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Thread: EQUIPMENT HELP - I NEED TO ORDER BY MONDAY EOD!

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    From_Arizona's Avatar
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    EQUIPMENT HELP - I NEED TO ORDER BY MONDAY EOD!

    I am loosing my mind with head pressure loss/gain...HELP! I have been studying these posts, other sites, etc to try to determine if I am going to order the correct equipment for my pool, is it unwanted overkill or am I going to hurt something. I need help....PLEASE! I used to do pump calculations using straight formulas with the fire department, but this is not as straight forward and I just worn out and frustrated after much deliberation.

    I would love to buy a beer for anyone that will help - is there a way to ship a cold one to ya??

    My dig is Tuesday , Gas line on Wed, Plumbing on Thur and Steel on Friday...OMG I may pull my hiar out on the schedule I just laid out. Oh ya, I work full time too


    POOL:
    I think 19,000 gal
    34x17
    3.5' x5' x 3.5' playpool
    2 water bubblers in baja step in front area of pool
    5 water scuppers at back wall
    75 feet from pool edge to equipment location all on flat ground
    In floor cleaning system
    Future solar system (single story pitch roof mount system) w/ 2" line preplum access

    PUMPS:
    Looking for 2 Pentair Whisperflow pumps , one for water features and one for filtering, the Intelliflow is just too much at twice the price
    Looking at either P011515 2HP Full Rated or P011523 2hp Full Rates dual speed.

    FILTER:
    Looking at the Pentair DE Quad 60, I am not sure if I need to move to the DE Quad 8o due to GPM flow of pump and head pressure....I am getting really confused...thought bigger on filter is better??

    SWG: Yes...Sean has lot's pf great info!!
    Pool Pilot - digital control #75003 to be able to automatically increase chlorine production when the temperature gets hotter
    Pool Pilot Manifold SC48 or 60 (? or 94113)
    Pool Pilot Control to control Filter pump w/ SWG #75008 this should keep filter running when we set it for overkill setting on chlorination.

    Am I looking at the correct combo of equipment? Am I off my rocker or ?

    I would like to automate my two Hayward Color Logic light (have to sync them together so hayward seems to be the way to go) and be able to turn the water scupper on at the back of pool, as well as filter pump and baja step bubbler. I really think there may be something that will do the job rather than the Jandy Aqualink....what are your thoughts?

    Thank yo to everyone that contributes to this awesome forum!!
    1980's Shasta built 30,000 gal inground diving pool. Pebble-tec interior. Pentair DE Filter. In ground pop-ups. Hayward Navigator sweeper.

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    If you are looking for pool automation and a SWG I would suggest the Goldline Controls (Hayward) Aqualogic units. Their SWG is almost as good as the PoolPilot, IMHO, and they can control your lights, valves, pumps (including 2 speed), and heater (including solar), in addition to other things like yard lighting or music or whatever you want to wire into it. I have the PS-8 and have been very pleased. It controls both my pumps (Whisperflo for filtration, Pentair Pinnicle for water features), the valves for my different water features, my pressure side cleaner, the lights in my spa, pool, and the fiber optics for my water features (and since all my lights and the fiber optics illuminator are all Pentair I can sync them through the Aqualogic). I can control the valves for my pool or spa and have my heat pump keep different temperature and clorine levels in each. I have a floating waterproof wireless remote for the spa and a wireless remote poolside and in the house to control everything. When I get around to it I am going to hook up my backyard low voltage lighting to it also.

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    Re: EQUIPMENT HELP - I NEED TO ORDER BY MONDAY EOD!

    Being a pretty simple redneck like me presents certain advantages....one is I seldom overthink anything.

    Here's how I chose my pump and filter. I knew my pool was 43k and I knew I wanted to turn that water approx 2.5 times in a 24 hour period....that's 75 gpm.

    Next, I asked around and found out most pools had a TDH ("resistance" in redneck terms) of around 40. some 30, some 60 maybe but that's okay, too. So, looking on the pump curves and using that TDH, I found several 1hp full-rated pumps that would give me that 75gpm more or less so I bought one.

    I also knew that a filter that was rated at least 20% greater than the flow of the pump is a good thing so I bought one that was almost 50% greater than the pump's gpm....works like a charm.

    I probably could've been far more scientific and saved a little electricity or something, but those peripheral items are chump change compared to what I spend on beer alone.

    My Dad taught me that when I was faced with a large, perplexing issue, I should break it down into components and solve each of those components one at a time......not addressing the others 'til I had the first one solved. It may help you to finalize your pump and filter selections first and then focus on the remainder.
    Dave S. - Forum owner
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

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    Ditto to what Waterbear said about Aqualogic and what Dave said about making it simple.

    Having said that, here are a few rules of thumb that I have learned over the years.

    First, you can pretty much forget about predicting head loss with any certainty for new pool. You can get close but the effort is really not worth it. I know I have tried many times. However, you can make a few assumptions to get you close and make sure there are not any problems or you don't over dimension. PBs love to over dimension because it doesn't cost them much more but it does ensure that there will be enough flow for everything. However, most pool owners are energy conscious and prefer not to through money away either.

    I suspect that the in floor system is driving the HP for the circulation system? Double check what flow rates are needed for your in floor system and then look at the pump's head curve to make sure you can get there with fairly high head. With 2 HP pumps expect north of 60 feet of head depending on pipe size.

    Best efficiency point for a Whisperflow 2 HP full rated pump is about 107 GPM @ 63 feet of head. This is the sweet spot. To get there though with 75 feet of pipe, you may need the equivalent of 3" suction and 2.5" return lines to keep head loss down. Otherwise, your head loss will be higher and flow rates lower.

    Instead of one line for suction and one line for return, you may be better off with multiple lines and smaller diameters. One 3" line is equivalent to two 2.5" lines or three 2.0" lines. A 2.5" line is equivalent to two 2" lines or four 1.5" lines. So if you run a separate line from each skimmer and main drain you can reduce head loss and increase pumping efficiency. You can do the same on the return side as well which may be benificial to the in floor cleaners.

    So in summary, make sure you definitely need the flow rates for a high HP pump to justify what it is going to cost you in energy. And make sure your plumbing (pipe size) can handle that flow rate.
    Mark
    Hydraulics 101; Pump Ed 101; Pump and Pool Spreadsheets; Pump Run Time Study; DIY Acid Dosing; DIY Cover Roller
    18'x36' 20k plaster, 1/2 HP 2sp pump, Aqualogic PS8 SWCG, 420 sq-ft Cartridge, Solar, 6 jet spa, 1 HP jet pump, 400k BTU NG Heater

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    From_Arizona's Avatar
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    Thank you all three!...I was really driving myself crazy and I didn't think I needed to.

    Do not overthink it...
    Keep it simple....
    Use the basic assumption and check the pipe diameters to ensure I am using what I am paying for...

    I am off to some pool parks to check pebble tec color in actual pools today, more time to deliberate.

    I realy appreciate your thoughts and suggestions!
    1980's Shasta built 30,000 gal inground diving pool. Pebble-tec interior. Pentair DE Filter. In ground pop-ups. Hayward Navigator sweeper.

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    Re: EQUIPMENT HELP - I NEED TO ORDER BY MONDAY EOD!

    Quote Originally Posted by duraleigh
    I knew I wanted to turn that water approx 2.5 times in a 24 hour period...
    Dave, just curious why/how you settled on 2.5 times turnover?

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    Re: EQUIPMENT HELP - I NEED TO ORDER BY MONDAY EOD!

    Quote Originally Posted by Rangeball
    Quote Originally Posted by duraleigh
    I knew I wanted to turn that water approx 2.5 times in a 24 hour period...
    Dave, just curious why/how you settled on 2.5 times turnover?
    Most everything you read suggests turning your pool over 2-3 times daily.....hence, 2.5 as a good target but two or three is just as good.
    Dave S. - Forum owner
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

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    Dave, you're an angel (or is that angle? ) Your advice is always well thought and well presented (unlike mine ) Ditto to you Mark! Thanks for being here guys

    From_Az, good luck and best wishes for your pool!! With guys like Dave and Mark here, you'll get any ? or problem taken care of in a very timely manner! (It's not just Dave and Mark, there a a lot of very knowledgable folks here willing to do all they can to help the other members)
    ps. Dave, you care to compare beer bills?
    Luv& Luk
    -Ted

    Having done construction and service for 4 pool companies in 4 states starting in 1988, what I know about pools could fill a couple of books - what I don't know could fill a couple of libraries :-D

    POOL SCHOOL, TF Testkits, Jason's Pool Calculator, CYA vs. cl chart, (Just a few DARNED handy links!)

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