New quote with UV sanitizer and other questionable items

[Squareknot]

Hello everybody,

We are in the planning stages for a 12X24 rectangular pool with spa. The pool is a little under 8000 gallons and with spa total is 8500 gallons. Will be chlorine. The primary pump is a pentair intelliflo 3hp VS, the quote lists a feature pump that is a 2hp Whisperflow. It will have a cartridge filter, and the quote has an inline chlorinator and pentair UV sanitizer. The decking will be Koolcote. It will also have 2 skimmers.

From what I have learned so far, the UV sanitizer is not needed. I'm not clear on the chlorinator, but have read about the Stenner pumps, and would like to get the Econ T.

My first question is what would you change in this equipment set-up?

I don't know if this is right, but I would get rid of the UV sanitizer and inline chlorinator and have the Stenner pump installed.

Thanks in advance.

 

[YippeeSkippy]

I'd get rid of the UV, the inline chlorinator and get a Salt Water Chlorinator (SWG) instead. For small pools you'll have no problems with a SWG.
IMO a Stenner (or any brand) chlorine pump still requires too much attention to be attractive to me. I still wouldn't want to have to lug home chlorine and fill a tank. Maintenance is often an issue also. Why bother when that SWG is so easy?

@Jimrahbe can they avoid the second "feature" pump for the spa with that 3hp Intellilflo?

Maddie

 

[Jimrahbe]

Sq.-Not,

What is the feature pump for??

The IntelliFlo is the "Gold Standard" of pool pumps. I always recommend two skimmers.

How do you plan switching between the Pool mode and Spa mode??

How big a cartridge filter are you getting?

I would dump the UV... Most pool builders have never even heard of a Stenner pump, much less installed one..

I too would go with a saltwater pool... I have three of them and would just as soon fill them in as not have them be saltwater.

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[Squareknot]

Thanks for the replies.

I guess the feature pump is for the spa. Not sure if the primary pump can control both. The filter just says it is for 320 sqft.

I'm not sure how I would switch between pool and spa modes. What are the options?

You are right, the pool designer was not familiar with the Stenner pump, he recommended a pentair intellichem product.

For some reason in our area, central Texas, the pool builders do not want to build salt water pools. We will have Koolcote, not sure if they are worried about corrosion or if it is the composition of the water in our area that makes SWGs not recommended. I would like to know but I never get a straight answer.

Thanks again

 

[SinCityCJ]

As stated above, dump the auto chlorination and UV. It’s your pool, tell them you want SWG. Read up on them here on TFP.

Which Pentair Automation? The Intellicenter is your best bet, for flexible & independent control of the pumps.

 

[setsailsoon]

sq,

A few questions and comments:

• Do you have fountains or something like that? You've got a LOT of horsepower for the pool size. Other than the initial cost it won't matter on the VS pump since it's variable hp really but just wondering why PB thinks it's needed. My 12800 gal pool/spa runs very well with half that hp. Is there something in the system that has unusually high system pressure drop like pad a long way from the pool or something?
• 2 hp for a 500 gal spa could be the booster for venturi bubbles but that's twice the size of my 800 gal spa that works great.
• I agree with others here and would get rid of UV, and just make it a salt pool. Waaay easier to operate and water feel is much better. Salt pools aren't like ocean water. They only have 10% of the salt in sea water. Concerns about corrosion or other problems are based on ignorance not science. Lugging jugs of liquid chlorine is a pain regardless of how you add it to the pool.
• I'm still curious about the answer to Jim's question on how you're going to control the pool? What brand and model? Or is it a manual pool?
• I would add a heater or at least have room on the pad and room in the filter discharge piping to connect the additional piping so you can add it later without a lot of fanfare. Even if you don't use it for the pool you're gonna want it for the spa.
• Consider adding a robot cleaner. We love ours and pool is cleaner than ever.

I hope this helps.

Chris

 

[Squareknot]

Chris,

Thanks for the reply. Not sure why the pump is so big. The spa is 650 gallons that is slightly above the pool and waterfalls into the pool. Topography is all relatively flat, so no big elevation rise or drop. I'm assuming this is a shared pool and spa system. It will have a pentair PSL4 controller.

It will also have a pentair 400K btu heater.

I will definitely get a robot cleaner.

Thanks for the help. I agree about getting rid of the inline chlorinator and UV and getting a SWG. I'm just a little gun shy and don't know why in our area it is not common to have salt water pool.

 

[Jimrahbe]

Sq.

Not trying to throw cold water on your parade, but the "L" in PSL4 stands for "lite" as in the kind of salad dressing that no one wants to eat..

It has no load center for your circuit breakers
It has a max of 4 programs and only 2 feature circuits
It is a cheap version of a real EasyTouch system.
I guarantee that you will not be happy with it.

Check out this thread... Pentair Pool Automation issues

I know it is easy for me to spend your money, but better to cry once when you buy something, than cry every time you use it..

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[Squareknot]

Jim,

Thanks for the info. I actually did read most of that thread earlier this morning. What specific controller would you recommend? I'm already thinking I will change the contract to get rid of the inline chlorinator and UV, and replace with a SWG.

Our water supply has a hardness of 11 grains per gallon (188.1 ppm), and iron is .023 ppm. Alkalinity is 155 ppm.

I wonder if it is hard to control TA, CH, and CSI with our water. Below is the response I got from our builder:

"There is a couple of reasons why builders are shying away from using SWGs on their pools. First, salt tends to be extremely corrosive on the equipment, especially the heater manifold. Additionally, some builders claim that SWGs stain/yellow white plaster pools. This cannot be directly correlated to salt, however the staining seems to be more prevalent with a SWG pool. "

Let me know what you think regarding the specific controller you would recommend, and type of filter you would get with a SWG.

And give it to me straight, I appreciate the information. I would rather pay now to avoid future problems.

Jay

 

[mknauss]

Our water supply has a hardness of 11 grains per gallon (188.1 ppm), and iron is .023 ppm. Alkalinity is 155 ppm.

Do you use a whole house water softener?
My fill water is 16 gpg with 130 ppm TA. I do use softened water for make up (now) but did not for 5 years. We get 0 rain and have large amounts of evaporation. So water exchange was necessary every 16 months or so due to CH buildup. This would happen using a SWCG or liquid chlorine.

The real question, are you willing to add liquid chlorine EVERY day to your pool from May through September. Or have a SWCG add it for you.

Saltwater has no effect on heater components. Heater manifolds are plastic ------

 

[Squareknot]

We will have a whole house water softener but it will only be connected to the hot water line. (my wife wants this for the feel of the shower and decrease hard water stains- I didn't want it on cold water side for drinking water and ice makers)

So I guess with our water numbers, we will have to drain and refill our pool every 16 months no matter what system we have?

And I would absolutely rather have a SWG. I don't want to worry about chlorine when we are out of town.

Thanks for the information about the heater manifold, that makes sense.

 

[mknauss]

So I guess with our water numbers, we will have to drain and refill our pool every 16 months no matter what system we have?

No. You get rain. And have far less evaporation than we have in S Nevada. It would be wise to plumb a line to the pool fill from the water softener if at all possible. But with your level of rainfall, you can manage your CH rise.

 

[Squareknot]

Thanks for the information about the water softener line. I will see about having the pool fill line plumbed to it.

After reading information on this site, I'm convinced going with a SWG is a better choice.

Any recommendations on type of filter and specific pentair controller is appreciated.

Previously I mentioned a 2hp Whisperflow pump, but that was a mistake the PB made with autofill on the contract. So it is a shared system with a 3hp pentair intelliflow VS pump only and a 1hp spa blower. It will be pebble sheen plaster and waterline tile.

Thanks to everyone for the information, I appreciate it.

 

[Jimrahbe]

Sq.

Basically, you have two choices.. the older EasyTouch plus ScreenLogic, or the newer IntelliCenter, which comes with a built-in ScreenLogic-like system.. ScreenLogic allows you to control things from your PC, Phone or Tablet. Either will work for you, but the IntelliCenter is new and better.

If you go with a SWCG, you should get the "package" that includes the salt system... Like this..

Pentair EasyTouch 4 System Pool or Spa w/IC20 Cell

www.polytecpools.com

or

Pentair IntelliCenter i5PSIC40 Kit - Pool and Spa with Load Center and IC40

If you decide to not go with a saltwater system, then one of the following would work for you.

Pentair EasyTouch 4 System Pool and Spa

or

Pentair IntelliCenter i5PS Kit - Pool and Spa with Load Center

Keep in mind the prices listed here is not what you pool builder will be charging you.. These links are just to give you an idea of what each system includes.

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[Squareknot]

Thanks Jim

I definitely want to go with a saltwater system, so I'm going to ask for the Pentair IntelliCenter i5PSIC40 Kit that you suggested. Any recommendation on filters? A friend of mine has DE and I have helped him take it out and rinse it off thoroughly. He says the backwash doesn't help much. Then we just add DE to the skimmers.

Other filters may be better. Any thoughts?

Thanks,

Jay

 

[mknauss]

Filters are typically a personal preference. Many have cartridge filters, as big as you can afford and fit on your pad, and thus only clean them once or twice a year. Cartridges should last at least 5 years and more likely 10 years or more.

 

[Jimrahbe]

Sq.

Here is my standard filter "story"...

I have two rent house that have DE filters... When I built the pool at my house I really, really wanted a DE filter and was very disappointed that, because of city rules on the backwash line, I was more or less forced to go with a large cartridge filter...

Fast forward 7 years and I could not have been more wrong.. I can't wait until my rent house DE filters die, so that I can replace them with large cartridge filters.

Plumbing is dirt simple.. No backwash valve to go bad or leak. No messing with DE. My filter pressure is about 1 or 2 lbs at 1200 rpm... Perfect!!

I have a 17K pool and a 520 sq. ft. filter CCP-520.. and could go all year between cleanings, but I do it twice a year... You could do the same thing with a CCP-320.. Takes me a couple of hours to clean..

If you go with a cartridge filter, then I recommend that you have a 2-way Jandy valve (or check valve) installed between the pump and filter. This will allow you to isolate the filter from the pump so that you can empty the pump basket without draining the filter back into the pool.

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[Squareknot]

Good information, I think I will go with the cartridge filter he quoted, 320sqft. I am going to go with the recommendations: Intellicenter kit with swg, cartridge filter, maybe plumb the pool fill line from the water softener, get a corrosion resistant coping, and make sure the swg runs on the high and low settings of the pump. Thanks for the help everyone.

Jay