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Thread: Cloudy pool, and I've committed the cardinal sin.

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    Cloudy pool, and I've committed the cardinal sin.

    I went to a pool store, and then another pool store. Forgive me TFP, for I have sinned.

    I'm in a slight panic mode as I have a dozen kids coming over for the 4th and my recently opened pool is cloudy:

    http://i1072.photobucket.com/albums/...l77/poolcl.jpg

    I would appreciate some help - I still consider myself a newbie although this is my 3rd year with the pool. I've made a commitment to getting an appropriate test kit, but in the meantime I'm at the mercy of whatever is locally available. Here's the cliff notes of what has happened to date:

    Pool: 18K salt inground, 4-cartridge filter. Buffalo NY.

    Monday 6/29 afternoon: winter cover off. Water clear, but thick green carpet at bottom of pool. I vacuumed up as much of the green shag as I could to waste, took a water sample to Leslie pools and got:

    FC: 0
    TC: 0
    Salt: 500
    CH: 200
    CYA: 30
    TA: 90
    pH: 7.4
    Copper: 0
    Iron: 0
    Phosphates: 0

    Was told to add eight 40lb bags of salt, 2 gallons of shock, and 6 lbs of conditioner.
    Monday 6/29 11pm: I added 7, 40lb bags of salt, 2 gallons of shock and about 2 lbs of conditioner (takes forever to sift this through the skimmer and I just today learned about the sock trick)

    Put SWG into 'boost' and let it run all night and all day Tuesday.

    Tuesday 6/30 Pool is cloudy. I thoroughly scrubbed the pool. Filter is running 24/7. SWG reports 4100 salt ... glad I didn't add that last bag. I added blue clarifier to a bucket of water and added it to the pool. I added slightly less than the instructions on the bottle recommended.

    Wednesday 7/1 Pool is cloudy. A couple hours ago I went to another nearby pool store. They tested my water, but differently ... Leslie did it with a small chemistry set, and this place used a large dip-stick, looks similar to the ones you can buy, which they put into a computer and these values were spit out:

    FC: 7
    TC: 8.5
    Salt: 3800
    CH: 233
    CYA: Not detected
    TA: 53
    pH: 6.7
    Copper: 0
    Iron: 0
    Phosphates: 0

    I was given the following instructions:

    Today: Turn off boost. Clean filters, add 5lbs of Alk increaser, add 7 bags of Oxysheen, another 5lbs of Alk increaser at night
    Tomorrow: 5lbs of Alk increaser, 1 gallon of liquid cya, another 5lbs of Alk increaser at night

    I purchased $150+ worth of chemicals:

    http://i1072.photobucket.com/albums/...7/poolchem.jpg

    Mind you, I will gladly pay $150 if it means my pool is clear by Saturday afternoon. However, I wonder if the instructions I'm being given are the best course of action.

    While I wait for my TF100 kit to arrive, should I buy one locally from Leslie pools and run my own tests? I know I'm low on CYA and I understand cleaning my filters now will likely undo some of the CYA granules I've added. I suppose it makes sense to clean them considering I just opened the pool and the filters are likely mucked up. I don't understand how my Alkalinity can be fine, then too low a couple days later - I tend to believe the Leslie test as they're using a normal, reactant based test vs. a test strip at the other place.

    Any thoughts and any advice are very much appreciated.

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    DaninFLA's Avatar
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    Re: Cloudy pool, and I've committed the cardinal sin.

    return the $150 worth of chemicals. don't add anymore CYA to your pool without a test kit. Alk increaser has ZERO to do with your issues right now. if you need to increase your TA later, that's fine, but you don't want those. you can buy the stuff you need at home depot for 1/4 of the price.

    the answer is adding chlorine. you can use liquid shock, its just higher concentration (10 or 12%) compared to bleach (8.25%).

    do not waste your money on the test kit from Leslies.

    I am not sure you are low on CYA since you added it already and the test will not show it until a week later. PLUS the pool store consistently get CYA wrong. you have some in there for sure and are good for now. based on 18,000 gallon pool, 2lbs of stabilizer would bring your CYA to 13. that assumes it was at 0 to begin with.

    you need the TF100 as you know.

    you are trying to solve problems with incorrect test data from the pool store and it isn't going to work.

    there is no quick fix to get rid of this by this weekend. you need to go thru the SLAM, as you already know. for now, stock up on bleach/chlorine and add enough per pool math at night to get 5ppm of FC since you already added CYA. the FC will probably be zero in the morning and you can add a bit more to get back to 5ppm


    EDIT: one important edit, I know you said you have kids coming over this weekend...BUT...don't let the fact that just because you have made pool plans get in the way of your best judgment. if the pool isn't clear, don't let them swim. we don't need this: This is why we say

    set up a slip n slide and kids will be happy. get your pool fixed, and have them over again in a few weeks. like anyone needs a reason for another pool party / bbq, am I right
    Dan
    9,000 gallon in-ground Saltwater pool, plaster, cartridge filer, 1.0 hp pump, Hayward T-15 SWCG, TF-100
    Pool School - Chlorine / CYA Chart; Pool School - Test Kits Compared;

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    Re: Cloudy pool, and I've committed the cardinal sin.

    I am so sorry you committed a TFP sin. Only you can forgive yourself.

    As for the pool, I don't know that it will be ready Saturday. The granular CYA you added won't show up for at least a week.
    Liquid will show up with in an hour usually.

    You could get a basic test kit from Leslie's, but it won't have the most important part of the test you need. They don't sell the powder and regent for the FC testing that you need.

    I will let someone else advice on where to go from here. I would say you need to SLAM the pool using bleach, but it is not a overnight process.
    Lisa
    Intex AG vinyl 15' x 48" 4,300 gallons due to skimmer install, Krystal Clear SF pump combo 2800 GPH, Krystal Clear SWG, Pool Blaster Max vacuum, Hayward thru the wall skimmer, TF 100 test kit with speed stir, K 1766 Taylor salt test, My SLAM Process

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    Re: Cloudy pool, and I've committed the cardinal sin.

    Thanks - I know clearing a pool isn't a 1 night process, but could it be a 3 night process? Hopefully, because that's what I've got!

    According to the last test I am at about 7 FC, which feels right - all algae seems dead, bugs are wiped out. The water seems fairly 'clean' aside from the cloudy haze. I'm going back to Leslie pools for a test tonight - I have a little more faith in their test, as their process seems a bit more conventional and thorough. If the 7 FC is correct, and CYA is low, can anyone take a best guess at what the best course of action might be? I'm thinking:

    Tonight I take the cartridges out and give them a thorough deep-cleaning.
    Turn the pump back on and put the entire jug of liquid CYA in, which, if I'm currently very low (let's say 10) should get me at least much closer to appropriate levels (1 gallon is supposed to bring a 10k pool to 30ppm).
    Continue running the pump 24/7 on boost, keeping chlorine high for a couple days.
    Cross fingers and hope things clear up. Maybe try clarifyer again?

    I wish Amazon stocked the TF100, or it was available locally, I'd get it asap and try to do this more by the book. If I can't get things cleared up by the 4th, I'll for sure throw in the towel and find other games/activities - safety has always been #1. But it would be a nice win if I could get things worked out by then.

    - - - Updated - - -

    The majority of my cost at the 2nd pool store was that 'Oxysheen' product - non-chlorine shock. Anyone have any knowledge of this product? The pool store was fairly insistent this would help (I know..).

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    Re: Cloudy pool, and I've committed the cardinal sin.

    If you already added granular stablizer and it is still in the skimmer not dissolved, I would be carefull about adding to much Liquid CYa. You don't want your CYA to be to high for the SLAM.

    Yes, clean the filter cartridges reall well.

    As for the SLAM only taking 3 days, that a long shot. Hard to say for certain though.
    Lisa
    Intex AG vinyl 15' x 48" 4,300 gallons due to skimmer install, Krystal Clear SF pump combo 2800 GPH, Krystal Clear SWG, Pool Blaster Max vacuum, Hayward thru the wall skimmer, TF 100 test kit with speed stir, K 1766 Taylor salt test, My SLAM Process

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    Mod Squad pooldv's Avatar
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    Re: Cloudy pool, and I've committed the cardinal sin.

    Just say no to clarifiers.

    Adding CYA to a total of 30ppm is fine. And keeping FC at 10 using bleach or liquid chlorine is also fine. Test and add chlorine as often as you can. Brush often and scoop out all debris. Run pump 24x7. Anything else is a bad idea. Use Pool School - PoolMath to figure out how much.
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    Re: Cloudy pool, and I've committed the cardinal sin.

    Don't add any more CYA, your first test at leslies said you were at 30. Amazon stocks the Taylor K-2006 test kit (prime) which has the same tests as the TF100, so you could have it by tomorrow. TF100 is a better deal though you wouldn't get it tomorrow.
    8638 gallon 20'x52" Intex ultra frame round AG. 2650 gph Intex Sand Filter. Intex krystal Klear SWG. (newer model that includes copper ion generation) Hayward 1091LX skimmer, Kreepy Krauly lil shark. Taylor K-2006 w/speed stir and sample sizer. New this year, Intex PureSpa - dichlor-> bleach method for sanitizing.
    New pool, 16'x36' (approx 18000 gal) in ground pool, Haywood DE filter

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    Re: Cloudy pool, and I've committed the cardinal sin.

    Thanks - I see the Taylor K-2006 for $55 on Amazon. If this really is as good as the kit that's highly regarded here I'll order it and will have it in hand tomorrow unless someone screams "nooooooo, TF100 is the only way to salvation!"

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    Re: Cloudy pool, and I've committed the cardinal sin.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cowbell View Post
    Thanks - I see the Taylor K-2006 for $55 on Amazon, K-2006C for $90. If this really is as good as the kit that's highly regarded here I'll order it and will have it in hand tomorrow. Question is ... do I get the 'C' version? I don't see any difference other than some additional reactant. Worth it?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Scratch that - only the $55 version is available tomorrow. I'll order within the next 30 minutes unless someone screams "nooooooo, TF100 is the only way to salvation!"
    do NOT add any CYA/stabilizer until you get the test kit. probably the least accurate test by a pool store is CYA. i had three pool stores test my CYA levels for me before i had my TF100. the results were 0, 0, and 100. the actual CYA in my pool was 30. NEVER make adjustments to your pool based on pool store tests. very good chance you are making things worse.

    best you can do now is stock up on a LOT of bleach and start adding it to get to 5ppm at night and in the morning.

    The K2006 is the same as the TF100, just with different amounts of each test. TF100 is best option just because you get more of what you will use more. but with your timeframe, get it. you can order additional reagents later to get more of the FAS/DPD (chlorine test).

    here is a summary of the kits compared: Pool School - Test Kits Compared you will see that the $90 K2006C is closer to the quantities you get with the TF100 but for more money. TF100 is the better value, however you need it tomorrow so that's your option. you could also try calling the Tf100 people on the phone and see if there is anyway to get it tomorrow with expedited shipping.
    Dan
    9,000 gallon in-ground Saltwater pool, plaster, cartridge filer, 1.0 hp pump, Hayward T-15 SWCG, TF-100
    Pool School - Chlorine / CYA Chart; Pool School - Test Kits Compared;

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    Re: Cloudy pool, and I've committed the cardinal sin.

    Nothing really wrong with the K-2006 It's just short on some reagents that you will need of you have to SLAM. You can always order them from TFTESTKITS.NET and have them if you need them. And the CYA tests I think there are only enough for 6 tests. So you might want to get more of that too. And get a speed-stir while your at it. From what I hear, you will like testing much more with that in hand.
    Bob - Palm Beach by San Juan Pools. approx 5000 gals., Pentair 320 cartridge filter (all new guts installed by me), Goldline SWG, 'New to me' Kreepy Krauly Sand Shark, Intermec 104 Timer Test kit: TF-100 w/Speed Stir

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    Re: Cloudy pool, and I've committed the cardinal sin.

    Where in Buffalo are you? I might be able to stop over with my TF-100 & get you off to a quick start.
    16' x 34' vinyl in ground - 16,500 gal.
    Hayward EC-75 DE filter with Hayward 1hp Super Pump
    TF-100XL Test Kit with SpeedStir

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    Re: Cloudy pool, and I've committed the cardinal sin.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1162 View Post
    Where in Buffalo are you? I might be able to stop over with my TF-100 & get you off to a quick start.
    wow, MVP!
    Dan
    9,000 gallon in-ground Saltwater pool, plaster, cartridge filer, 1.0 hp pump, Hayward T-15 SWCG, TF-100
    Pool School - Chlorine / CYA Chart; Pool School - Test Kits Compared;

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    Re: Cloudy pool, and I've committed the cardinal sin.

    Hi Mike - I'm in East Amherst, behind Spoth farms. I'll send you a PM with my contact info in case you're nearby.

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    Re: Cloudy pool, and I've committed the cardinal sin.

    Mike, I sent a PM, but oddly don't see the message in my sent messages. Just in case the forum ate it, my cell is [redacted]. Call or shoot me a text if you'll be in the area, I'll owe you a beer. MVP indeed!!

    John
    Last edited by jblizzle; 07-01-2015 at 04:52 PM. Reason: Removed phone number

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    Mod Squad kimkats's Avatar
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    Re: Cloudy pool, and I've committed the cardinal sin.

    Cowbell,

    -NO more CYA please!

    -$$? It is yours but if you can get the Taylor tomorrow???????? Might be worth it. You can always have the extra stuff shipped from TFP

    -Once you get a test kit test and add bleach as often as you can. Vacuum to get all of the stuff out and clean your filters often.

    HUGS! And good luck!

    Kim
    TFP Moderator 33x52 round AG 25,600 gals Sand Filter 1.5hp Pump - 2 Speed, SLAM, Pool School, Recommended Levels, Recommended Chemicals, Pool Math, Chlorine/CYA Chart, TF-100 Test Kit

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    Re: Cloudy pool, and I've committed the cardinal sin.

    I started my SLAM Sunday night. I'm close to being done. 2 of 3 conditions pass and I'm 1/2ppm off on the Overnight Loss test. Assuming I pass tomorrow it will have been a Sunday - Thursday process, and I could see the bottom of my pool when I decided to start. Good luck, but go home and start asap.
    Thanks,
    Jeff

    25K gal, IG plaster, 2 HP pump, sand filter, Intellichlor IC 40 SWG, Dolphin M500 Supreme, TF-100 Test Kit

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    Re: Cloudy pool, and I've committed the cardinal sin.

    We're going to meet up @ 7:00 tonight. We'll test and bring the chlorine up to shock level.
    John or any mods - lets get his phone number off the public forum.
    16' x 34' vinyl in ground - 16,500 gal.
    Hayward EC-75 DE filter with Hayward 1hp Super Pump
    TF-100XL Test Kit with SpeedStir

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Cloudy pool, and I've committed the cardinal sin.

    You need chlorine and a lot of it.
    Opening the pool this late in the season and that close to planned party was a recipe for a disaster and I have my doubts of you getting the pool cleared in a few days.
    You need to follow the ShockLevelAndMAINTAIN Process and that can take a many days to weeks depending on the water.

    The K-2006 will get you started, but you will need to order refills for the FAS-DPD and the CYA tests soon.

    Please add your location (City, State or City, Country) to your profile and pool details to your signature as described HERE as it will help us help you.
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    Re: Cloudy pool, and I've committed the cardinal sin.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cowbell View Post
    Thanks - I see the Taylor K-2006 for $55 on Amazon. If this really is as good as the kit that's highly regarded here I'll order it and will have it in hand tomorrow unless someone screams "nooooooo, TF100 is the only way to salvation!"
    You can get the same Taylor K-2006 at TFTestkits for $50, but it's more economical to get the TF-100 because it has more of the reagents you will use the most. See Test Kits Compared. Either way is fine. Just want to let you know your options.
    16,000 gallon outdoor in-ground 16'x32' plaster pool; Pentair Intelliflo VF pump; Pentair IntelliTouch i9+3s control system; Jandy CL-340 square foot cartridge filter
    12 Fafco solar panels; Purex Triton PowerMax 250 natural gas heater (200,000 BTU/hr output); automatic electric pool safety cover; 4-wheel pressure-side "The Pool Cleaner"

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    Re: Cloudy pool, and I've committed the cardinal sin.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1162 View Post
    We're going to meet up @ 7:00 tonight. We'll test and bring the chlorine up to shock level.
    John or any mods - lets get his phone number off the public forum.
    A huge thank you to Mike for bringing his kit over and testing my water! We often hear of the kindness of Western New Yorkers, nice to see it in action.

    Just before Mike arrived, I ran to Leslie for a couple gallons of shock (if needed) and decided to have them do a test as well. Here are Leslie's numbers:

    FC: 5
    TC: 5
    CH: 100
    CYA: 30
    TA: 80
    pH: 7.4

    An hour later we tested w/the TF100, here are the results:

    FC: 12
    CC: ~0
    CH: 225
    TA: 50
    CYA: ~0
    Ph: 7.3

    Looks like my chlorine is at a decent level, I'm assuming due to my SWG cranking away in boost mode since I opened the pool. Thoughts on adding any more chlorine? Could it use a little extra kick or would this be counterproductive?

    I plan on removing the cartridge filters and giving them a good cleaning tonight, then adding the gallon of liquid CYA to bring me up to "not almost zero". Mike also gave me some Diatomaceous Earth - we both thought we heard it might be beneficial to add some to a cartridge system, but wanted to run it by the pros. Thoughts on adding some via skimmer? If so, how much?

    Since this morning the pool is looking slightly less cloudy - I'm hoping I'm turning a corner here!

    Any other musings are much appreciated, and Mike, thank you again!!!

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