gunite

[ajw22]

I was told by a geologist that having hairline cracks is common in my part of the country.

The cracks in the pics are not hairline cracks. When you have a crack with a gap it is not hairline. A hairline crack looks like a pencil mark.

 

[TonyTonyTony]

The cracks in the pics are not hairline cracks. When you have a crack with a gap it is not hairline. A hairline crack looks like a pencil mark.

You video looked like they were repairing hairline cracks on the wall. I do have a major crack on the floor.

The pool is 45 x 11, 93,000 + gal. It's a monster. On the shallow end over 4 feet, and the deep end over 10 feet. It's a continuous slope until past the center and then there's a steep slope. It's here where the big crack is

 

[TonyTonyTony]

You video looked like they were repairing hairline cracks on the wall. I do have a major crack on the floor.

The pool is 45 x 11, 93,000 + gal. It's a monster. On the shallow end over 4 feet, and the deep end over 10 feet. It's a continuous slope until past the center and then there's a steep slope. It's here where the big crack is

 

[ajw22]

That looks like plaster to me.

 

[YippeeSkippy]

That looks like plaster to me.

He said in post #3 that he removed the plaster and he painted the gunnite.

 

[Rich D]

Seems to be some miscommunication going on.

Tony,
Did you chip out all the old plaster?
How long ago did you remove plaster and paint?
Did you see all these cracks when you removed plaster and before you painted?

 

[Rich D]

If your are selling the house I would suggest getting at least 2 estimates to repair and replaster the pool and 2 estimates to fill in the pool. Then you and your realtor could decide if it is your best interest to do either at this time or simply list it with these known issues and prices. At least then everybody has the same hard numbers to work with. If you do think the house would sell better with a fully functioning pool then simply document with pics any temp fixes like filling cracks with hydrolic cement and repaint the pool and provide these to potential buyers. There is a slim chance that the pool will hold water and look nice so the potential buyer can see what he/she would have if they spend the money to fix the pool.

 

[jimmythegreek]

those are all structural cracks thats not just the plaster. you have a major repair on your hands that stitching is probably not gonna fix. If you were hiring a real professional to fix this he would drill and take core samples of the floor area in the hopper to see if there are voids and see whats making the pool shift with guidance from an engineer. the fix is likely to be either mudjacking the floor for support and then epoxy bond rebar and pour a whole new floor over the top then plaster. at that point it would make sense to make the pool ALOT smaller with tanning ledges etc. with the pool shifting like that in the floor there is either delamination in the concrete or no rebar in it if its old and thats a huge issue going forward. I know your selling the house and you dont want to spend a ton of money. The problem is you know the issue and you even documented it here with pics. If you patch with whatever and sell it undisclosed you can get sued pretty hard. I was an expert witness in a similar case last year and the seller did something like this and got 46k awarded against him plus the attorneys fees from the other side at the tune of about 35k. You might be better off leaving as is and fluff the price a little saying theres 10k for repairs at closing for pool and its as is.

 

[TonyTonyTony]

Seems to be some miscommunication going on.

Tony,
Did you chip out all the old plaster?
How long ago did you remove plaster and paint?
Did you see all these cracks when you removed plaster and before you painted?

The old plaster was take out approximately 5 years ago, and then painted. There was a small crack at that time. I had pool people doing the work, and I got every indication it was not a big deal. The cracks are larger now

 

[TonyTonyTony]

those are all structural cracks thats not just the plaster. you have a major repair on your hands that stitching is probably not gonna fix. If you were hiring a real professional to fix this he would drill and take core samples of the floor area in the hopper to see if there are voids and see whats making the pool shift with guidance from an engineer. the fix is likely to be either mudjacking the floor for support and then epoxy bond rebar and pour a whole new floor over the top then plaster. at that point it would make sense to make the pool ALOT smaller with tanning ledges etc. with the pool shifting like that in the floor there is either delamination in the concrete or no rebar in it if its old and thats a huge issue going forward. I know your selling the house and you dont want to spend a ton of money. The problem is you know the issue and you even documented it here with pics. If you patch with whatever and sell it undisclosed you can get sued pretty hard. I was an expert witness in a similar case last year and the seller did something like this and got 46k awarded against him plus the attorneys fees from the other side at the tune of about 35k. You might be better off leaving as is and fluff the price a little saying theres 10k for repairs at closing for pool and its as is.

I don't want to rip a buyer off. Nether do I want to spend a fortune on repairing the pool. I would not feel bad about making repairs that was believed to last 2-3 years. After all, I can't guarantee anything, such as AC, would last either.

My plans are to take out the cracks, and reinforce it with rebar, and filling it up with hydrolic cement, and then painting it with appoxy paint. Would you see a problem with this plan as a solution that would last for a couple of years?

 

[String2005]

I don't want to rip a buyer off. Nether do I want to spend a fortune on repairing the pool. I would not feel bad about making repairs that was believed to last 2-3 years. After all, I can't guarantee anything, such as AC, would last either.

My plans are to take out the cracks, and reinforce it with rebar, and filling it up with hydrolic cement, and then painting it with appoxy paint. Would you see a problem with this plan as a solution that would last for a couple of years?

Would you disclose the issues and how you repaired the pool when selling the house? I'm not sure the paint you are planning to use would even last a couple of years but I could be wrong.

 

[jimmythegreek]

Stitching a pool is very different than opening up cracks and trying to rebar them. Honestly the rebar amd hydro cement wouldnt do anything. Hydraulic cement is used as a waterproofing means as it sets up fast and doesnt shrink it expands ever so slightly as it sets. The rebar would have to be tied amd epoxied in way out from the cracks to do anything structural. Best bet is to just open cracks to have room to repair the surface and then paint. Disclose there was cracks and problems. If its moving its gonna keep moving without a proper tie in. I get your angle but to me it's a waste of money. As a buyer I'd rather have credit towards a proper repair and plaster its just not gonna last long

 

[TonyTonyTony]

Stitching a pool is very different than opening up cracks and trying to rebar them. Honestly the rebar amd hydro cement wouldnt do anything. Hydraulic cement is used as a waterproofing means as it sets up fast and doesnt shrink it expands ever so slightly as it sets. The rebar would have to be tied amd epoxied in way out from the cracks to do anything structural. Best bet is to just open cracks to have room to repair the surface and then paint. Disclose there was cracks and problems. If its moving its gonna keep moving without a proper tie in. I get your angle but to me it's a waste of money. As a buyer I'd rather have credit towards a proper repair and plaster its just not gonna last long

Let me explain more what I was talking about. I am not certain how thick the floor gunite is, but the best I can tell without taking any out, it's at least 4in thick. I was thinking, cut out the cracks, drill horizontal holes in the gunite, and put rebar in the holes, which would be across the cut out portion. Then lay other rebar across that rebar, and wire them together, making a grid. Then fill back in the cut out area, you said epoxy, then paint pool with epoxy paint. Do you see a major issue with this?

 

[ajw22]

Let me explain more what I was talking about. I am not certain how thick the floor gunite is, but the best I can tell without taking any out, it's at least 4in thick. I was thinking, cut out the cracks, drill horizontal holes in the gunite, and put rebar in the holes, which would be across the cut out portion. Then lay other rebar across that rebar, and wire them together, making a grid. Then fill back in the cut out area, you said epoxy, then paint pool with epoxy paint. Do you see a major issue with this?

Are you a pool structrual engineer? Can you assess how the rebar changes will affect the shell integrity?

 

[jimmythegreek]

It's not gonna work like you think. If the shell had rebar it would have cracked but not moved. 4" is a sidewalk thickness the average pool is 8" reinforced with steel. Rebar has to go way past where you have good material amd be epoxied in. Without seeing it I cant guide you to a bandaid fix. An engineer might be able to recommend something decent it qouldnt be a bad idea to spend a few hundred to get am idea. If his suggestion isnt bad and feasible with your budget you could include his report in sale amd it would add value

 

[TonyTonyTony]

It's not gonna work like you think. If the shell had rebar it would have cracked but not moved. 4" is a sidewalk thickness the average pool is 8" reinforced with steel. Rebar has to go way past where you have good material amd be epoxied in. Without seeing it I cant guide you to a bandaid fix. An engineer might be able to recommend something decent it qouldnt be a bad idea to spend a few hundred to get am idea. If his suggestion isnt bad and feasible with your budget you could include his report in sale amd it would add value

The shell has cracked, but I am not certain it has moved. What makes you think it has moved? I was just guessing it was 4 inches, if 8 inch thickness is the standard, then it's probably 8 inches. I would pay for the advice of an engineer. How would I find an engineer who has pool experience?

 

[TonyTonyTony]

I have been talking to a construction man about the pool. He suggested cutting out the large cracks, and usng hydrolic cement to fill it in. Do you see any problems with this?

It's not gonna work like you think. If the shell had rebar it would have cracked but not moved. 4" is a sidewalk thickness the average pool is 8" reinforced with steel. Rebar has to go way past where you have good material amd be epoxied in. Without seeing it I cant guide you to a bandaid fix. An engineer might be able to recommend something decent it qouldnt be a bad idea to spend a few hundred to get am idea. If his suggestion isnt bad and feasible with your budget you could include his report in sale amd it would add value

Just to let you know, I have requested help, on Angie's list, from a structural engineer. There were no structural engineers in my area, so he will be driving almost 2 hours to get to me. I am certain that 4 hour round trip will be added to his fee. Hopefully he will contact me on Monday.

 

[jimmythegreek]

That's a good start. I remember looking at your pics. Hairline cracks are concrete aging but large cracks like that are movement cracks either settling or lifting

 

[TonyTonyTony]

That's a good start. I remember looking at your pics. Hairline cracks are concrete aging but large cracks like that are movement cracks either settling or lifting

The structural engineer, from Angie's list, never got in touch with me. So, today I called him, and spoke with the girl in the office, who spoke to him. He said pools were not in his wheel house that he delt mostly with foundations and buildings. I asked her, if he would at least look at a picture. She said he would, so I sent the picture that I showed you. I am waiting on an answer.

 

[jimmythegreek]

Where are you located? Shouldnt be hard to find an emgineer who stamps pool any PB who needs a permit go build one has an engineer stamp the drawings