Advice - minor PVC plumbing adjustment for direct connection to fill pool

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ladylonghorn

Active member
Jan 14, 2016
43
Frisco, TX
Pool Size
16700
Surface
Plaster
Chlorine
Liquid Chlorine
Pictured is the set up of the pipe that was installed close to the outside water faucet so that I could use a splitter and be able to fill the pool directly when the water is low. Unfortunately it was poorly designed - the angle, height and placement have made it impossible to hook up a a connection other than using a regular hose that then sits on the ground.

I've had 2 different quotes - both in the $300 range to cut the PVC down a bit so there is enough space to 1) use a splitter with a 2) flexible short hose extension so that with these connected, the water would connect to this pipe.

As a DIYer, $300 seems like a lot and I feel like I should be able to tackle this. Is it a matter of simply using something to cut the PVC and using plumbers putty to connect a fitting to the shortened PVC pipe?outside hose.jpghose extension flexible.jpg
 
That air gap is not there if your skimmer is full of water.

You need to have a Backflow Preventer for the safety of your water supply.

@Dirk can tell you more.
 
Yup - needs a backflow preventer.

The pipe coming out of the ground can be shortened and the fitting at the top changed.
 
It's a bit hard to tell in the picture, but it looks like there might already be a vacuum breaker on that hose bibb? Can you give us a closer picture? Are ther little holes around it and does it sometimes spurt when you turn off the water with a hose connected? You will want to add one if not.

Modifying the PVC there would be pretty easy to DIY; not with putty, but you'd cut the pipe closer to the ground (I'd cut below all those couplers but leave plenty of pipe above the ground), and use PVC primer and cement to glue on new fittings. Make sure you end with a hose thread (normal pipe threads are a different thread-per-inch); this may be a separate "hose to pipe thread adapter" at a hardware store.

I had a similar issue and used a couple of short flex hose things like this to fit a tight bend (not quite; mine are more of a solid flex metal, but same concept): https://www.amazon.com/Hourleey-Garden-Protector-Extension-Adapter/dp/B08749NM1S. I also used a hose timer like this: https://www.amazon.com/Orbit-58910-2-Outlet-Programmable-Faucet/dp/B008VDULGG -- it's really nice to say "I want to add an inch", set it for 15 minutes, and not have to remember to come back out.

Anyway, get us more pictures of the hose bibb and we'll have ideas on the backflow prevention.
 

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jmastron said:
It's a bit hard to tell in the picture, but it looks like there might already be a vacuum breaker
Click to expand...
There is a vacuum breaker
ladylonghorn said:
So are you saying it was built wrong in the first place already because all that is there is what is pictured?
Click to expand...
Unfortunately yes. A quick internet search for Frisco Texas shows that they amended their backflow regulation and require an rpz backflow or double check backflow be installed AND annually inspected at any potential cross connection as of April 2022
You have options,
1. Diy it as it was which risks backflow and is non compliant (which per the April resolution states is subject to fines and penalties)
2. Diy middle ground and add a pressure vacuum breaker with test ports such as Zurn Wilkins 34-720A 3/4" 720A Pressure Vacuum Breaker Assembly https://a.co/d/iSj3iTa this would take more plumbing (probably remove the one bib, add a brass nipple and brass tee pointed up to the pvb then swap to pvc and connect to your existing line.
3. Pro plumber with double check backflow, permit, annual inspections and some pvc artistry
Zurn Wilkins 34-350 3/4" 350 Double Check Backflow Preventer https://a.co/d/2RhQRPy
 
In this case a pressure vac breaker BFP is overkill. A cheap sprinkler valve with an anti-siphon component can be used, since there is no auto-fill valve at the pool, downstream of the sprinkler valve. About 18 bucks at HD or Lowes. (I can't speak to the code-compliance aspect, just what will work and what is safe.)

Plumb the valve to the PVC pipe sticking out of the ground (observe the flow arrows) and then connect that to your hose-bib. The sprinkler valve should be about a foot or higher above the coping if there is room for that. You can use a flexible chunk of hose to connect the hose bib to the sprinkler valve, but it'll be subject to UV degradation after a few years. A proper PVC connection would be better, if you can manage it. But when you say "cut the PVC and using plumbers putty" it's clear you need a lesson in assembling PVC pipe and fittings. It's not hard and there will be 1000s of YouTube videos on the subject. $300 seems outrageous to me, too, but that is probably in line with "the going rate." That being described best as "they got you by the short ones and can charge whatever they want now-a-days."


You could even add a timer to the Orbit and get a little automation going, so that your pool receives X amount of water each day, so that you don't have to go out there every day and turn the valve (or forget to turn it off!). If you already have a set of sprinkler valves for your garden, run by a timer, you can run a wire to that and use that timer.

If you don't like the prices you're getting from plumbers, a decent gardener/handyman could do all this for you in an hour or two. $50/hr x 2 = $100? That would seem about right to me.
 
I actually don't consider they built anything incorrectly at the pool. Having the outlet in the skimmer is no better or worse than having it out in the edge tile somewhere. It's not an air gap, that's true. But with any sort of BFP upstream of it, it's an acceptable configuration. Where you got shorted was at the other end, by the hose bib. That's where your builder dropped the ball.

Now if local codes mandate a certain type of BFP to comply, I would not discourage you from following that to the letter, however unnecessary it might seem to be. It's likely the fines if you got caught with something less would exceed doing it right in the first place.
 
By the way, are these codes "retroactive" or do they only apply to new construction? If the latter, you might have some discretion as to how much money you need to spend.
 
The other skimmer has a drain so if the water is too high, it automatically drains from the pool. Wouldn't that solve the issue of water getting to high and then pushing up the supply? Said another way, that hole where water would come directly from the outside facet is higher then the drain.
 
ladylonghorn said:
The other skimmer has a drain so if the water is too high, it automatically drains from the pool. Wouldn't that solve the issue of water getting to high and then pushing up the supply? Said another way, that hole where water would come directly from the outside facet is higher then the drain.
Click to expand...
You could go as @Dirk Suggested and use a simple manual sprinkler anti siphon valve. Does your hose bib unscrew? If so you could take it off put a nipple and tee in line pointed up going I to the sprinkler valve then back down to your pvc.
 
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ladylonghorn said:
The other skimmer has a drain so if the water is too high, it automatically drains from the pool. Wouldn't that solve the issue of water getting to high and then pushing up the supply? Said another way, that hole where water would come directly from the outside facet is higher then the drain.
Click to expand...
That assumes the outflow would never get clogged, or that a very hard rain would not max the outflow. My overflow stopped working some time last year because the other end got stopped up by mud and weeds from my garden. And I just didn't notice it, even though my pool level was quite high. Doh! You have to account for any sort of off-chance problem plus human error.

You need backflow prevention whenever there is even a remote possibility of backflow.

I wrote about it here:

Monitoring an Auto-Fill System

There is a school of thought, especially among pool builders, that an auto-filler is a bad thing. I think the primary reason used is that they can fail, and if your pool also has any sort of overflow protection, that the auto-filler could then pump untold gallons of water to waste. And that you...
www.troublefreepool.com www.troublefreepool.com
 
As suggested, there are sprinkler valves with built in back flow prevention. If you already have an irrigation system and can connect it to the new valve, you will be able to turn on the water using an app if the irrigation controller is smart (Wi-Fi). You can also just open the irrigation valve by manually twisting the valve on top without any power connections.
 
I agree with others here. From a functional standpoint, you need backflow prevention because there isn't enough guaranteed "air gap" (as mentioned, imagine the drain clogged with debris from the same storm that takes out/reverses the city water pressure). However the pipe also isn't constantly backpressured (by a valve or the pool level being higher), so a "vacuum breaker" style (either built in to a sprinkler valve or host-bibb attached) should be sufficient. In that sense it's not really different from an underground sprinkler system post-valve lateral that usually has standing water in it.

IMPORTANT: Either vacuum breaker type must be *after* the last valve. If you put a splitter on the hose bibb that has its own valves or use a dual timer like I have, the vacuum breaker(s) must be on the output side of that splitter. In that case you can remove the one that's already on the bibb and attach the splitter directly with vacuum breakers on the outputs.

I'd lean toward the simpler splitter or standalone timer vs a sprinkler valve, because it's probably not as schedulable. Unless you have a controller nearby and easily accessible (or an app-based controller), it's going to be more fiddly to find and set how long to run each time you see it needs some.

Having said all that, I don't know whether Frisco's backflow ordinances are more stringent than what would be required anywhere else and might technically require a real pressure-capable backflow device.
 
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