New spa- Why bother with Dichlor? Why not CYA and bleach

Kidneydoc

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Aug 29, 2013
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I am a long time TFP desciple with a pool. Recently moved and now bought a swim spa (1200 gallons). It is Master Spa with Ozone. After reading about the problems with FC burning with Ozone, I feel I should turn it off. I am well versed using hte TFT-100 kit and testing for FC/CC/CYA, etc and am comfortable with daily testing.

Is the prevaling view of the experts to just disable the Ozone and add bleach with hot tube use? Also, it seems I should remove (not use) the "EcoPure" filter instert that adds copper and zinc to the pool. Is this correct as well?

Also, what is expert view on 20 mule team Borax vs the liquid (Gentle Spa) for adding borates? I used to use 20 mule team borax and lots of acid (at time of adding) for my old pool.

Thanks
 
If you use your hot tub a lot and keep it covered when not in use then an Ozonator can help, however if you only soak in it on the weekends, etc. then an Ozonator will actually consume more chlorine than the tub would use to oxidize bather waste if you did not have one. Also unlike Ozonators for pools, ones built for hot tubs are relatively cheap.

 
You can most certainly do that- I do that sometimes. It’s best to use a scale to measure your dose since it’s such a small amount and it’s easy to really overshoot.
most people who only have spas don’t often have stabilzer laying around nor do they generally wish to purchase 4 or 5 lbs of it to use a tablespoon every few months but they often already have dichlor thus the advice. I have mentioned that it should be coined the “achieve 30ppm cya then chlorinate via bleach/swg method” but it doesn’t have the same ring to it as the “dichlor then bleach method” 😁
 
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the prevaling view of the experts to just disable the Ozone
Depends on the "expert". I swear by them, but not for the reasons you think.
If you want it to save you chlorine, or think it means you don't need it at all, get rid of it as that's not what it does. This is where most "experts" say to get rid of it. It does not signifigantly reduce the need for chemical sanitizers or the amounts you will use, in fact it increases the amount I use, and it can be expensive to replace, so it is worse than useless in their eyes. It was originally marketed as a chlorine alternative, as it is used in closed water treatment facilities. This is no longer effective sanitation when people jump in the tank, so it was not approved as a sanitizer in a pool or spa. It is, however, still a stronger oxidizer than chlorine and does have sanitizing capability when maintaining a closed spa, with few contaminants able to get in with the cover on.
If you like not having to shock, keep it, and run it 24/7.
If you like the smell of chlorine, definitely get rid of it.
If you like being able to heavily chlorinate after heavy use and not have fc too high to use the next day when you get in, keep it, and run it 24/7.
It seems to me that those who dislike ozone are looking at what it doesn't do, not what it does.
In a pool it's useless. Low bather/volume ratio means your fc almost never goes low from use, and complete depletion (normal in a spa) is rare. Reducing fc in this case is counter-productive.
In a poorly designed spa or on a short timer, it's useless. Ozone exposure occurs in the pipes, so the more water moving through the ozone injector for longer periods, the more effective ozone is. Masters has a 24/7 circulation system and can benefit greatly from ozone.
In a spa that is often used, heavily used, or infrequently used it is worth it's weight in gold in my opinion. I have kids, and my fc is going to be "negative" by the time they're done in there even if I start with 10ppm. I can't test my chlorine demand, I just know I have 0 fc and an unknown level of contaminants waiting to use up my chlorine. I might "raise" it by 10ppm and end up at 9 or 2, or maybe still zero if they brought in a dog or three when I wasn't looking. And telling them they can't use it today because fc is too high, or I need to shock, or etc. is an inconvenience to say the least. But with good ozone on 24/7 I can hit it hard after use and still have 0.5fc and 0.0cc the next day. Everyday. Regardless of specifics. And if we don't use it, I just ignore it. I add chems when I use it, with weekly balance, and don't even test chlorine frequently as I know what it will be (0.5fc, 0.0cc unless I went too crazy on the bleach). I won't keep a spa without it, and every one of my top brands has 24/7 ozone. So, the way I use it, getting rid of the chlorine in the water is the whole point. I don't want or need it there. If you want a higher fc during use, add some when you open the cover.
In case you were wondering, I've been fixing spas for a living, including flipping used tubs, for 26 years. I've owned more spas than I can remember, and am no chemistry guru who likes playing with a test kit. I want it simple. That's what I get with ozone.
 
So my new Master Spa has two filters. One has the EcoPure insert. I do not want to use this. Can I just remove the EcoPure insert and still use the filter, or do I have to buy a new filter that does not have the EcoPure insert?

Thanks
 
Reading the Swim Spa manual it looks like you can run the filter without the EcoPure insert.

Or leave the EcoPure insert in the filter and let it deplete its copper and zinc and never replace it.
 
Any tips on best way to disable (turn off) the ozone in a Master Spa trainer 12 (2021 model)?

Reading the Swim Spa manual it looks like you need to physically disconnect the O3 generator.
 
Thanks for the above tips. I may need to get a spa person to help me disable the ozone. I can take the cover panel off the spa, but not not sure exactly what to disconnect . Any tips on this or should I just get a pro to help me?

Also....for the moderator....sorry for the duplicate posts.....my error....and thanks for combining my posts!
 

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Thanks for the above tips. I may need to get a spa person to help me disable the ozone. I can take the cover panel off the spa, but not not sure exactly what to disconnect . Any tips on this or should I just get a pro to help me?

See page 123 in the manual...

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So, should I just take out he UV lamp and reassembe the unit without the bulb?

UV is different then Ozone.

Outdoor pools get enough free UV from the sun. If your swim spa water is not exposed to the sun then a UV lamp will help eliminate the CCs.
 
It can occasionally be useful to have ozone in a spa, as it can help break down CCs. It is definitely NOT required though. If my ozone generator on my prior spa was functional, I would have tried it (while also maintaining appropriate FC), but I didn’t go buy a replacement ozone module. You could try it both ways.

What I 100% recommend is a SWCG. I used a Saltron Mini, which just drapes over the wall and hangs in the water inside. What I needed to do was still add liquid chlorine after our soaks, as it was usually two of us at about 100 °F for 2-4 hours. Or sometimes more people for even longer, and I needed to add FC during use, as such use could use ALL FC in the tub, even if I took it to SLAM level before we got in (which I also always did if it was more than just my wife and I). The extra Fc after you get out is to burn waste left in the water, which takes time to break down. The Saltron Mini then held the FC between uses so we didn’t have to add any manually.

As to the CYA, you can certainly use straight CYA. In fact, I switched over to doing so, even though I had dichlor left. I found it easier to calculate the 30-40 ppm of CYA on a fresh fill with PoolMath. I would then weigh off the CYA on a gram scale and add it. I’d put it in the filter compartment and run both jet pumps on high. It would be dissolved within about half an hour.

Same for salt. I needed about 9 lbs of salt on a fresh fill of my 450 gallon tub. I’d use a kitchen scale and large kitchen bowl to weigh off the salt, then like the CYA I dumped it in the filter compartment and ran the jet pumps on high. It would be completely dissolved in about 20 minutes.

Liquid chlorine and acid I’d run both jet pumps on high, diverters to send water out of all hets, and quickly pour towards the middle of the tub, spreading around just a bit but not too worried, and run the pumps for a couple minutes. On my run I watched with a pH meter at the water entering the filters after adding acid. With both pumps on high, the water would be fully mixed and pH stopped changing in about a minute. So unlike the pool where I had to slowly pour acid in front of the return, the spa is nice as you can just dump it and run the jet pumps and it’ll all mix in almost immediately.
 
Jesyfert3- you are my kind of pool guy. I just put my Amazon order in for the Saltron Mini. I am just worried that the ozone generator is going to mess up my FC every day. I guess the SWG will compensate for that. It seems the UV light not a big problem, but Ozone may be. I plan to do what you describe....use CYA to get to 30 then bleach to get baseline FC and /or shock when needed. I also plan to add boric acid (Gentle spa instead of 20 Mule teamBorax due to pH balanced and small volume needed (so cost not big issue). Basically, copying what i did for my pools in the past. I also plan to use the the ahhsome Aqua Clarity system for purge and weekly clean as it seems to be an awesome product.

Just this Ozone thing is scaring me. I wish I can make a switch just to flip it off. Hoping someone can give me an easy way to turn this off.
 
20 mule team Borax lists Sodium tetraborate decahydrate 60-100% on MSDS. I dont know about Gentle Spa. There's a frequently recommended chem dealer for boric acid though using it isn't universally condoned.

Just curious, are your filters identical except for the EcoPur cartridge? My tub has one filter and I was considering finding a filter replacement without EcoPur...

You can definitely use just CYA as stated above. Good idea if you already have it on hand for your pool. Again like above, it comes with may tubs in a starter kit so it's already there when a newbie hollers halp! 💁‍♂️

As in the above pic on the ozone generator, you can find it and follow the wiring back to the main board. On that main board it's connections are probably faston or molex, or maybe there's a fuse. If all that sounds comfortably familiar you may be qualified to disconnect it, otherwise know opening the controller unit exposes you to dangerous high voltage ... easily lethal. So, if you know what you're doing turn off both breakers, measure mains on the controller board to make sure, and have at it.

On the SWG, will it void your warranty? I'd want to consider that also. I believe it's been said elsewhere that salt systems will reduce the lifespan of your heater element, just an FYI.

Congrats on your new spa purchase, enjoy!
 
Still waiting to get my new Master Spa swim spa's power wired up. However, I am going to disable the ozone/UV system before I start up the tub. I know how to just pull the ozone unit power off the main control board. I got that. My question is about the venturi port that would inject (or suck in) the ozone. I plan on just plugging it up with ? a rubber stopper or a short piece of hose with a bolt in the open end. Any suggestions on best way for this or just MacGyver whatever works to plug up the port. I just dont want extra bubbles of air being sucked in to raise my pH more than needed.
 
Still waiting to get my new Master Spa swim spa's power wired up. However, I am going to disable the ozone/UV system before I start up the tub. I know how to just pull the ozone unit power off the main control board. I got that. My question is about the venturi port that would inject (or suck in) the ozone. I plan on just plugging it up with ? a rubber stopper or a short piece of hose with a bolt in the open end. Any suggestions on best way for this or just MacGyver whatever works to plug up the port. I just dont want extra bubbles of air being sucked in to raise my pH more than needed.

It's a closed system with a check valve in the output side hose. Under normal operation the check valve eventually fails and water will damage the ozone module. With it disconnected that check valve might last forever, but if not and it fails, the risk is damaging an ozone module you don't plan on ever using.

Short answer, you can plug the hose with a golf tee or screw/bolt with the module power up side disconnected.
 
I have a Bullfrog with EOS which is reasonably poweful, I can consume about 6-7 PPM of fc if I run at 24 hour filtration.
The feature I *really* wish the firmware had is the ability to say whether ozone is enabled or disabled for a given filter program. That way if I'm shocking or trying to clear CCs I can hit it hard and filter 24x7 with ozone, but on the flip side if water and filter are clean and I'm going out of town and just trying to circulate water, I can run short filtration cycles with no ozone and not worry about rapid fc depletion while away. Or I can program something in the middle during the week, like a short afternoon no-ozone filtration cycle that gets stuff out of the water before bathing, and a late night filtration cycle with ozone that would help break down any bathing contaminants.
But I guess I'm a nerd like that

I'm contemplating wiring in a cutoff toggle switch that I can velcro into the front panel and have the toggle poke out one of my panel vents. I figure I can even get a DPST lighted switch so that with the neutral an indicator light tells me when it's on, and know that I'm breaking both ends of the connection. Haven't poked around at the EOS generator to look at the voltage parameters I need for the switch though, and whether I would want to ground the switch to make sure a GFI will trip if there is an issue like a loose connector.
 
I got my swim spa working. I pulled the power off of the ozone and plugged the venturi intake. Easy to control FC now with bleach. Going to add Saltron Mini soon as well. Ozone = too many uncontrollable varaibles (..in my personal calculation). I see FC on test results, I know bugs will be killed.
 
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