1.5" -> 2" PVC for Equipment Pad?

TomTucker

Member
Mar 23, 2019
8
St. Louis
Hello
I'm getting ready to install a Pentair Superflo VS pump and am considering how I'm going to re-do my equipment pad.
Currently have a Pentair Challenger 1HP. (I followed the Hayward guide and used a vacuum gauge to measure my suction side vacuum for an accurate TDH).

I've dealt with the company the previous owner used for service and I can only assume they installed this pump. They a pretty rag-tag group and not professional in any form of the word.
As you can see from the photo, they plumbed basically straight out of a tee into the pump.

I'm going to extend the pump intake and align the filter discharge up with the vertical return pipe as shown in the sketchup drawing.
I'm planning on replacing all the 90°s with 45° pairs to reduce TDH if at all possible. I'm under the impression that this will help but not a game-changer.
Any other recommendations are welcome.

I got to thinking...would it make any real-world difference if I enlarged the above-ground piping to 2"?
Or would it not make any perceivable difference as the rest of the underground PVC is 1-1/2"?

( I put a salt cell and a few tees in the filter discharge. I am considering a steener vs salt cell and currently am just mannually adding bleach daily, these are future provisions.)

MVIMG_20200514_165917.jpg
MVIMG_20200514_165929.jpg
newpoolpad.png
 

TomTucker

Member
Mar 23, 2019
8
St. Louis
Oh yeah, one more question...how much resistance do unions add to flow?
Are they negligible or significant?
I've heard mixed opinions on youtube.
Thanks :)
 

cfherrman

TFP Guide
May 10, 2017
2,527
Hays, Kansas
Aside from adding a swg the only thing you are going to accomplish is more chances for leaks.

All of that work will not even show up on a pressure gauge. Two 45's has double chance of making over a 90, and has little effect. The best way to put it is think of two straight runs of pipe, but one with 5 more feet, that is the difference.
 

fields_g

Well-known member
Dec 25, 2014
153
Rockville, MD
Non-pro here:

Your filter and ground connections have 1.5" connections. I think your pump has 2" with reducers. Are you abandoning our pressure pump? If so, you could use that additional ground run as another return by installing a 3-way jandy valve.

2" isn't going to change your world, but if you are doing major work, it wouldn't be a complete waste (you do have multiple 1.5" in and out of the ground that could be coupled to a 2" pipe). Though you still need to reduce going in and out of your filter.

I don't like the double 45's design, especially since it is pushing your equipment so far back on the pad. Center your equipment on the pad and in front of the ground connections.

The unions you currently have allow you to deep clean your sand filter. Unions before and after your pump would allow you to store your pump indoors during the winter (especally nice for pricier VSP pumps). These capabilities outweigh any possible flow concerns.
 

markayash

Gold Supporter
Mar 21, 2016
2,074
Marietta Ga
Won't make a big difference with a VS pump since you will be lowering your pressure and flow..My filter pressure use to be 18 psi with my old pump, now I run it around 4psi
BUT that being said I would replace the 2 input valves with 2" and run 2" to the pump..That way you have t 1.5" feeding into a 2"
 

TomTucker

Member
Mar 23, 2019
8
St. Louis
Appreciate the responses.
I'm not so much worried about it making a difference on the pressure gauge reading as I am trying to minimize the amount of energy it takes to circulate the water. At least what I can control anyway :)

I read some more last night and it seems based on these PVC fitting drop numbers that two 45s is better (2.1' x 2 = 4.2') than a single 90 (7.5'), but maybe approximately equal to a long sweep elbow (4.0). Which makes sense if you think about it physically.
It seems as if the long sweep is the way to go, but I can't seem to find any that are pressure rated.

Unfortunately, I have bought these 1.5" valves already to replace those you see in the photo, but I'll likely enlarge up to 2" pipe after that. I'm considering orienting them vertically.
I think my filter has external threads for 2", I'm going to look this evening.

fields_g, I do plan to eventually abandon the pressure pump but probably not till next year when I buy a robot. Wife isn't stoked about me spending more than a grand on the pool each summer, hehe.
As for the unions on the filter, I put those there after I replaced the sand last year. It was totally clogged from the previous owners clairifier, I believe. Coming from the world of process control the lack of serviceability was appalling to me :)
Regarding centering the equipment, you're probably correct. I could see an uneven load likely leading to issues over time.
 

cfherrman

TFP Guide
May 10, 2017
2,527
Hays, Kansas
If your about saving enegry, you should figure up the head savings, then pull up a head chart and see the enegry cost difference. Spoiler alert, less head = more watts
 

fields_g

Well-known member
Dec 25, 2014
153
Rockville, MD
I have the exact filter you have. Those threads don't take a 2" pipe, just special 1.5" pentair unions. (I tried to do the same when I moved from a superpump (1.5") to Maxflo (2") pump.

If you can return the valves, I would. a 2" Jandy 3-way valve with reducers and a 2" to the pump would be ideal. Since the pump body doesn't have a built on union, you could consider an add-on one between the valve and the pump.

The lower PSI directly correlates to the less wattage needed to push water.

I saw someone's real world fitting comparison a couple days back. A single 90 degree and two 45 degrees were only 3% apart (if I remember correctly). I'll see if I can find that and add it to this discussion. Added

Since there is nothing broken, I'd leave all the plumbing adjustments for a single go. Do the sweep integration at the same time. It really isn't much more work when you have everything ripped apart already.
 
Last edited:

mguzzy

Gold Supporter
Jul 8, 2015
2,021
OV, CA
I did a lot of research when I redid my pad and equipment 15 years or so ago... here were the take aways
45 vs 90's- Yes there is a difference.. but you are only running 1.5 inch pipe and flow rates for a pool pumps the difference is so minimal its not worth considering. And that was before VS pumps were in the picture. At the lower VS pump flows its even less noticeable.
2 inch vs 1.5 in pipe-I moved my pad 30 feet away from the original location, so It was worth it to upsize all the piping from the original 1.5 to 2 inch. But just for the redoing things on the pad you will not see a bit of difference.
The only significant thing I can see that would be different between going with 45's and 2 inch pipe and fittings is it will cost more.
 

jimmythegreek

TFP Expert
Bronze Supporter
In The Industry
Aug 10, 2017
2,619
Morris Cnty NJ
Just use sweeps double 45s aren't worth it. I would install a 3way valve out as far away from the pump and bring both pipes into that vertically leaving the longest length in front of pump. No reason to 90 toward the pump like you have it 90 toward eachother into a 3way with sweeps
 

jonpcar

Bronze Supporter
Jun 1, 2016
532
Gilbert, AZ
If anyone would take the time to read the sticky at the top of the page, it clearly shows that.......

less head = more watts
Casey, you aren’t taking into account the other variable that all who have VSPs can take advantage of, lower RPM

Less head allows you to run at a lower RPM and get the same flow (GPM) for LESS watts. For any given system GPM requirement: flow needed for skimming, cleaning, chlorinating, waterfall, whatever...

less head + lower RPM = less watts (at the same flow rate = GPM)

So, with a VSP, it’s always better to have a lower head in your system for energy/efficiency/watts usage. Whether or not your payback will cover the costs/efforts to reduce the head in your system is the question in any given case.

Personally, I agree with the two posters who say replace only the two valves on the suction side with one Jandy 3-way...two 1 1/2” inputs, one 2” output to the pump. Even this effort may not result in a +payback with energy savings (over time), but these valves are NICE. That would effectively give you a 2” suction line (most impactful side of pump) when the new 3-way valve is partially opened.

 
Last edited:

TomTucker

Member
Mar 23, 2019
8
St. Louis
Hey all,
Wanted to provide an update. I got the pump installed about a week ago and it's working pretty well.

I did wind up bringing the two (2) 1-1/2" suction lines into a Jandy 3-way valve with a single (1) 2" output directly to the pump, as recommended.
I moved the filter back slightly in order to line it up with the return piping, and eliminated the odd "jog over" in my return. This also gave me room to insert a union and Tee for a temperature probe on the filter inlet (for my future Home Assistant control box).

I appreciate all the responses. I wasn't very familiar with Jandy/multiport pool valves, so thanks for pointing me that direction.

I was planning on leaving the pressure-side booster pump return for now as I didn't have a robot yet. Maybe fall or next year, I thought.
So, I got the pump installed and everything reassembled. Whoo, life is good.
Literally the next day, wife asked "Would it be okay if we got the dolphin for your birthday instead of whatever else you had on the list?" "HECK YEAH", I exclaimed :)

So, now I'm a happy Nautilus CC+ owner. Its great as others have said.

Anyway, I plan to heed field_g's advice and put a 3-way jandy to regulate the flow between the four (4) regular returns and this single (1) pressure-cleaner return.
Tossing around the idea of adding a PoolSkim to the single pressure-side cleaner return, that way, I could precisely dial in the pool skim (while my pump is running low speed), in order to provide skimming all the time, but without having to employ a bunch of power from the pump. Just a thought.

Anyway, I'm super happy with the installation and thanks to all those who offered suggestions!!

MVIMG_20200529_152806.jpg
MVIMG_20200628_083740.jpg
MVIMG_20200628_094822.jpg
 
  • Like
Reactions: jonpcar and mguzzy

TomTucker

Member
Mar 23, 2019
8
St. Louis
Oh yeah, one more point...I installed both the Jandy and the full-port ball valves as I'd like to have 'super' positive shutoff when winterizing.
I wanted double protection, not just to rely on the plug inside the pump/jandy to seal.
Maybe overkill, yes. If i decide I don't like, I can always cut it out and insert a repair section.
 

mguzzy

Gold Supporter
Jul 8, 2015
2,021
OV, CA
Oh yeah, one more point...I installed both the Jandy and the full-port ball valves as I'd like to have 'super' positive shutoff when winterizing.
I wanted double protection, not just to rely on the plug inside the pump/jandy to seal.
Maybe overkill, yes. If i decide I don't like, I can always cut it out and insert a repair section.
I was wondering what those valves were for.. but that makes perfect sense. I like your whole layout now, very clean! Carry on!;)
 

Palpatine

Bronze Supporter
Sep 3, 2019
180
West Hills, CA
So, complete novice here... but curious, as we were just discussing in another thread, why no check valve between the suction inlets (after the 2" on the Jandy) and the pump inlet?

Wouldn't that help when cleaning the pump basket so the water would not drain back to the pool and put more stress on the pump when re-priming?
 

TomTucker

Member
Mar 23, 2019
8
St. Louis
It would and I could have done that.
I know I've seen on youtube one common method is to put the FloVis in front of the pump. Although it isn't technically a check valve, it can act as one in that instance.

I don't have any major issues priming in my setup, so wasn't so much concerned about this.