PB I would cut your slab at the coping and the two expansion joints (temporarily supporting the stairs). excavate and pour in one shot. In the end it will be faster and cheaper than the approach above.
 
i don't see how much money they are really saving with that solution. the best solution is to saw cut and remove the concrete, recompact and repour. its the better, cleaner solution. put your foot down. they are your contractor, but you are the owner. they messed up, and you are not required to accept their solution. tell them you will not accept it and correct it properly
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Thread Status
Hello , This thread has been inactive for over 60 days. New postings here are unlikely to be seen or responded to by other members. For better visibility, consider Starting A New Thread.
Top Bottom
Back
Jump to latest Follow Reply