Winter heater suggestion for Virginia

[ewsb]

Note that you cannot use a heater to keep pool water just above freezing. Burning of natural gas and propane releases moisture and when the temperature of the heat exchanger is too low it causes this moisture to collect which then absorbs soot and turns it to acid. Since the heat exchanger is made of copper, this is a very very bad thing. So the heater isn't supposed to be used when the water temperature is below 60 and you would have to keep yours at least that warm all winter even when you aren't using it.

This is so true. We keep our pool (DC) open all year long as my wife swims 2 miles a day. The longest a heater has lasted is 5 years and normally I have to replace every 2 to 3 years.

Can anyone recommend or give input on the a heaters used my large corporate pools (Asm models?) etc as I have to replace the latest Pentair master temp unit I have.

 

[ajw22]

Try the Pentair ETI 400 heater that has a condensate management system. If you will run the heater in temperature below freezing you must install heating cables so the condensate drain does not freeze.

 

[ewsb]

Thanks - my Pentair Mastertemp 400 just gave up - 5 years. Are there any technical reviews of the Pentair ETI 400 heater? I looks larger than the Mastertemp (I will check specs) so I assume it may need some rearranging of pipes?

We do have a heating cable on the pool fill line (to keep the water at the right level) so additional heating cables are not an issue.

 

[ewsb]

I keep my pool open 365 days of the year as my wife swims every day. That means the pool heater works 8 to 9 months of the year. Since building the pool 16 years ago, I have been through 5 heaters. Initially Raypak and then switched to the Pentair Mastertemp 400 btu natural gas 5 years ago. Feedback from the manufacturers has been that normal residential pools don't stay open all year and thus we should expect a pool heater to last only 15% to 20% as long as normally quoted. Accepting that rather than arguing the point, is it work investing in any "better" more industrial type heater that commercial pools may use or just accept replacing the unit every 3 or 4 years?

Is the Pentair ETI 400 heater a possible improvement? At what cost? The $11k hybrid Pentair seems a cost overkill?

Any thoughts on high powered natural gas heaters with longevity is appreciated.

 

[Donldson]

How do they fail? Corrosion in the heat exchanger, mechanical failure, etc?

Is your pool still saltwater or have you switched to a different type of chlorination?

 

[ewsb]

No saltwater - corrosion in the heat exchanger - another option is maybe just replace the heat exchanger every year?

 

[Donldson]

How are you chlorinating the pool?

 

[ewsb]

3inch tabs

 

[Donldson]

Well, I cannot say for certain without more information, but the use of highly acidic trichlor does not typically bode well for the longevity of heat exchangers. If you're putting them in the skimmer, then that's definitely the problem. If you have a feeder but no check valve between it and the heater then that's also likely backfeeding acidic water in to the heater when the pump is off.

 

[ewsb]

My question is comparing the Pentair ETI 400 heater to the Mastertemp? It would appear that it maybe worth spending 2x the Mastertemp price for the Pentair ETI 400 heater unit if it is likely to have a significantly longer lifespan. (even excluding that it has significantly higher efficiency rating).

Thoughts?

 

[Rocket J Squirrel]

My thought is that if you are using trichlor tabs as your only source of chlorine, that is killing your heaters due to the acidity of the tabs. Post a full set of water test results from your own home test kit.

 

[JoyfulNoise]

@1poolman1 has a lot of experience in this area and the one thing he will reiterate over and over again is that he WILL NOT sell a customer a heater or install one if a tab feeder is inline. He has decades (hopefully I’m getting that right) of experience and he has see more rotted out heat exchangers from tab feeders than any other failure mode …

Buying a more expensive heater will not likely solve your problem and will more than likely result in you trashing a very expensive hybrid heater.

 

[Newdude]

@1poolman1 has a lot of experience in this area and the one thing he will reiterate over and over again is that he WILL NOT sell a customer a heater or install one if a tab feeder is inline.

Pretty sure he also said the commercial properties who used the heater most of the year like OP, needed new heaters more often.

 

[ewsb]

Thanks for all the feedback on chlorine/trichlor - assuming chemical balance etc is as good as any "normal" pool; I am trying to do the comparison between the higher efficiency/quality heater (eg Pentair ETI 400 heater) and the standard Mastertemp and mastertemp HD. - ie longevity and running costs versus initial outlay.

Thanks

 

[Katodude]

assuming chemical balance etc is as good as any "normal" pool;

Thats a big assumption. The folks here are telling that it is not. The acidity of the tabs are destroying your heaters.

 

[JoyfulNoise]

My question is comparing the Pentair ETI 400 heater to the Mastertemp? It would appear that it maybe worth spending 2x the Mastertemp price for the Pentair ETI 400 heater unit if it is likely to have a significantly longer lifespan. (even excluding that it has significantly higher efficiency rating).

Thoughts?

The ETI heater design is simply the same heating design as a condensing water heater - the hot exhaust combustion gas is used to preheat the water load before it enters the heat exchanger. This heat transfer typically causes the exhaust gas to fall below the condensation temperature of the gas mixture resulting in a build up of very acidic condensate liquid. This condensation gets worse as air temperatures drop. The exchanger is made out of titanium but even titanium is not indestructible and so there are typically very specific air temp and water temp conditions that need to be adhered to or else the condensate will rot everything else out. Normally one needs to install a condensate neutralizing filter on the output of the drip pan that captures the condensate and moves it away from the heater body. But if acidic pool water is present, then the internals of the heater will still be subject to corrosion.

Efficiency and quality really don’t matter if the source of the problem (acidic water in the heat exchanger) isn’t addressed. The ETI is >90% efficient. The Regular MT is ~ 85% efficient and the HD that has the cupronickel exchanger is the least efficient (< 80%). Only Pentair can give you their estimate of reasonable lifetimes based on usage pattern. If your plan is to fire them up year round, then the wear and tear is pretty high and someone should be servicing them regularly to keep them running. Just like an automobile, if you only wait to change the oil and tune up the engine when the check engine light comes on, then the damage done is far worse than a simple oil change will remedy. None of the heaters will last if the water going into them has acidity issues.

 

[ewsb]

Thanks

 

[ewsb]

Other than water being in-balance and not using trichlor tabs in the weir (or in-line), are there any other suggestions on how to ensure longevity assuming the heater is running all year. On average DC has 50 days with a low below 32degrees.

 

[ajw22]

Are there any technical reviews of the Pentair ETI 400 heater?

Not many folks need or have them. There have been a few threads from folks primarily in Colorado who run them in the winter. Use search to find them.

 

[ewsb]

Thanks

Not many folks need or have them. There have been a few threads from folks primarily in Colorado who run them in the winter. Use search to find them.

thanks - I will try but found none