Terminating Builder

[SoDel]

That's what really tweaks my melons these days. No matter how incompetent or lazy a PB was, the have an easy out in court blaming the shortages.

Whether it's materials or labor, or inexperienced labor filling in for the shortage of labor, they have a blanket excuse that the judge has seen in their own life. The judge will think to themselves that nobody gets anything done quickly or cheap these days, and rarely with the proper parts, as they side with PB.

I got a lot of that “supply chain” and “labor shortage” during my build. The incoming invoices and immediate change order upcharge paperwork, however, had no supply chain issues lol. The pool came out “ok,” but for what it cost, the wife and I just call it “the pandemic pool” and move on to thinking about something else.

 

[JamesW]

If you get to the point where you don’t like someone and you don’t trust them and you don’t want to deal with them anymore, you can fire them and you have to deal with the consequences, which can mean extra costs depending on why you are terminating the contract.

If you don’t have a justifiable cause for terminating the contract, then you can be liable for all costs up to the time you fire them.

The costs can include lost opportunity if the builder can show that they turned away work due their commitment to your job.

The builder might be entitled to some profit on work up to the point where you fire them, but that’s included in the costs for work and materials completed at retail price.

It’s never ideal to have to fire a contractor, but if you get to the point where you can’t deal with them anymore, it is what it is; you fire them and deal with the consequences.

 

[Bperry]

You can fire anyone at any time without a reason.

Without a good reason, you have to pay all of their costs up to the point where you fire them.

They can submit a bill for their expenses and you can negotiate that.

Yes, that’s true. My assumption was that he wanted to fire them and not only not pay any more money but get some of what he paid back.

 

[Newdude]

It’s never ideal to have to fire a contractor, but if you get to the point where you can’t deal with them anymore, it is what it is; you fire them and deal with the consequences.

Exactly. And I thought of it 52 times a day, but luckily a cooler head prevailed each time.

 

[JamesW]

Yes, that’s true. My assumption was that he wanted to fire them and not only not pay any more money but get some of what he paid back.

At this point, we only have one side of the story and the side we have is thin on details.

Maybe the builder has a completely different story.

In a court case, both sides need to present their case so that a judge can decide what's what.

So, we are speculating on exactly what the story is and whether there are valid reasons to cancel or if the client just does not like the builder for whatever reason.

At the end of the day, the client has to decide what to do, all we can do is give opinions.

 

[Texas Ranger]

You should have the new contractors verify all work up to the present time to make sure that it is good quality including pressure testing the plumbing before you agree to a final settlement.

The lack of warranty is a significant loss of value and I would require a significant discount to the value of work completed so far.

Maybe subtract 20% for the lack of warranty.

Also, a builder cannot just say that there will be no warranty on their work.

Any work automatically comes with an implied warranty.

If a defect is found at any time, the builder is responsible for the cost to remedy the defect.

If you agree to accept the work "as-is" with no warranty, then that can absolve them of warranty responsibility, but you should require a big discount to do so.

Yes, I’m working on the warranty part. That’s a huge investment and not something I’m willing to walk away from. Issue is when I terminate them, how do I get the warranty enforced? Believe me, they want all the money but yet have no responsibilities.

 

[JamesW]

Issue is when I terminate them, how do I get the warranty enforced?

Other than a lawsuit, probably not much you can do.

That's why you will probably have to accept it "As-Is" with no warranty, but I would want a substantial discount to agree to that and only after you get the work independently certified to be of good quality.

 

[Bperry]

Yes, I’m working on the warranty part. That’s a huge investment and not something I’m willing to walk away from. Issue is when I terminate them, how do I get the warranty enforced? Believe me, they want all the money but yet have no responsibilities.

Realistically, you’ll be in the hole canceling the contract. Wire the you’ll have a hole in the backyard for a very long time with no water in it, or you’ll be in the hole financially with lawyers and contract disputes. It’s gonna be bad bad either way. Best advice in my opinion is to let them finish unless there’s something wrong with the build quality.

 

[Noreaster]

I see we are hitting people below the belt today. Thanks for the heads up.

It was an innocent example, sir!

 

[Newdude]

was an innocent example, sir!

Jokes aside, it was hands down my favorite screw-up because the new kid made a rookie mistake and it was a 5 min fix. It was also real nice that the crew boss didn't need the hand holding to understand it like every other crew seemed to need after their screw ups.

We had a laugh, and he fixed it right away. It didn't take the excavator coming back like when they dug too small of a deep end, or when the excavator had to come back *again* to break off and remove the concrete wall that they poured for the wrong stairs.

@Texas Ranger , I feel ya. Believe me I FEEL ya.

 

[ajw22]

The judge will think to themselves that nobody gets anything done quickly or cheap these days, and rarely with the proper parts, as they side with PB.

You can only hope you get a judge who has a pool.

 

[JamesW]

You can only hope you get a judge who has a pool.

Even if they don’t have a pool, they have probably dealt with a contractor that aggravated and frustrated them.

Maybe a kitchen remodel where the contractor did the demolition and then disappeared for a week leaving you with no kitchen and a giant mess.

 

[Newdude]

Even if they don’t have a pool, they have probably dealt with a contractor that aggravated and frustrated them.

This is where it's anyone's guess. Does the judge feel your pain having gone through similar, or tell you to suck it up all Judge Judy like because they had to also ?

 

[JamesW]

It’s really a case-by-case basis.

It depends on if the conduct is seen to be industry standard or egregious and outrageous.

Sometimes, you have a personality conflict and you just don’t like or trust the contractor.

If their conduct is not especially bad in an obvious way, then you have to make a reasonable attempt to negotiate a settlement with the builder that both parties feel is fair under the circumstances.

In this case, it does not seem that the client is alleging that the conduct or performance is egregious and outrageous in a way that could be demonstrated to a third party.