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Thread: CYA - liquid or powder, or raise with Pucks

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    bbrock's Avatar
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    CYA - liquid or powder, or raise with Pucks

    Hi TFPers,
    I want to raise my CYA from 30 to 40. I'm looking for recommendations if I should use CYA powder or liquid, or raise with it by throwing pucks in a floater. What have you done? What works best? Recommendations?

    Tx
    19k gal IG plaster, built '70s, probably resurfaced in '80s-'90s; Blue Haven Hayward filter C4520BHMB (Filbur FC-1275 cartridges); Hayward MaxFlo sp2302 VSP 1.5hp; 6 solar panels 288. sq. ft. total (142"x47.5" ea.) on 1 story hm; Pentair Compool LX220 Solar Controller; FlowVis flow meter; Maytronics Dolphin S200; AG 300 gal AquaTerra spa; TF-100 & Speedstir; gone: Pentair Challenger 3/4 HP 1 speed; Polaris 280

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    Re: CYA - liquid or powder, or raise with Pucks

    Any of the options you mention will work. There is no "best".

    I would not use the liquid stabilizer just due to the ridiculous cost. And I would not necessarily buy tablets if you do not already have them.

    I just added 4 pounds of the granular HTH stabilizer from Walmart ... in the past I have used tablets to help raise the CYA, just because I already had them.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
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    Re: CYA - liquid or powder, or raise with Pucks

    X2 what jblizzle (Jason) said.
    17K Kidney Shaped Pool Concrete (Diamond Bright) Pool, 3/4 hp 2 speed 115V Sta-rite Duraglas PEA5D-180L/P2R5D-181L (Impeller C105-92PS Diffuser C1-216P), 1.5 piping, Pentair CC100 Filter , Heat Siphon 100K BTU Heat Pump Pool Heater, Flow meter Blue White Flowmeter Model No. F-30150P, Hayward Astrolight SP0581N, SWCG CalimarTitanium Edition TE45 , Dolphin Nautilus Plus with CleverClean, Lakeland Florida

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    Re: CYA - liquid or powder, or raise with Pucks

    granulated stabilizer would be cheapest, unless you have some pucks laying around, in that case go with them since you wouldn't have to buy them.
    Dan
    9,000 gallon in-ground Saltwater pool, plaster, cartridge filer, 1.0 hp pump, Hayward T-15 SWCG, TF-100
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    Re: CYA - liquid or powder, or raise with Pucks

    Tx you all. Pool Math shows I need 26 oz by vol. to raise CYA from 30 to 40.

    If I'm shooting to raise it to 40, from the very moment I begin, should I start considering my pool has a CYA of 40 to base the chlorine additions on?
    19k gal IG plaster, built '70s, probably resurfaced in '80s-'90s; Blue Haven Hayward filter C4520BHMB (Filbur FC-1275 cartridges); Hayward MaxFlo sp2302 VSP 1.5hp; 6 solar panels 288. sq. ft. total (142"x47.5" ea.) on 1 story hm; Pentair Compool LX220 Solar Controller; FlowVis flow meter; Maytronics Dolphin S200; AG 300 gal AquaTerra spa; TF-100 & Speedstir; gone: Pentair Challenger 3/4 HP 1 speed; Polaris 280

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    Re: CYA - liquid or powder, or raise with Pucks

    That would be the safer thing to do, assume you have 40 ppm CYA from an FC target perspective.
    16,000 gallon outdoor in-ground 16'x32' plaster pool; Pentair Intelliflo VF pump; Pentair IntelliTouch i9+3s control system; Jandy CL-340 square foot cartridge filter
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    Re: CYA - liquid or powder, or raise with Pucks

    Tx Chem Geek!

    I'm gonna go get some powder, as it sounds cheaper, when I have a chance. Should I use a sock or one of my wife's nylons to put in the skimmer? Roughly, how long does it take to dissolve? Should I just wait and retest the CYA a week or so after it's completely dissolved?
    19k gal IG plaster, built '70s, probably resurfaced in '80s-'90s; Blue Haven Hayward filter C4520BHMB (Filbur FC-1275 cartridges); Hayward MaxFlo sp2302 VSP 1.5hp; 6 solar panels 288. sq. ft. total (142"x47.5" ea.) on 1 story hm; Pentair Compool LX220 Solar Controller; FlowVis flow meter; Maytronics Dolphin S200; AG 300 gal AquaTerra spa; TF-100 & Speedstir; gone: Pentair Challenger 3/4 HP 1 speed; Polaris 280

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    Re: CYA - liquid or powder, or raise with Pucks

    You can use either or you can use an old T-shirt (that's what I usually do). In the skimmer if you keep the pump running it dissolves reasonably quickly mostly in one day though depends on how much you put in. With this technique, the CYA should mostly measure in the test pretty soon after it is dissolved. It's when adding CYA directly to the skimmer to be caught in the filter where it takes longer, especially in oversized cartridge filters because the water velocity is so slow going through the filter to dissolve the CYA stuck to it.
    16,000 gallon outdoor in-ground 16'x32' plaster pool; Pentair Intelliflo VF pump; Pentair IntelliTouch i9+3s control system; Jandy CL-340 square foot cartridge filter
    12 Fafco solar panels; Purex Triton PowerMax 250 natural gas heater (200,000 BTU/hr output); automatic electric pool safety cover; 4-wheel pressure-side "The Pool Cleaner"

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    Re: CYA - liquid or powder, or raise with Pucks

    Right on Chem Geek. Tx! I like the t-shirt idea as it seems that it would allow less chunks out vs. the sock or nylon. Not to mention tx for the idea to keep the pump running. I assume with my VSP, the RPM is not of importance vs. just keeping it going?
    19k gal IG plaster, built '70s, probably resurfaced in '80s-'90s; Blue Haven Hayward filter C4520BHMB (Filbur FC-1275 cartridges); Hayward MaxFlo sp2302 VSP 1.5hp; 6 solar panels 288. sq. ft. total (142"x47.5" ea.) on 1 story hm; Pentair Compool LX220 Solar Controller; FlowVis flow meter; Maytronics Dolphin S200; AG 300 gal AquaTerra spa; TF-100 & Speedstir; gone: Pentair Challenger 3/4 HP 1 speed; Polaris 280

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    Re: CYA - liquid or powder, or raise with Pucks

    Looking at Amazon right now. Does the Stabilizer (Cyanuric Acid) powder expire? I only need a small amount to bring my CYA from 30 to 40, but the packages being sold are 4, 5, 7, and 10 lbs. Way too much to have on hand.
    19k gal IG plaster, built '70s, probably resurfaced in '80s-'90s; Blue Haven Hayward filter C4520BHMB (Filbur FC-1275 cartridges); Hayward MaxFlo sp2302 VSP 1.5hp; 6 solar panels 288. sq. ft. total (142"x47.5" ea.) on 1 story hm; Pentair Compool LX220 Solar Controller; FlowVis flow meter; Maytronics Dolphin S200; AG 300 gal AquaTerra spa; TF-100 & Speedstir; gone: Pentair Challenger 3/4 HP 1 speed; Polaris 280

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    Re: CYA - liquid or powder, or raise with Pucks

    Though a higher speed would theoretically have it dissolve more quickly, in practice it doesn't make a proportional improvement and the energy goes up much faster than that. So low speed should be fine -- just keep it going.

    CYA normally does not go bad unless it got wet. Keep it in a dry environment (preferably cool, though that isn't as critical) and it should be fine.
    16,000 gallon outdoor in-ground 16'x32' plaster pool; Pentair Intelliflo VF pump; Pentair IntelliTouch i9+3s control system; Jandy CL-340 square foot cartridge filter
    12 Fafco solar panels; Purex Triton PowerMax 250 natural gas heater (200,000 BTU/hr output); automatic electric pool safety cover; 4-wheel pressure-side "The Pool Cleaner"

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    Re: CYA - liquid or powder, or raise with Pucks

    I always use liquid as it is really easy. Never thought about cost, is there that much difference ?

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    Re: CYA - liquid or powder, or raise with Pucks

    GLB Stabilizer at poolgeek.com is $3.63 per pound. Natural Chemistry Instant Pool Water Conditioner at MKM is $20 for 10.5 pounds but this is only equivalent to 3-1/3 pounds of pure CYA so is $6 per pound. At other stores it's even more expensive, but roughly speaking it's nearly twice as expensive as pure CYA.
    16,000 gallon outdoor in-ground 16'x32' plaster pool; Pentair Intelliflo VF pump; Pentair IntelliTouch i9+3s control system; Jandy CL-340 square foot cartridge filter
    12 Fafco solar panels; Purex Triton PowerMax 250 natural gas heater (200,000 BTU/hr output); automatic electric pool safety cover; 4-wheel pressure-side "The Pool Cleaner"

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    Re: CYA - liquid or powder, or raise with Pucks

    Well, when I look at it, it doesn't seem too much more. Perhaps you can help analyze this one Chem Geek. I know I am converting granules sold at Lowes by weight to volume and comparing it to the same volume price for liquid. Here is what I found:

    Clorox Pool&Spa 4-lb Stabilizer Pool Balancer $17.98, which works out to be $0.281/oz.
    Shop Clorox Pool&Spa 4-lb Stabilizer Pool Balancer at Lowes.com

    Natural Chemistry Liquid Swimming Pool Stabilizer and Conditioner - 1 Gallon $29.73, which works out to be $0.232/oz.
    Amazon.com : Natural Chemistry Liquid Swimming Pool Stabilizer and Conditioner - 1 Gallon : Swimming Pool Chlorine : Patio, Lawn Garden

    Not a huge price difference. My bigger question is would 1 gal. of liquid CYA give someone the same net CYA increase as 4 lbs. of granule CYA? My feeling is no. Thus, the powder works out to be the better bang for your buck.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Just used Pool Math to help here.
    In my case, 26 oz by volume of dry granule CYA, would be 66 oz. of liquid CYA, to raise my CYA from 30 to 40. So, yes, definitely the dry is better value.
    19k gal IG plaster, built '70s, probably resurfaced in '80s-'90s; Blue Haven Hayward filter C4520BHMB (Filbur FC-1275 cartridges); Hayward MaxFlo sp2302 VSP 1.5hp; 6 solar panels 288. sq. ft. total (142"x47.5" ea.) on 1 story hm; Pentair Compool LX220 Solar Controller; FlowVis flow meter; Maytronics Dolphin S200; AG 300 gal AquaTerra spa; TF-100 & Speedstir; gone: Pentair Challenger 3/4 HP 1 speed; Polaris 280

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    Re: CYA - liquid or powder, or raise with Pucks

    As you figured out, you can't compare volume to volume or weight to weight because the Liquid CYA product is not pure. Think of it as diluted CYA -- it's technically CYA mixed with lye (to form sodium cyanurate) and water in a slurry. 1 gallon of liquid CYA increases CYA by 40 ppm in 10,000 gallons. It only takes 3-1/2 pounds of CYA which is roughly 7 cups of CYA to do that so only 43% as much volume. That's where the effective price difference comes from.
    16,000 gallon outdoor in-ground 16'x32' plaster pool; Pentair Intelliflo VF pump; Pentair IntelliTouch i9+3s control system; Jandy CL-340 square foot cartridge filter
    12 Fafco solar panels; Purex Triton PowerMax 250 natural gas heater (200,000 BTU/hr output); automatic electric pool safety cover; 4-wheel pressure-side "The Pool Cleaner"

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    Re: CYA - liquid or powder, or raise with Pucks

    So, I found some left over tablets at my house from when I had the pool guy servicing the pool last spring after we had moved in. There was only a little left of one, and then a really small piece of another. Put them in the floater, waited until they dissolved, and picked up some of this:
    Shop Clorox Pool&Spa 4-lb Stabilizer Pool Balancer at Lowes.com

    My plan was to raise it w/ the Clorox CYA, but then I had the thought that in Aug. we are going on vacation. So, why not raise it with pucks? I have not bought the pucks yet, but I did research many threads about going on vaca and using pucks for the time being. I really don't have someone reliable to come by our house to pool sit and have thought about hiring a pool company to come by every other day or third day, but the cheap route would just be to bring it to shock level, leave my solar cover on, fill a floater with pucks (maybe it could hold 4 or 5), and leave my Hayward MaxFlo VS pump on 24/7. I was going to perhaps buy a 2nd floater and try to see if I could get someone (may be a neighborhood kid) to put in the 2nd floater after maybe 5 days (not sure if or when to add a 2nd floater, as I don't know how quick the 1st floater's pucks would dissolve). Our vacation would be maybe 7-9 days.

    This post was to ask people what they think about that idea. But, I also have another dilemma. I think my pool is consuming CYA. Today, I re-tested my CYA. I have not brought it up yet since it was detected to be 30 about 1 month ago. Since a SLAM episode about 1 mo. ago, I have been adding chlorine daily but bringing it up to a level of 7, even though Pool Math showed that a CYA of 30 had an upper limit of 6 for FC. I am being very safe b/c I don't want to lose anymore precious swim days. Anyway, here are my numbers from testing now:
    FC 6.5
    CC 0
    pH 7.4
    TA 60
    CH 925
    CYA 20
    temp = 90

    I don't understand how a mo. ago my CYA was 30, but now I am getting 20. I am certain I am doing the test right, but wonder about filling the CYA squirt bottle. in my TF100, the bottle says to fill to the bottom of the label w/ pool water, and to the top of the label with R-0013. I fill to the bottom of the label with pool water no problem, but when I fill to the top of the label with CYA I'm thrown for a loop sometimes. Should I be filling w/ R-0013 so that the meniscus is at the top of the label? I usually fill until the meniscus is at the top of the label, which then causes the mixture be higher than the top of the label, towards the neck of the bottle. The Expanded Test Kit directions say to fill until the mixture hits the base of the neck.

    Now with a CYA of 20, should I raise it to 40 with the Clorox CYA I have or get some pucks and raise it that way which will allow me to test out the dissolve rate for when we go on vaca?
    19k gal IG plaster, built '70s, probably resurfaced in '80s-'90s; Blue Haven Hayward filter C4520BHMB (Filbur FC-1275 cartridges); Hayward MaxFlo sp2302 VSP 1.5hp; 6 solar panels 288. sq. ft. total (142"x47.5" ea.) on 1 story hm; Pentair Compool LX220 Solar Controller; FlowVis flow meter; Maytronics Dolphin S200; AG 300 gal AquaTerra spa; TF-100 & Speedstir; gone: Pentair Challenger 3/4 HP 1 speed; Polaris 280

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    Re: CYA - liquid or powder, or raise with Pucks

    Just going to start and add the granulated to an old cut-up T-shirt thrown in the skimmer. Then, will turn on the filter 24/7. But, with the lurking vaca upon us and my puck idea, should I just bring my CYA to 30 for now? I am not sure how much a floater full pucks (let's say 4 b/c this page http://www.lowes.com/pd_649738-1772-...+chlorine+tabs shows that 1 puck treats 5k gal) would raise the CYA if I let them fully dissolve. One tab is 3" but I don't know how many oz. each tab is. If I knew that, then I could use Pool Math Effect of Adding Chemicals to calculate it.

    Edit:
    Found this thread How much CYA in Trichlor 3 puck? and in post #10 Chem Geek states a 3" puck is 8 ounces.

    In my 19k gal pool, according to Pool Math, four 3" 8 oz pucks would raise FC by 12, raise CYA by 7, lower pH by 0.62, and raise salt by 9.4. I assume this is if I left them in the floater so they could completely dissolve. The big question is though, if I shocked my pool first by bringing FC up to 16, would four 3" 8 oz pucks maintain it for a 7-9 days while we are gone?
    19k gal IG plaster, built '70s, probably resurfaced in '80s-'90s; Blue Haven Hayward filter C4520BHMB (Filbur FC-1275 cartridges); Hayward MaxFlo sp2302 VSP 1.5hp; 6 solar panels 288. sq. ft. total (142"x47.5" ea.) on 1 story hm; Pentair Compool LX220 Solar Controller; FlowVis flow meter; Maytronics Dolphin S200; AG 300 gal AquaTerra spa; TF-100 & Speedstir; gone: Pentair Challenger 3/4 HP 1 speed; Polaris 280

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    Re: CYA - liquid or powder, or raise with Pucks

    FYI: In a 19000 gallon pool one puck will raise the CYA by about 1.5.
    chiefwej
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    Re: CYA - liquid or powder, or raise with Pucks

    I find the CYA to be the hardest of the Taylor tests to read conclusively, I'd approximate my own accuracy at reading it at +/- 5 ppm.

    That being said, I'm attempting to raise mine from 35 to 42 using the pucks. I plan on doing a "dry run" with the chlorinator one or two weeks out of each season to make sure it is working and dialed in for when I travel, and also to make up for lost CYA due to backwashing. I've got my own thread going on the issue:

    http://www.troublefreepool.com/threa...-to-the-pucks!

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    Re: CYA - liquid or powder, or raise with Pucks

    If you can read a CYA test with an accuracy of + of - 5 you are doing better than anyone else around here. Most assume a + or - of about 10 when reading that particular test. Everyone agrees that the CYA is by far the hardest to read accurately.
    chiefwej
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    16x36 rectangular (19k) Pebble Tec play pool/spa, Pentair Intelliflo VS 011018, Super II 2hp (spa), Aqua Rite T-15 SWG, Pro Grid 60 DE, Hayward H400 & Heliocol Solar heating, A&A infloor system, fill water w/high CH and TA, 50 ppm borates,TF-100 test kit

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