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Thread: Cartridge Filtering System Question

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    Cartridge Filtering System Question

    Hello to all,

    We just had a no-drain acid wash done to our 16K pool & spa made w pebblesheen. We have a Hayward C4030 Cartridge System, and the operating needle is barely over 10 PSI. The red-warning indicator is at 22 PSI. So, we are bit less than halfway there.

    Wanted to know would it be a good idea to go ahead and clean the cartridges. Here's what I would consider a chain of "non-normal events" that have taken place that would make me want to clean the cartridges:

    1). When the travertine coping was scratched badly, the pool comp hired someone to fix it. They basically sand blasted all of the coping 121ft perimeter w spa/column tops and pool to remove finish. They did vacuum the pool/spa w their own system, but when I ran the shark, the filters were packed w white sand for the first 7-8 runs.

    2). I built a trellis to cover the AC condensing units that are next to the spa. The dimensions are 7.6' tall by 16' long. My wife hired some painters to paint the entire trellis. It was windy that day and I had no idea they were going to use a paint-gun. Trellis is on the SSE side of pool, winds blowing from S. When I came home, there was bunch of paint [thank God water based] that had coagulated on the NNW side of the pool . This is bc the pump went off at 4pm and nothing was now being filtered...they painted since 9am and I am sure X-Mill droplets went into the skimmers.

    3). Our n-bors Mex Palm trees have been dropping an endless flow of debris from the blooms. The shark comes back packed.


    Even though the filter pressure is good, I am not one to wait and would rather take a proactive stance, plus it makes for better flow and less strain on the VSP. I would appreciate your feedback.

    Thanks,
    tstex
    InGround 15K gal, 18'x30' 3.5' to 5.5' depth w/ 9'x9' spillover Spa, Pebblesheen w/ Travertine, Hayward 3 HP VSP, Hayward C4030 Cartridge, Hayward 1.5 HP for 2 Scupper columns, ProLogic, PL-PS-8 Panel, Hayward 400K BTU Heater, 3 ColorLogic LED, Spa Blower, TF-100 w S-Stick, QC Tiger Shark, Autofill

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    Divin Dave's Avatar
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    Re: Cartridge Filtering System Question

    With the red zone at 22, thats not the indicator that the filter needs cleaned.
    And with your pressure at 10, that is not an indicator that the filter doesnt need cleaned.

    There are several things that determine what the pressure gauge actually reads.

    for best operation and filtering, we recommend to clean the filter when the pressure rises 20-25% above whatever the "clean" pressure is.

    So, I would recommend going ahead and clean the filters and when its all put back together, then whatever the pressure is then, is the clean filter.
    When the pressure rises 20-25% above that, then its time to clean them again.
    Divin Dave,
    IG Vinyl, 15' x 30', 3 1/2' - 6' deep, Oval, ~15K gal, Intelliclor IC40, Intelliflo VS pump, Clean and Clear 420 Filter, auto-fill-disabled, Retrofit LED Color Light, Dolphin Nautilus Robot, TF100 Test Kit, Taylor K1766 Salt Test Kit, Tftestkit Pressure Gauge.
    www.tftestkits.net Experience- it's what's learned just after you needed it most !!

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    Re: Cartridge Filtering System Question

    +1 what Dave said
    Pool: Intex 16x32 15000 gal, 2 speed 340042, Pentair CC320 Filter, CircuPool SJ45 Salt System, Intermatic PE653RC; Hot Tub: 650 Gal SWG Megachlor
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    Re: Cartridge Filtering System Question

    Thank you gentlemen...

    I have never cleaned a cartridge filtering system. I watched a few [older] videos and from my take, here are the basics.

    * Turn off pump [obvious, but will state for the record].
    * open Pressure relief valve slightly, then open bottom drain valve. then open pressure relief valve fully
    * unloosen band in center and be careful w O-ring, remove top
    * remove top cartridge manifold [note exact position an mark]
    * remove cartridges and clean w strong stream from top to bottom all the way around [do cartridges need to be marked to go back in same locations?]
    * spray inside of base to remove any and all debris thru drain hole [Spray inside top filter cover and manifold if needed]
    * replace drain valve
    * re-install cartridges
    * re-install manifold in exact position
    * replace top cover
    * insure O-Ring is in good shape and align properly to re-install ring.
    * Re-tighten ring
    * close pressure relief valve

    I am all ears on corrections or additions, but here are a few questions:

    1). There is a center Jandy valve, should I close this or another valve to prevent backflow, or other?
    2). What are the proper and necessary steps on re-start-up after cartridge system put back together?
    3). Comment: once pump is going, I know to bleed air out of the filtering system. Do I just leave this completely open once the pump is turned back on and wait for a steady stream of water or do I leave it shut, then open to create any needed vacuum?

    If there is a link or video for the C4030, that would be great. All of the video's I saw were of much older looking sytems.

    Again, thank you very much for your feedback,
    tstex

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    Divin Dave's Avatar
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    Re: Cartridge Filtering System Question

    the steps you listed are pretty much right. Its actually pretty simple.

    The only thing I would add to the procedure, is to lubricate the O ring on the plug, and the big one on the band when you reinstall them.

    Once its all put back together, turn on the pump. After water starts flowing back into the pump basket and the filter, then open the bleed valve and leave it open until water starts blowing full force from the bleed valve. Then close it, and you're done.
    Divin Dave,
    IG Vinyl, 15' x 30', 3 1/2' - 6' deep, Oval, ~15K gal, Intelliclor IC40, Intelliflo VS pump, Clean and Clear 420 Filter, auto-fill-disabled, Retrofit LED Color Light, Dolphin Nautilus Robot, TF100 Test Kit, Taylor K1766 Salt Test Kit, Tftestkit Pressure Gauge.
    www.tftestkits.net Experience- it's what's learned just after you needed it most !!

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    Re: Cartridge Filtering System Question

    Thanks Dave...I would assume w a silicone spray for lubrication. Any special make/model? If not, another kind?

    Last question: I do not have a torque wrench w me here. Should I tighten large ring to "intuitive-feel"?

    Thanks again and when I am finished, I will post back on results.

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    Re: Cartridge Filtering System Question

    Watch this video, he is really good at explaining things.


    Cleaning a Hayward SwimClear Cartridge Filter - YouTube
    Pool: Intex 16x32 15000 gal, 2 speed 340042, Pentair CC320 Filter, CircuPool SJ45 Salt System, Intermatic PE653RC; Hot Tub: 650 Gal SWG Megachlor
    links: pool school * Recommended-Levels * SLAM * CYA chart * Test kits * How To Post Pictures * Poolmath * OCLT ** Support your website if we helped you :) **

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    Re: Cartridge Filtering System Question

    This is one of the videos I saw, thanks c-boy.

    Here's the op's manual for the Hayward C4030 Cartridge System:

    https://www.hayward-pool.com/pdf/man...lear-Cxx30.pdf

    It states to wipe down the lower and upper body seal surfaces and to wipe down seal w clean cloth, but DO NOT USE A LUBRICATE ON SEAL [on Page 7 of 12] . Is there a specific reason why?

    Also says do not rely and hand-tightening and tighten w torgue wrench to 150 PSI....

    THanks
    tstex

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    Re: Cartridge Filtering System Question

    tstex,
    I think they mention not to lubricate the seals because lots of folks will use the wrong lube.
    Depending on the type of lube it is, it can make the seals and O rings swell up and they would not ever be able to seal. Predominantly petroleum based ones, like vaseline.

    Silicone and teflon based lubes should be ok.

    As an example, Magic Alladin makes a good lube to use on pool equipment. There are lots of other equivelent products out there too.
    Aladdin Magic Lube O-ring Lubricant - 1 oz | MKM Pool Spa

    I wouldnt worry about having a torque wrench. Its easy enough to guestimate torque. Basically, just get it good and tight by feel should be fine.

    example of guestimating torque
    If a 75 pound kid is hanging from the end a tree branch which is 2 feet long, then there is 150 ft. lbs being applied to the opposite end of the tree limb.
    If a 350 lb man puts all of his weight onto 2 foot long wrench, then the torque is about 350 ft lbs.
    Divin Dave,
    IG Vinyl, 15' x 30', 3 1/2' - 6' deep, Oval, ~15K gal, Intelliclor IC40, Intelliflo VS pump, Clean and Clear 420 Filter, auto-fill-disabled, Retrofit LED Color Light, Dolphin Nautilus Robot, TF100 Test Kit, Taylor K1766 Salt Test Kit, Tftestkit Pressure Gauge.
    www.tftestkits.net Experience- it's what's learned just after you needed it most !!

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    Re: Cartridge Filtering System Question

    Done - had my wife pick-up some O-ring lubricant and cartridge spray cleaner from a pool supply company on her way home from running some errands...great timing

    I'll post results soon - thanks again, tstex

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    Re: Cartridge Filtering System Question

    *************************UPDATE - JOB DONE*************************

    As promised, finished the job, but two things that really surprised me.

    One, sas I was getting ready take off the clamp, the nut on the bolt was hand loose!!!! WTX! I could actually undo it the rest of the way w out a tool. I guess the clamp was on tight enough to keep the two halves together. I need to find out how it got that way?

    Opened her up and the cartridges were dirty except one of them was semi-white at the top. Opened the drain plug, then took out cartridges.

    First hosed the cartridges off enough to removed 95% of the visual dirt. Then applied a "spray and rinse " and then hosed them down real well. I stopped when the water coming out was clear. Took a good hr + for all four of them.

    The bottom had a lot of pebble tech stones inside [about 2-3 pill containers worth]. After getting them all out, I hosed the rest down well. then the top half too.

    Took off the large seal and wiped down the bottom and top halves where the seal would go. Then used a pool silicone on large seal and drain o-ring and installed both, drain tightend.

    Cleaned the manifold well, then installed cartridges and replaced manifold. Put top half back on as directions stated and turned it about 1" to get a good tight seal and bite. Replaced clamp and tightened nut to get a good fit.

    Turned breaker back on for both pumps, primed VSP and cranked her up. Purged air from Filter and got her running back to normal w no leaks or issues.

    Here's interesting point #2. The pressure was 10.1 PSI before I started, and it read 10.0 PSI afterwards. Although the filters were dirty looking, they did not have any major debris in them. The gauge did read 0 when I had the top off, so it's working. Is this typical?

    So, based on prior comments. if 10.0 is optimal, a 20-25% range would be 12 - 12.5 when I need to change it next.

    Thanks again for everyone's feedback,
    tstex

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    Divin Dave's Avatar
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    Re: Cartridge Filtering System Question

    Everything sounds good. Nothing to cleaning one of them really.
    One thing about very big filters like you have. It takes quite a while, even with dirty cartridges for the pressure to rise to the recommendation for cleaning them.
    And yes, you will want to clean them again when it gets to be about 12. That would be 20 increase.

    I have very large cartridge too, and I have never seen my pressure rise by more than about 15 %. But I clean them once a year anyway, whether they need it or not.

    Also just to mention, since you have a VS pump, always check your filter pressure as the same pump speed. Changing speeds will change the pressure.
    Divin Dave,
    IG Vinyl, 15' x 30', 3 1/2' - 6' deep, Oval, ~15K gal, Intelliclor IC40, Intelliflo VS pump, Clean and Clear 420 Filter, auto-fill-disabled, Retrofit LED Color Light, Dolphin Nautilus Robot, TF100 Test Kit, Taylor K1766 Salt Test Kit, Tftestkit Pressure Gauge.
    www.tftestkits.net Experience- it's what's learned just after you needed it most !!

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    Re: Cartridge Filtering System Question

    Thanks Dave..good point on pressure reading w VSP. I always taking reading about 1 min after start up which pump is at max RPM's and slows down at 3 min.
    At high speed it's going to give the highest case reading and I'll use that.

    I agree on cleaning min of 1 per yr...I'll teach my daughters how to clean them next time..I open & close, they hose them ..works for me

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    Re: Cartridge Filtering System Question

    what is a "no drain acid wash" very curious

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    Re: Cartridge Filtering System Question

    It's a situation where they lower the pH in a pool to extremely low levels, usually in attempt to remove staining, scaling or mottling of the plaster based finish.
    TFP Moderator
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    Re: Cartridge Filtering System Question

    Quote Originally Posted by sharonstein View Post
    what is a "no drain acid wash" very curious
    Patrick B nailed what they are trying to achieve. I was informed that "no drain acid wash" is where they lower the TA to zero, with Muratic Acid at a rate of 1 Gal/2000 Gal of pool water. The TA has to be lowered slowly so you can measure it and not go below 0 or a (-) TA bc once it's negative, there is no way to effectively measure how far below 0 the TA would be. Circulation pumps are added to the pool and run independent of the pool equipment, which if you did, would destroy your equipment. I turned off all the pump breakers.

    Once the results you want are achieved, then Sodium BiCarbonate is added to neutralize the acid. We did this after running the independent pumps for 8-9 days, ran them again 1 more night and did another reading...we were good to go on switching back to the pool equipment and clear-up the cloudy water.

    All-in-all, the results were pretty good and they are coming back in early Oct to determine how the curing process continues.
    InGround 15K gal, 18'x30' 3.5' to 5.5' depth w/ 9'x9' spillover Spa, Pebblesheen w/ Travertine, Hayward 3 HP VSP, Hayward C4030 Cartridge, Hayward 1.5 HP for 2 Scupper columns, ProLogic, PL-PS-8 Panel, Hayward 400K BTU Heater, 3 ColorLogic LED, Spa Blower, TF-100 w S-Stick, QC Tiger Shark, Autofill

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    Re: Cartridge Filtering System Question

    Quote Originally Posted by Divin Dave View Post
    I have very large cartridge too, and I have never seen my pressure rise by more than about 15 %. But I clean them once a year anyway, whether they need it or not.
    Hi tstex. +1 to what DD says. I have a slightly larger pool and a slightly larger C5030 cartridge filter. In the last 4 months of usage, my pressure has not increased at all. I expect to clean my filter once a year, whether it needs it or not!
    23' x 37' IG 18.5k gallon SWG w/ raised spa, Build Thread -->Here
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    Re: Cartridge Filtering System Question

    Good to hear from you Jay...we need to hook-up for lunch or breakfast sometime since we are almost n-bors....we live 2 miles SSE of I-10 & Hwy 6

    My filters were dirty except for one filter had a very sm area that was partially white. In the bottom of the lower half, a lot of pebblesheen stones...I would guess this is typical.

    Feels much better when you just clean your filters...I keep the skimmer baskets clean and the pumps f-baskets too.

    Looks like we are in for some HOT WEATHER over the next 10 days w high-pressure cell moving our way from the west..supposed to hit mid to hi 90's next week. wished I would have invested in a chiller.

    Have a good one,
    tstex
    InGround 15K gal, 18'x30' 3.5' to 5.5' depth w/ 9'x9' spillover Spa, Pebblesheen w/ Travertine, Hayward 3 HP VSP, Hayward C4030 Cartridge, Hayward 1.5 HP for 2 Scupper columns, ProLogic, PL-PS-8 Panel, Hayward 400K BTU Heater, 3 ColorLogic LED, Spa Blower, TF-100 w S-Stick, QC Tiger Shark, Autofill

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    Re: Cartridge Filtering System Question

    Just a little information on lube from Hayward. Our testing of lube has been extensive and we recommend only a Silicone based lube. Aladdin's red tube lube is 100% silicone lube. We have found problems with many of the lubes on the market. Just my 2 cents.
    Hayward Pool Tech
    80+ Years of Technologically Advanced Pool Product Manufacturing
    poolside@haywardnet.com

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    Re: Cartridge Filtering System Question

    Thanks...I bought the silicone lubricant and it was labeled as Leslie's Pool & Spa Lube, but the manufacturer per their web is Aladdin... same everything but name.
    InGround 15K gal, 18'x30' 3.5' to 5.5' depth w/ 9'x9' spillover Spa, Pebblesheen w/ Travertine, Hayward 3 HP VSP, Hayward C4030 Cartridge, Hayward 1.5 HP for 2 Scupper columns, ProLogic, PL-PS-8 Panel, Hayward 400K BTU Heater, 3 ColorLogic LED, Spa Blower, TF-100 w S-Stick, QC Tiger Shark, Autofill

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