Better understanding of the TFP Method

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Michaelg90

Well-known member
Mar 10, 2019
104
Orlando
So reading the pool school PDF off amazon and reading this site for better of a half a year I still have trouble understanding the FC and PH testing sced.

Normally I test my FC twice to three times a week and PH twice. Usually Tuesday and Saturday.

I normally only use liquid bleach however given the rains and hurricane here in FL the CYA dropped to 20 (my pool has an automatic overflow value to drain water, so there has been some turnover). I only check that once a month so I used some pucks that I had since I never used them when they were bought once I discovered TFP. Now it is 40.

My question is if the FC/CYA chart states I have to keep 3-7 FC, how often should I check the PH? I ask this simple beginner question because in my experience so far of switching to bleach I have found my PH to be higher and reaches 8 within two days or so. This has led to some scale (see previous post). My TA is currently 70 and CH 200. My understanding is the addition of liquid FC temporarily affects the PH until used up. So if I come home today for example and the FC is 2, I add the required amount to raise to 3/4 when will the PH test be accurate again? When it goes back down to 2?

Second question, given the lower CH levels of 200, that is currently at lower end. Should I increase this and if so I was thinking of diluting some powered shock instead of buying calcium and using that since it contains the calcium and will allow me to not use some liquid for a few days. What would I raise it to if needed to be increased? If I converted the product into ounces correctly on the app I believe one bag of Leslie’s shock would increase CH 10ppm.

I saw a post earlier in my research of tabs versus liquid and here in FL water isn’t super expensive. I would like to determine the cost of a year worth of tabs/partial drains/acid versus liquid/acid/CYA to see if I would come ahead. It’s tough to come home each day and pour and place bleach plus every two or three days acid.

Just want to make sure I have the proper schedule down pat. Thank you guys very much. Look forward to your response.
 
Hiya Michael,
Welcome to TFP!
An expert will probably chime in soon, but bleach will not affect your PH much, if at all. If your FC is over 10 then your PH test will not be accurate.

I doubt you will need to raise your CH but will leave that to an expert, I have a vinyl pool. Mainly check pool school about CSI recommendations for your finish and keep within the proper range.

If your CYA is low, it is perfectly fine to use tabs to raise your FC and CYA at the same time. Many use them while on vacation etc. I think the main caveat about tabs and cya is that the owner understands the effects of each chemical added and monitors their levels personally versus using test strips and pool store readings.

Good luck!
 
When using pucks/tabs, they are acidic by nature and lower pH normally with use. Then when folks switch to other methods, such as TFP, and go liquid chlorine they think its raising the pH level. I'd say *that* pH level is more accurate and the puck one was artificially lowered by the puck use.
 
You're in an unusual situation because of the amount of rain FLorida gets and that you do have an overflow drain for all that extra water. That does provide you room to play around with products..... AS LONG AS YOU KNOW WHAT TO EXPECT and you USE YOUR TEST KIT TO MONITOR it..... you'll be fine. When things get too high or low you'll know you have to adjust your product use.

The entire tenet of TFP is knowing what's in your water and what you're putting in there, and what result you expect. And not putting anything in to your water that it doesn't need.

Maddie :flower:
 
www.troublefreepool.com

Basic Pool Care Schedule

This basic pool care schedule can guide you in creating your own pool care routine. Regular pool maintenance will keep your water sparkling!
www.troublefreepool.com www.troublefreepool.com

Michaelg90 said:
My question is if the FC/CYA chart states I have to keep 3-7 FC, how often should I check the PH? I ask this simple beginner question because in my experience so far of switching to bleach I have found my PH to be higher and reaches 8 within two days or so. This has led to some scale (see previous post). My TA is currently 70 and CH 200. My understanding is the addition of liquid FC temporarily affects the PH until used up. So if I come home today for example and the FC is 2, I add the required amount to raise to 3/4 when will the PH test be accurate again? When it goes back down to 2?
Click to expand...

You need to learn how rapidly your pH rises. I know I can lower my pH to 7.6 and in 3-4 days it will be at 8. It is predictable and I check my pH twice a week, get the reading I expect and lower the pH.

If you are getting scale then it is not simply a pH issue. You can manage other chemicals to lower your CSI and keep it out of scaling values.

Michaelg90 said:
Second question, given the lower CH levels of 200, that is currently at lower end. Should I increase this and if so I was thinking of diluting some powered shock instead of buying calcium and using that since it contains the calcium and will allow me to not use some liquid for a few days. What would I raise it to if needed to be increased? If I converted the product into ounces correctly on the app I believe one bag of Leslie’s shock would increase CH 10ppm.
Click to expand...

What is the pH, TA, CH of your fill water?

For every 3 ppm of FC you will rasie CH by 2 ppm using cal-hypo. You can use it for about a month to raise your CH up above 250.

Michaelg90 said:
I saw a post earlier in my research of tabs versus liquid and here in FL water isn’t super expensive. I would like to determine the cost of a year worth of tabs/partial drains/acid versus liquid/acid/CYA to see if I would come ahead. It’s tough to come home each day and pour and place bleach plus every two or three days acid.
Click to expand...

TFPC Methods are about giving the easiest pool care, not necessarily the least expensive. You have to figure out what works for your situation.

Note that for every 3 ppm of CL from trichlor you get 2 ppm of CYA. If your pool needs 2-3 ppm a day of CL then your CYA will be over 60 in a month or two. So you are looking to partially drain your pool every month or so.

Cost Comparison of Chlorine Sources

I originally posted the following on another forum (I thought I also posted it here, but can't find it). First, I describe exactly what is in chlorinating liquid and bleach as far as we know. I'll use 12.5% chlorinating liquid as an example. This link is a typical example. Though they do not...
www.troublefreepool.com www.troublefreepool.com

The costs may be a bit dated but the thread gives you the methodology.

Many of us have a SWG to not deal with adding liquid chlorine every day or the effects of using trichlor.
 
So let’s walk through an example:

if Its the evening of day 1 and I have zero FC (to make it simple)and I bring this to 3 for my CYA level of 40 and the pool has PH is 7.5.

When I come back to the pool the next evening to check FC and it states 2 and PH is the same or slightly below 7.8. I would add only the FC to bring back to 3.

Day 3 FC dropped to 2 agian but I notice the PH is 8 or 7.9. This is not from FC and I should be adding poolmath app recommended level to bring down to 7.5 or so as well as FC correct?

Maybe my pool just needs more acid as I just feel it needs it every 3rd day or so.
 
YippeeSkippy said:
Are you running any water features such as spa spill overs or fountains? Is the pool new and still curing? Lots of kids swimming and splashing?
All of those will raise your pH.

Maddie :flower:
Click to expand...

Pool was finished being built second week of Feb. so 7 months old. I have turned off fountains (we have 3) no kids, but no screen so lots of Florida heat but no trees around so no leaves or organics.
 
New plaster takes a year or more to cure during which time it has a natural pH rise.

You have an autofill? What is the pH and TA if your fill water?

What is the TA of your pool? You can’t discuss pH without knowing TA.

If you are expecting a plaster pool to have stable pH, most do not.
 
ajw22 said:
New plaster takes a year or more to cure during which time it has a natural pH rise.

You have an autofill? What is the pH and TA if your fill water?

What is the TA of your pool? You can’t discuss pH without knowing TA.

If you are expecting a plaster pool to have stable pH, most do not.
Click to expand...

My fill water has a PH of 6.8, TA of 120 and CH of 100.

My TA right now is 70
 

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Do you have an autofill?

What % acid do you use?
 
ajw22 said:
New plaster takes a year or more to cure during which time it has a natural pH rise.

You have an autofill? What is the pH and TA if your fill water?

What is the TA of your pool? You can’t discuss pH without knowing TA.

If you are expecting a plaster pool to have stable pH, most do not.
Click to expand...

I use 31.45 MA and yes I have an auto fill. The auto fill is what has drained a good deal of water plus the builder had to drain 20% because of an area under some rock formations we have that I didn’t like how it cured so they touched up a few areas with fresh plaster. We’re talking small amounts though. So I believe the turnover is what caused by CYA to lower with all the rain plus the CH as well since the fill water has low CH of only 100.
 
Michaelg90 said:
I use 31.45 MA and yes I have an auto fill. The auto fill is what has drained a good deal of water plus the builder had to drain 20% because of an area under some rock formations we have that I didn’t like how it cured so they touched up a few areas with fresh plaster. We’re talking small amounts though. So I believe the turnover is what caused by CYA to lower with all the rain plus the CH as well since the fill water has low CH of only 100.
Click to expand...


An overflow drain, not an autofill, is what lets water out of your pool.

You don't know how much water the autofill adds to makeup for evaporation.

TA 120 fill water will cause your pH to rise, even though the fill water pH is 6.8.

Overall I don't hear any problem. Your pool pH behavior is pretty normal.
 
ajw22 said:
An overflow drain, not an autofill, is what lets water out of your pool.

You don't know how much water the autofill adds to makeup for evaporation.

TA 120 fill water will cause your pH to rise, even though the fill water pH is 6.8.

Overall I don't hear any problem. Your pool pH behavior is pretty normal.
Click to expand...
Yes I’m sorry, we have both an overflow and auto fill. So let me ask another question. Give the TA of the fill water, due to the PH rise it has been difficult to keep TA at 80 or 90. It usually decreases back down to 70/60 with two 1/2 cups of acid or so a week. In about two weeks it will decrease. Should I keep the TA at 70 and once it drops back down to 60/50 raise back up to 70? That’s been an ongoing battle for me. Hovers in that 60/70 range.

Secondly, you recommend using the powder shock as I mentioned for a month or so this way I can slowly increase the CH?

Thanks
 
TA as low as 50 is fine. Leave your TA alone as you lower pH. Chances are your water will find an equilibrium with TA around 60. If you are increasing TA you are contributing to your pH rise.

Do whatever is most convenient for you to raise CH to at least 250.

Is the Leslie shock you are thinking of using Dichlor or Cal-hypo?
 
Last edited:
ajw22 said:
TA as low as 50 is fine. Leave your TA alone as you lower pH. Chances are your water will find an equilibrium with TA around 60. If you are increasing TA you are contributing to your pH rise.

Do whatever is most convenient for you to raise CH to at least 250.

Is the Leslie shock you are thinking of using Dichlor or Cal-hypo?
Click to expand...
Cal hypo: It would be Leslie’s powder plus. Just have to see how much I have to put in.
 
ajw22 said:
TA as low as 50 is fine. Leave your TA alone as you lower pH. Chances are your water will find an equilibrium with TA around 60. If you are increasing TA you are contributing to your pH rise.

Do whatever is most convenient for you to raise CH to at least 250.

Is the Leslie shock you are thinking of using Dichlor or Cal-hypo?
Click to expand...

Would be safe to assume I would only raise TA if my CSI index drops below -.30? 60 seems to be the cutoff for that. Below that it goes beyond -.30
 
Michaelg90 said:
Would be safe to assume I would only raise TA if my CSI index drops below -.30? 60 seems to be the cutoff for that. Below that it goes beyond -.30
Click to expand...

Don’t raise your TA to raise CSI. Run a higher pH or raise your CH some.
 
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