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Thread: Chlorine OUtput Level for SWG?

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    Chlorine OUtput Level for SWG?

    I think my SWG (Aquarite) cell may be going out. It is 6 years old, so maybe its time is up. I'm having trouble maintaining chlorine levels in the pool. The cell has been recently cleaned, and I recently did a full algae kill, so I don't think that is the issue. I tested the water coming out of the return lines, and am only getting about 2.5 ppm Cl, which seems really low (the pool is currently at 0.5 ppm, before I added bleach). I have not measured it before, so I am not sure what it should be, and I can't find any published specs. The SWG is set at 90%.

    Does anyone know what level of Chlorine should be in the return water?
    15,000 gallon IG pebble pool/spa | Pentair 400k BTU heater | Pentair cartridge filter | Goldline AquaRite SWG T-Cell-15
    Pentair IntelliFlo Variable Speed Pump | 3 Pentair Whisperflo pumps (1-2 HP) | Hayward Aquabot | Pentair Intellitouch controls

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    robdac's Avatar
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    Re: Chlorine OUtput Level for SWG?

    I thought the same thing about mine. Then I did an Overnight Chlorine Loss Test and discovered that I had an algae outbreak instead. I SLAMed the pool and everything has been fine for two months. Make sure that's not your problem first.
    11K gal IG screened-in plaster pool w/ spa
    pentair 150 cartridge filter, Pentair Intelliflow VS pump,
    Aquarite AQR15 SWG, AquaCal Heatwave Heat Pump, TF-100 test kit

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    Re: Chlorine OUtput Level for SWG?

    If the return water is higher than the bulk pool water then the SWG is making chlorine.

    Push the diagnostic button while the system is running at 100% and post the results.

    Post all pool chem test results.
    16k gal plaster with raised spa, Jandy DEV60 filter, 2 HP 2-speed SHPF Jandy Stealth pump
    Hayward Aqua Rite T-15 SWCG, Jandy LXi 400k BTU NG heater, 350 sq.ft. of Sun Star solar panels, TF-100 Test Kit, Dolphin s300i Cleaner
    Test Kits . Pool Math . Chlorine/CYA Chart . The SLAM Process

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    Re: Chlorine OUtput Level for SWG?

    FC: 2.5 (after adding bleach)
    pH: 7.5
    TA: 80
    CYA: 70
    Salt: 3800

    Diagnostics

    3100
    81
    25.4
    5.16
    99P
    -2500
    AL-0
    r1.33


    Thanks
    15,000 gallon IG pebble pool/spa | Pentair 400k BTU heater | Pentair cartridge filter | Goldline AquaRite SWG T-Cell-15
    Pentair IntelliFlo Variable Speed Pump | 3 Pentair Whisperflo pumps (1-2 HP) | Hayward Aquabot | Pentair Intellitouch controls

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    Re: Chlorine OUtput Level for SWG?

    Looks like it should be working with those numbers but it might be starting to fail if the salinity reading is wrong.

    Have you measured the salinity other than what the SWG says? If you confirm the salinity is 2500 then raise it 500ppm.

    Add bleach to raise the FC above 5ppm. You should also do an OCLT to determine that organics are not consuming the chlorine. I have a strong feeling that you have nascent algae.
    16k gal plaster with raised spa, Jandy DEV60 filter, 2 HP 2-speed SHPF Jandy Stealth pump
    Hayward Aqua Rite T-15 SWCG, Jandy LXi 400k BTU NG heater, 350 sq.ft. of Sun Star solar panels, TF-100 Test Kit, Dolphin s300i Cleaner
    Test Kits . Pool Math . Chlorine/CYA Chart . The SLAM Process

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    Re: Chlorine OUtput Level for SWG?

    Also, if you turn it off and back on, it will show you the other polarity(?) on the cell. I agree w/ping though; double check the salinity level. You may be ni the same boat I am and your cell is starting to die.
    22k gal, IG plaster pool, 1/2 hp Sta-Rite Max-E-Pro pump (P6E6C-204L), Sand Dollar Cristal-Flo 300# sand filter (CFII24), RayPak NG heater (P-R266A-MN-C), AquaRite T-15 SWG, Intermatic Hydro-King (T104P201), Aquabot Xtreme, Taylor K-2006

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    Re: Chlorine OUtput Level for SWG?

    Quote Originally Posted by JRHurst00l View Post
    Also, if you turn it off and back on, it will show you the other polarity(?) on the cell. I agree w/ping though; double check the salinity level. You may be ni the same boat I am and your cell is starting to die.
    I had the salinity checked at a pool store I trust They measured 3800 ppm. I have a pretty complete Taylor kit (I forget the number) but I don't think it has a salinity test. What's the best way to test?
    15,000 gallon IG pebble pool/spa | Pentair 400k BTU heater | Pentair cartridge filter | Goldline AquaRite SWG T-Cell-15
    Pentair IntelliFlo Variable Speed Pump | 3 Pentair Whisperflo pumps (1-2 HP) | Hayward Aquabot | Pentair Intellitouch controls

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    Re: Chlorine OUtput Level for SWG?

    16,000 gallon outdoor in-ground 16'x32' plaster pool; Pentair Intelliflo VF pump; Pentair IntelliTouch i9+3s control system; Jandy CL-340 square foot cartridge filter
    12 Fafco solar panels; Purex Triton PowerMax 250 natural gas heater (200,000 BTU/hr output); automatic electric pool safety cover; 4-wheel pressure-side "The Pool Cleaner"

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    Re: Chlorine OUtput Level for SWG?

    I would trust the pool store 3800 and figure it's time to replace the cell. When cells start to read a lower salinity level it either needs to be cleaned or replaced.
    16k gal plaster with raised spa, Jandy DEV60 filter, 2 HP 2-speed SHPF Jandy Stealth pump
    Hayward Aqua Rite T-15 SWCG, Jandy LXi 400k BTU NG heater, 350 sq.ft. of Sun Star solar panels, TF-100 Test Kit, Dolphin s300i Cleaner
    Test Kits . Pool Math . Chlorine/CYA Chart . The SLAM Process

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    Re: Chlorine OUtput Level for SWG?

    What is the significance of the two salt readings on the SWG? If I remember correctly, they are usually very similar (one positive, one negative) when the cell is new or cleaned. Does the difference of 600 ppm that my SWG shows indicative of a problem?
    15,000 gallon IG pebble pool/spa | Pentair 400k BTU heater | Pentair cartridge filter | Goldline AquaRite SWG T-Cell-15
    Pentair IntelliFlo Variable Speed Pump | 3 Pentair Whisperflo pumps (1-2 HP) | Hayward Aquabot | Pentair Intellitouch controls

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    Re: Chlorine OUtput Level for SWG?

    The negative number is an instant reading and the other is an average over the past 24 hours. From everything you have posted, I really think your cell is beginning to fail. 6 years is a relatively average lifespan for them. A new T-15 cell can be had on Amazon for less than $400. Still not too bad, $400 for 6 years, so chlorine cost you $66 per year.

    I would suggest you use bleach to maintain FC levels until you get it replaced.
    chiefwej
    Tucson, AZ
    16x36 rectangular (19k) Pebble Tec play pool/spa, Pentair Intelliflo VS 011018, Super II 2hp (spa), Aqua Rite T-15 SWG, Pro Grid 60 DE, Hayward H400 & Heliocol Solar heating, A&A infloor system, fill water w/high CH and TA, 50 ppm borates,TF-100 test kit

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    Re: Chlorine OUtput Level for SWG?

    Quote Originally Posted by chiefwej View Post
    A new T-15 cell can be had on Amazon for less than $400.
    Watch out for Amazon as the last time I checked their warranty it was for only 1 year. There are other sources with the same price and they have 3 year warranties.
    16k gal plaster with raised spa, Jandy DEV60 filter, 2 HP 2-speed SHPF Jandy Stealth pump
    Hayward Aqua Rite T-15 SWCG, Jandy LXi 400k BTU NG heater, 350 sq.ft. of Sun Star solar panels, TF-100 Test Kit, Dolphin s300i Cleaner
    Test Kits . Pool Math . Chlorine/CYA Chart . The SLAM Process

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    Re: Chlorine OUtput Level for SWG?

    Quote Originally Posted by ping View Post
    Looks like it should be working with those numbers but it might be starting to fail if the salinity reading is wrong.

    Have you measured the salinity other than what the SWG says? If you confirm the salinity is 2500 then raise it 500ppm.

    Add bleach to raise the FC above 5ppm. You should also do an OCLT to determine that organics are not consuming the chlorine. I have a strong feeling that you have nascent algae.
    Looks like you were right, ping. I ended up SLAMing the pool. The first night I lost 5ppm FC (From 25 to 20 ppm). Then for two nights in a row, lost nothing. I still think my cell is going out, based on the low FC production, and the differential in the Salt readings, but now I can proceed with a clean pool. Thanks!
    15,000 gallon IG pebble pool/spa | Pentair 400k BTU heater | Pentair cartridge filter | Goldline AquaRite SWG T-Cell-15
    Pentair IntelliFlo Variable Speed Pump | 3 Pentair Whisperflo pumps (1-2 HP) | Hayward Aquabot | Pentair Intellitouch controls

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    Re: Chlorine OUtput Level for SWG?

    Quote Originally Posted by ping View Post
    Watch out for Amazon as the last time I checked their warranty it was for only 1 year. There are other sources with the same price and they have 3 year warranties.
    they sell a 3 year warranty one and a 1 year warranty one. the one with the "W" designation is a 1 year warranty. same on all the Hayward cells.

    This is also backed up on Hayward's website, its 3 years on the cells that are not "W" or "GLX", those are 1 year. and doesn't need to be professionally installed either per this: http://www.hayward-pool.com/pdf/warr...Reg2-PPO01.pdf

    Amazon listing/warranty info says 1 year, but that doesn't match the manufacturer. THey do say its only 1 year on Labor, but I don't care about that, it takes all of 60 seconds to remove the cell.

    I just ordered a T-15 from Amazon, when it gets in im gonna register it on Haywards website.
    Dan
    9,000 gallon in-ground Saltwater pool, plaster, cartridge filer, 1.0 hp pump, Hayward T-15 SWCG, TF-100
    Pool School - Chlorine / CYA Chart; Pool School - Test Kits Compared;

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    Re: Chlorine OUtput Level for SWG?

    FYI, I went ahead and replaced my cell. Got a new T-15 with a three year warranty from A-1 Pool Parts (ebay) for $399, free shipping, no tax. I waited for the 4x ebay bucks which got me 8% back, net cost $368.

    Being an engineer, I had to figure out what was "normal" chlorine production for a new cell. I ran chlorine tests on general pool water, as well as water coming straight from the return with both the old and new cells. Here are the results:

    Pool Water: 5.5ppm Cl
    Old Cell Return: 7.0ppm Cl (1.5ppm Cl production)
    New Cell Return: 10.0ppm Cl (4.5ppm Cl production)

    This was with the my Pentair Variable Flow Pump on cleaner mode, which is a moderately high flow rate. I would expect the chlorine production as a percent to be somewhat higher on a lower flow setting.

    Clearly my old cell was fading, and no longer viable.
    15,000 gallon IG pebble pool/spa | Pentair 400k BTU heater | Pentair cartridge filter | Goldline AquaRite SWG T-Cell-15
    Pentair IntelliFlo Variable Speed Pump | 3 Pentair Whisperflo pumps (1-2 HP) | Hayward Aquabot | Pentair Intellitouch controls

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    Re: Chlorine OUtput Level for SWG?

    Quote Originally Posted by socalsharky View Post
    FYI, I went ahead and replaced my cell. Got a new T-15 with a three year warranty from A-1 Pool Parts (ebay) for $399, free shipping, no tax. I waited for the 4x ebay bucks which got me 8% back, net cost $368.

    Being an engineer, I had to figure out what was "normal" chlorine production for a new cell. I ran chlorine tests on general pool water, as well as water coming straight from the return with both the old and new cells. Here are the results:

    Pool Water: 5.5ppm Cl
    Old Cell Return: 7.0ppm Cl (1.5ppm Cl production)
    New Cell Return: 10.0ppm Cl (4.5ppm Cl production)

    This was with the my Pentair Variable Flow Pump on cleaner mode, which is a moderately high flow rate. I would expect the chlorine production as a percent to be somewhat higher on a lower flow setting.

    Clearly my old cell was fading, and no longer viable.
    you can also just plug in the pounds of chlorine gas into pool math link. make sure volume is right at the top, and then at very bottom you can put in various items. the T-15 produces 1.53 lbs of chlorine gas a day based on 100% production and 24 hours a day...so you can use this to figure out run time, production etc. just figure out the total lbs you are producing. i.e if you run the pump for 6 hours a day at 50% it would be 1.53 lbs x (6/24 hrs) x(0.50) = 0.19125 lbs x 16 oz/lb = 3.06 oz. you can plug 3.06 oz into pool math. for your pool of 15,000 gallons that equals 1.5 ppm of FC added for the day.

    the production rate doesn't have anything to do with the flow rate. as long as your flow rate thru the cell is enough to generate, its producing the same amount...if its too low you will get the "no flow" warning light. run time and % production is all you need to modify
    Dan
    9,000 gallon in-ground Saltwater pool, plaster, cartridge filer, 1.0 hp pump, Hayward T-15 SWCG, TF-100
    Pool School - Chlorine / CYA Chart; Pool School - Test Kits Compared;

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    Re: Chlorine OUtput Level for SWG?

    Quote Originally Posted by DaninFLA View Post
    the production rate doesn't have anything to do with the flow rate. as long as your flow rate thru the cell is enough to generate, its producing the same amount...if its too low you will get the "no flow" warning light. run time and % production is all you need to modify
    Thanks for the info. I will check that out.

    As I mentioned in my post, I was citing production as a percentage (or ppm), which does vary by flow rate. You indicate that the production in pounds per day is constant. Therefore, the higher the flow rate, the lower the ppm increase in the return water.
    15,000 gallon IG pebble pool/spa | Pentair 400k BTU heater | Pentair cartridge filter | Goldline AquaRite SWG T-Cell-15
    Pentair IntelliFlo Variable Speed Pump | 3 Pentair Whisperflo pumps (1-2 HP) | Hayward Aquabot | Pentair Intellitouch controls

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    Re: Chlorine OUtput Level for SWG?

    Quote Originally Posted by socalsharky View Post
    As I mentioned in my post, I was citing production as a percentage (or ppm), which does vary by flow rate. You indicate that the production in pounds per day is constant. Therefore, the higher the flow rate, the lower the ppm increase in the return water.
    Yes that is correct that the chlorine production rate is constant when the SWCG is on which means that the higher the flow rate the lower the ppm increase in the return water. You can figure the expected increase in ppm of the return water by dividing the 24-hour production rate in ppm FC for your pool by the number of turnovers of water over 24 hours calculated as if the pump were running the entire time. Or put another way, multiply the 24-hour ppm FC by (Pool Size in Gallons)/(Gallons per Minute)/(1440 minutes per day). The T-CELL-15 outputs 1.45 pounds chlorine per day so in your 15,000 gallon pool that would be 11.6 ppm FC. Your measured rise of 2 ppm FC would imply (11.6 ppm FC)*(15,000 gallons)/GPM/(1440 min/day) = 2 ppm FC so GPM = 60. Does that sound about right for your flow rate when the pump is running?
    16,000 gallon outdoor in-ground 16'x32' plaster pool; Pentair Intelliflo VF pump; Pentair IntelliTouch i9+3s control system; Jandy CL-340 square foot cartridge filter
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    Re: Chlorine OUtput Level for SWG?

    Quote Originally Posted by socalsharky View Post
    Thanks for the info. I will check that out.

    As I mentioned in my post, I was citing production as a percentage (or ppm), which does vary by flow rate. You indicate that the production in pounds per day is constant. Therefore, the higher the flow rate, the lower the ppm increase in the return water.
    well if you want to look at it that way I guess, not sure why its important. the total FC put into the pool over the certain time period is the same if you are pumping at 20gpm or 200 gpm. sure, the ppm in the lower flow will be higher, but the amount added to the pool for any given amount of time will be the same.
    Dan
    9,000 gallon in-ground Saltwater pool, plaster, cartridge filer, 1.0 hp pump, Hayward T-15 SWCG, TF-100
    Pool School - Chlorine / CYA Chart; Pool School - Test Kits Compared;

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    Re: Chlorine OUtput Level for SWG?

    Quote Originally Posted by DaninFLA View Post
    well if you want to look at it that way I guess, not sure why its important. the total FC put into the pool over the certain time period is the same if you are pumping at 20gpm or 200 gpm. sure, the ppm in the lower flow will be higher, but the amount added to the pool for any given amount of time will be the same.
    It was only important in the way it relates to my OP. I was testing the return water in an attempt to verify that my SWG was working correctly. Now I know that it was not.
    15,000 gallon IG pebble pool/spa | Pentair 400k BTU heater | Pentair cartridge filter | Goldline AquaRite SWG T-Cell-15
    Pentair IntelliFlo Variable Speed Pump | 3 Pentair Whisperflo pumps (1-2 HP) | Hayward Aquabot | Pentair Intellitouch controls

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