Background: I have a 24k gallon pool. When i first moved in I noticed a visible air leak from the suction side. I noticed that the lid to the pool was cracked, so i bought a replacement from amazon and changed it. Worked for about six months but i seem to have developed a new air leak. I have tried water, shaving cream, and soapy water at every connection, but can seem to locate the leak. I do have a little water leak on the outlet. Could that be the cause of my problem? Also when i try to vacuum the pool i get even more air bubbles, almost to the point where the pump runs dry.
Suction Side Air leak
- Thread starter rfcmagic
- Start date
- Jun 22, 2014
- 47,759
- Pool Size
- 17888
- Surface
- Fiberglass
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- CircuPool RJ-45 Plus
Welcome! 
Do you have any other valves or accessories before the pump that could contribute to a leak? And of course, is the pool water level high enough in the skimmer mouth and the weir door operating properly?
Now would be a good time to update your signature with all of your pool and equipmente info as well.
If that is on the exit end of the pump - no. But when you changed the lid, did you apply pool silicone to the o-ring? Did you check the pump basket drain plug(s) o-rings as well?
Do you have any other valves or accessories before the pump that could contribute to a leak? And of course, is the pool water level high enough in the skimmer mouth and the weir door operating properly?
Now would be a good time to update your signature with all of your pool and equipmente info as well.
Not uncommon to see more air in the pump basket when vacuuming as those products aren't as air-tight, but the basket certainly should not run dry. I would focus on the potential suction side leak first, then once you know that's good-to-go, we can come back and investgate the vacuuming situation.
I finally chased down a suction side leak last year. I have 4 Jandy valves on the suction side and bought a big set of o-rings, took each apart, and replaced all the o-rings and lubed them in silicone grease. It's a little tedious but not that bad. It had never been done in 15 years. The last one I got to was the culprit and it was like it didn't have any o-rings at all (PB?) and I wasn't sure how it ever functioned properly. They never leaked or squirted when the equipment was shut off and I could not find the sucton leak with a hose. But it is now gone after the o-ring replacement.
This guy has a technique I have never tried:
This guy has a technique I have never tried:
- May 3, 2014
- 58,307
- Pool Size
- 6000
- Surface
- Fiberglass
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-40
Read the Suction Side Air Leaks article in Pool School. Explains the same process as shown on the linked YouTube. Plus others.
- Oct 25, 2015
- 5,131
- Pool Size
- 25000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- CircuPool RJ-60 Plus
RF,
Another new member, welcome to TFP! It will help our experts to answer your questions more quickly if you can please add information about your installation. Info like pool type, size, equipment brands and model numbers will save a cycle of asking you that information.
I would suggest you check your hose connections. If you're getting more bubbles when you vacuum that's often the culprit. The part of the hose that floats on the surface can suck in air at the connections and the hose itself can have pin holes. If you have a sectioned hose take out sections one-at-a time you can find the bad section. If it's a very old pool... may just be time to replace. Also, if you have a suction side cleaner you could have the same issue with your cleaner hose.
I hope this is helpful.
Chris
So when I first bought the new lid, i used the old O-Ring, and I put lubricant. When the leak developed I went out, and bout a new O-Ring. I thought that would have solved my problem, but it didn't. I bought a new vacuum hose as well. So then I tried checking all the joints. I tried the water method, shaving cream, plastic wrap, and soapy water. None of them showed me where the leak was. The reason I want to know where that leak is, its because i was getting ready to install a new heater, and variable speed pump. I was also going to change all the valves, and install new jandy never lube valves. I just dont want to have all that installed and find out I still have an air leak. How possible is it that the leak may be underground?Welcome!
If that is on the exit end of the pump - no. But when you changed the lid, did you apply pool silicone to the o-ring? Did you check the pump basket drain plug(s) o-rings as well?
Do you have any other valves or accessories before the pump that could contribute to a leak? And of course, is the pool water level high enough in the skimmer mouth and the weir door operating properly?
Now would be a good time to update your signature with all of your pool and equipmente info as well.
Not uncommon to see more air in the pump basket when vacuuming as those products aren't as air-tight, but the basket certainly should not run dry. I would focus on the potential suction side leak first, then once you know that's good-to-go, we can come back and investgate the vacuuming situation.
Hi Chris.
So I would like to mention i have a 24k gallon plaster pool. The pool does have a spa, but there is no water heater in place. The pool is currently using an old Century Centurion pool and spa pump. The pump seems to be very old, I cant seem to locate the model number. The pool also has old U-Pvc ball valves. Pretty much all of the have the handles broken. I have to use a tool to grip them, and turn it. The valves may be original equipment. I have a Hayward swim clear cartridge filter, the model is c2020. I would also like to note that i bought this house about a year ago. The house is 30+ years old, so I'm guessing the pool is too. I attached pictures of the current mess i am trying to clean up. Hope this helped a bit.
Attachments
It could be underground. Post pics or your pad. Tell us what you have for in pool how many skimmers main drains etc. How many returns. How is it all tied together
- Oct 25, 2015
- 5,131
- Pool Size
- 25000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- CircuPool RJ-60 Plus
RF,
Your plumbing is definitely showing its age. If and when you replace the pump you should at least redo the valves with broken handles. Better yet, replace with pool valves instead of the standard PVC quarter-turn ball valves. You mentioned you have more bubbles when you vacuum but when you're not vacuuming do you have the suction side connection closed? If not, you should do this so you can isolate the vacuum problem from the other leak. I would use the water drip test and start at the lowest point. Yes it's always possible air could leak in underground piping but you'll want to be sure you've thoroughly checked all the simple stuff twice before you go that route. I'll see if I can ping a couple of other experts to weigh in on this also @mas985 @Teald024 .
I hope this helps.
Chris
Your plumbing is definitely showing its age. If and when you replace the pump you should at least redo the valves with broken handles. Better yet, replace with pool valves instead of the standard PVC quarter-turn ball valves. You mentioned you have more bubbles when you vacuum but when you're not vacuuming do you have the suction side connection closed? If not, you should do this so you can isolate the vacuum problem from the other leak. I would use the water drip test and start at the lowest point. Yes it's always possible air could leak in underground piping but you'll want to be sure you've thoroughly checked all the simple stuff twice before you go that route. I'll see if I can ping a couple of other experts to weigh in on this also @mas985 @Teald024 .
I hope this helps.
Chris
A suction leak CAN be underground but virtually never is. If it's not the pump basket lid or drain valves, it is frequently at a cracked or poorly glued joint.
You also have a leak in your vac hose but remove that from the system entirely, find your suction leak, then hook vac back up and find that leak.
You also have a leak in your vac hose but remove that from the system entirely, find your suction leak, then hook vac back up and find that leak.
Ill definitely post some pictures tomorrow. I do have one skimmer. On the deep side of the pool i have two drains. They seem to connect underground because there is only one valve for those drains. The spa also has two drains but they also seem to be connected together underground. I have a couple pool jets, and one return. I really suck at explaining so tomorrow I will be taking many pictures.
- May 3, 2014
- 58,307
- Pool Size
- 6000
- Surface
- Fiberglass
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-40
The drains are installed to meet the VGBA (Virginia Graeme Baker Act) federal requirement. Not sure what you mean by pool jets and a return. Most returns to the pool body of water are simple eyeball returns. The spa typically has 6 or more adjustable jets.
Yes, I am actually replacing all the valves. I am replacing all the valves, and running 2" PVC all around because the previous owner downsized it to 1.5" for some reason. When I vacuum I usually just connect the hose to the skimmer. When I close the main drain valve to get more suction that is when I get the most air at the pump basket. Even if i dont vacuum and all the valves are open i still get air in the system. Ill go back tomorrow and give it another check. I think it might be possible I may have several suction leaks and that's why I havent been able to isolate the exact spot.
Sorry about that, I am not to familiar with the exact terminology. In that case pool must have 4 returns then. One of the returns does not have an eyeball. Instead, it seems to be 2" female threaded.
- May 3, 2014
- 58,307
- Pool Size
- 6000
- Surface
- Fiberglass
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-40
The return with the female thread, is that a pressure side cleaner port? Do you have a booster pump to run a cleaner? It could also have been a suction side cleaner port, but there would not be any flow out of it. You would have a line with a valve on it on your suction side to control it.
I will be trying this tomorrow. I tried it starting from the lowest point, but I try his technique now.
I believe it is a pressure side cleaner port. I do not have a booster pump though. There is no suction from that. Most of the water seems to return from that return. It is also the return the releases the most air bubbles.
- May 3, 2014
- 58,307
- Pool Size
- 6000
- Surface
- Fiberglass
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-40
The air goes that way as it is the path of least resistance. Was the booster pump removed?
- Oct 25, 2015
- 5,131
- Pool Size
- 25000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- CircuPool RJ-60 Plus
RF,
I would get a 2" plug and isolate that section of pipe if you can. On this age of pool, as Marty indicated that should be a pressure connection that would have been connected to a separate booster pump at one time to power a Polaris or something similar. It would normally be connected to the discharge of your filter pump then flow to a booster pump which in turn flows to the connection in the pool. Point is this should be connected to the pressure side of your pump and therefore it could not be a source of air intrusion. When you connect the vacuum hose it creates more bubbles is normally a hose leak or hose connection leak of some kind. If the hose and hose connections are definitely not the problem, then the additional pressure drop in the suction side from the vacuum and hose would require more vacuum which would in-turn make the air leak point suck in more air. This can also be why you are getting more bubbles when the vacuum is connected. It's less common but could be why you get more bubbles with the vacuum connected. This all leads back to the suction side of the pump, including the pump flange o-rings and the drain plug. I would perform the water hos drip to check everything again starting at the very lowest potential leak source such as the pump plug and housing. Looks like the valve with the mangled handle is pretty low too. This valve could have also been exposed to more stress with leverage from the wrenches used to turn it. Your leak could be at the normal locations where a seal in a valve handle, or cover, or pump flange, or PVC joint is located. Or in an older installation like this it could be a crack in any part of the pump or any of the components that is very hard to see. Last time I found a leak like this it was so minute you couldn't see it until the part was removed. But the water drip test was conclusive.
I hope this helps.
Chris